The point of Musicology was that the funk is in song structure, Not in loud guitars, or blurring your race/gender, or humping everybody, but in simple, crisp, funky, song structure. The problem that people seem to be having w/ Prince of late seems to be their lack of depth perception. Yall dont know what youre looking at or listening to. America has dumbed so many down to:

1. Equating youth (the dumbest mofos in the society) w/ whats hot; oblivious to the fact that often wisdom comes w/ age and we get better at living

2. Equating substance w/ obnoxious, overly agressive, stupid people, places, things and ideas to the point that really meaning it is good enough; no it isnt, you just really mean it aka bad american rock and roll, and r & b

3. Completely missing the subtlety, and nuance of damn near everything

If this guy dosent smash yall over the head w/ the Prince formula he perfected 20 years ago, yall got your lip poked out. Calm down, get off the caffeine or whatever has yall rabidly bouncing off the walls and listen. Hes not getting old, or losing his fire, or any of that nonsense, Yall just dont get it and you keep looking for the typical American formulas youre used to. Te Amo isnt elevator muzac, damn near half of his hits yall love is elevator music. Dont believe me go to Macy's. He doesnt need to step up [i]his[u] game; yall do.

JonnyApplesauce said:

That's right. I don't get it because there is nothing to get.
To be more concise and absolute. I don't get anything from his music anymore.
Oh wait....that's a lie. I get a big knot in my stomach and an internal voice asking me "Is he joking?" "He can't be serious".

He said he felt there wasnt anywhere else to push the envelope but I think he found it. Hes never waved his middled fingered freak flag higher than right now. See it?

Some people seem obsessed with talking about how bad prince's recent material is. If you dont like it fine, but why obsess over it? Just dont listen to it.

mschirmer said:

That's a moot point, it has nothing to do with 1999's influence on House, which was the original point you were making.

And 10 years? That's 1992. House was having commercial chart hits by 1986.

JonnyApplesauce said:

The main problem with Musicology is that it doesn't demonstrate what it protests should be the defining elements in pop music.

The song Musicology is the opening mission statement of the album: It's Prince's reminder that there is something very different about the commercial music industry today, and it's not just a case of 'times are a changin'' or the older generation not getting what the kids are into - It's to do with the fundamentals of the industry and how it's a vampiric hollow shell of it's former self - Which is nothing knew in itself, but now it's so pervasive that it's acting as a flood-gate and deterant to the very talent that enables the music that reaches the general audience to grow and evolve.

Prince asks: "Don't you miss the feeling music gave you back in the day?" And we all understand what he means. It's a great point to make and very valid.

Thing is, it isn't backed up by the very thing he's saying it should be - the music itself. The song is a derivitive and lazy song - it undermines completely the statement of the song.


//
[Edited 1/11/06 14:39pm]

murph said:

Do I think jazz and R&B lack passion?

It just doesn't touch me in a very strong or deep way.

It's music that seems to take itself very seriously and can sometimes be humourless an cliched.

It seems to represent the opposite of Prince's ethos towards music.

Yes he took from old influences but he turned them into something new and created a new hybrid.

In a way I felt like he took the snobbishness out of music.

I often wonder how his songs lyrics weren't MORE offensive. And I think it's because there was so much humour there.

He wrote explicit lyrics about sex, even incest but I HAVE never felt threatened by his music.

Most of us giggle when we hear a song like "Head". It sounds impish and naughty schoolboyish. How does that work? What is it that we are listening to?

I'm not even sure what passion is. What gets me is how Prince always sang about having the confidence to be yourself and I think that's where true passion lies.

Doing something that you enjoy no matter what it is.

I think what people have noticed about Prince is he doesn't seem to be living by his own motto.
[Edited 1/11/06 15:37pm]

jilljones said:

That may have been the best post I've ever read on the org... Seriously! If you do ever publish a book on Prince, I'd buy it.

FunkJam said:

There it is right there.

murph said:

People outright say things like "he shouldn't be swearing at his age" "a middle aged man shouldn't sing about sex" "you can't expect urgency in his music anymore; he's past that" "a 48 year old shouldn't be trying to push boundaries". What is this if not saying he's too old ?

meow85 said:

I don't know about that...I myself have never made such claims...However, i think what most level headed folks are saying is that P should no longer be wearing assless pants (LOL)

"Peeps give props (and justifiably so IMO) to Madonna for reinventing herself so successfully over the past several years. But Prince has reinvented himself with almost every project he's committed to tape."

Madonna has been doing a horrible Prince imitation for 20 years. Its Elvis all over again. At least Eminem and handful of the British invasion bands admit theyre jacking the funk. Reminds me of something Ray used to say:

Look What They've Done To My Song, Ma


Hello mama, hello mama it's me
How you feeling mama?
Hm-hmm, that's alright
I've got something I want to talk to you about
If you don't mind
And I ain't mad, mama, no, no no no
Wait a minute, listen mama

Look what they done to my song, ma
Look what they done to my song, ma
The only thing I could do half right and now it's turning out all wrong, mama
Look what they done to my song
Now listen if you please

Wish I could find a good book, I'd like to live in the thing now
Wish I could find a good book, now, hey hey hey
If I could find a real good book, you know I,
I'd never have to come out and look
At what they done to my song

Look what they done to my brain, ma
Look what they done to my brain
Oh mama, it's a shame, you won't believe this, but it's true
They picked it like a chicken bone and I'm-ah, just about to go insane mama
Look what they done to my brain

Now girls, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear that some French

Ils ont change ma chanson, ma
(ooh, not bad)
Ils ont change ma chanson
(uh-huh. Let me see here {franglish gibberish})
Ils ont change ma chanson
(My French must be pretty bad, I better do this in English)

Look what they done to my song, ma
Look what they done to my song ma
Put it in a plastic bag and they turned the bag upside down ma
Look what they done to my song

(scat)
Maybe it's alright
Maybe it's OK, I don't know
But I tell ya
If my tears were money, I'd be a millionaire today
You know, the only thing I get to have right, now it's turning out all wrong, mama
You can't believe what they've done to my song ma, that I wrote myself
They put it in a plastic bag and they turned the bag upside down, mama

Lord, if I could find a good book,
I'd never have to come out and look at, uh
What they trying to do to my brain
It's a shame mama, you see they
They done pick it like a chicken bone
And I'm-ah just about to go insane
I'm insane, insane, mama
I'm going crazy, mama, that's what it is

Lord knows I don't care what they done to my song
No, I don't care about that, but see
The main thing, mama
What they trying to do to me

You see, well they stole everything I had, mama
And they made a million with it, and you know that hurts
But oh, I'm gonna keep on working on the building,
Just like you taught me, mama
Whoah, yes I will, yes I will, yeah

(scat, fade to end)

"Madonna has been doing a horrible Prince imitation for 20 years"

Bullshit.Her music sounds nothing like what Prince is doing.She's more into electropop/techno,which is far from what Prince is doing these days.

1998

Every long-standing artist suffers the same problem. I refuse to accept that Prince or Michael Jackson or David Bowie have forgotten or somehow "lost" what it was that made them hit such a nerve with popular culture in the first place.

I find it extremely arrogant of NouveauDance to presume that he understands the totality of Prince's appeal as an artist. I actually became a fan around the Gold era, after hearing Pussy Control. I love much of his 90s work - in spite of some glaring production flaws.

It may all be a little too "polished" for some fans... I know that Prince used to make fun of producers who labour over their songs for months. I know the Prince who made Dirty Mind would start work on a track in the evening and be all wrapped up by the early hours of the following morning. I can certainly see the appeal in that kind of work - the sense of urgency, taking the initial moment of inspiration and seeing it through, then moving on.

I personally prefer a more carefully crafted piece of work. I find some of his early work too slap-dash in terms of production and too gimmicky in terms of content. Unlike some on this board however, I am not so arrogant to assume that just because a song doesn't connect with me on any level it must therefore be void of any merit.

I wasn't even alive when Dirty Mind was released so it is hardly surprising that much of the record appears lost on me. Does that make me less musically intelligent and less refined in my tastes (I am after all a "Michael Jackson devotee")?

Prince obviously isn't in the same place, doing whatever it was he was doing which converted you into a fan. Big deal. Must we continually be subjected to rants about what an artistic travesty it is that he isn't pursuing certain fans preferred musical paths?

I don't particularly rate Musicology. It's paint-by-numbers Prince. We've heard most, if not all those songs on a different, more superior guise on previous albums.

NouveauDance - Your compost heap analogy would've been funny if it were true. Prince has created some great, innovative, experimental and honest work post-93. The production flaws you talk of on Emancipation shouldn't distract from the fact that this album contains some of his best work. Listen to Face Down live or Joint 2 Joint or Soul Sanctuary or The Love We Make or In This Bed I Scream or (moving off Emancipation) I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, Strange But True, most of the One Nite Alone album, The Sensual Everafter. When Eye Lay My Hands On U, Wasted Kisses, Last December and tell me these don't hold up to anything he did 79-83. They do.

Just because you don't "get" what's to be "got" from these songs it doesn't mean there isn't anything there. It just means it's lost on you.

Well you think Rave is the bees knees Matthew - nuff said.

MattyJam said:

But that's just it. I don't think it took Prince any longer to record something for Musicology than it did for say Parade or 1999. The post 1996 stuff may sound more 'polished', as you say, but I would not consider that anything to do with how long the track took to record, more about the differing technology used between then and now.

MattyJam said:

Again, another retort missing the point entirely, regarding genres and styles of music. As far as I can see, pretty much everyone has stated they don't mind what kind of musical path Prince takes, as long as the music made ellicits a response in the listener that reaches higher then "m'eh" on the reaction scale.



[Edited 1/12/06 6:57am]

MattyJam said:

So do you rate these songs over Kiss, Sign O The Times When Doves Cry, When U Were Mine, I Wanna Be Your Lover, Controvesy, Jack U Off, Erotic City, Shockadelica, I Love U In Me, Alphabet Street, Little Red Corvette, 1999, When 2 R In Love, International Lover, With You, Nothing Compares 2 U, Housequake, The Cross ??

How would you compare them to the songs you have listed?

murph said:

I think that all depends what shape his ass in. If he's still got that cute round ass he used to, I say he can go ahead and wear them if he feels like it. If his behind's starting to sag though? Keep it covered.

PurpleKnight said:

It could be that his albums have become more about work rather then creating something daring and exciting. Here's to hoping that 3121 has better material on it then TE AMO CORAZON.

PurpleKnight said:

more like "uh... uhhhhh... eh."

cborgman said:

NouveauDance said:

Just because your reaction to all but one of the 36 songs offered on Emancipation is "m'eh" it doesn't mean everyone elses is....

Emancipation is a deeply flawed but marvelous record in my eyes. It baffles me how any Prince fan can dismiss the entire album so easily. There is so much on that record, and if your reaction to each track is "m'eh" then you either haven't given it the time it deserved as you are so stuck in your snobby mindset or just don't "get" Prince's music anymore.

pepper7 - I rate the songs I mentioned up there with much of his work 79-83.

Get a life people, Prince will do whatever he wants and nothing you say will change that. You can keep on whyning here and lose your time. You should compose songs then you can do with your so beloved urgency, or you can always buy a sex pistol album, then you will have your pack of urgency.

I got used to expecting a few good tracks instead of good albums in the early nineties. Though he came close a few times most notably with TGE and TRC, anyone that bought Graffiti Bridge and Batman knew Prince was capable of putting out quite a few mediocre tracks. I felt it was a natural evolution since I couldn't expect him to stay at the very peak of his form his whole life. I counted myself lucky he could still whip out a Gett Off or Days of Wild and was relieved to discover he could yet make a flawed but great album like TRC. With Musicology, it was kind of halfway there. I think he could still make a truly great record that raises above simple good craftmanship. It could be the next one or the second one after that. Even on Prince's worst records you can still hear the promise. Just don't expect him to stun you with his artistry with each release for the rest of his life.
[Edited 1/14/06 10:21am]

It died when Sign O The Times did not win Album of The Year.


Ev

DiamondGirl said:

Actually, YEAH, that's EXACTLY what it's like.....bummer, I know!

Atleast we have plenty of old material to listen to!

MattyJam said:

All each of us can do is express our own opinion, I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree. Just seems some people that disagree tend to get all pissy.

Hopefully you don't need me, or anyone else here, to validate your tastes and opinions.





//
[Edited 1/14/06 12:33pm]

FunkJam said:

Considering the Forum we're in, I don't think that's a fair statement. Discussing prince music (or even more reasonably, CURRENT prince music) seems to be exactly what a prince.org posting site should be. I don't think any of us actually obsess over Prince music in our daily lives, but Prince.Org is a place where we can talk about Prince music, about how we feel about it, and openly discuss our opinions about such a minor sliver of our lives. Sometimes, I'll hang out w/ my "football" friends, we all watch College Football - and talk about it. No one accuses us of "obsessing" over college football because we spend 3 hours a week talking about it - as you shouldn't say we "obsess" over how bad prince music is because we talk about it on Prince.org.


That being said....Now I'll give my opinion -- obsessive or not.

Musicology sits on my shelf. Tiamo Corazon makes me depressed. News is good study music. Xpectation I fall asleep too. The Rainbow Children gives me a headache and makes me anxious. Rave is just crap. I can only listen to New Power Soul from start to finish if I'm on Crack.

Prince's albums from 1998 - 2005 are sorta like a garage sale to me. There's a bunch of crap, but there's some songs from each that I'm gonna take, treasure, and put on my mix cd's for years to come. Come On, The One, Last December, Illusion Coma, and East are just a few.

That's why I gotta agree that he's LOST the motivation to make good albums. his idea of funk has changed. Now I still like it, cause I do like the neo-soul genre. But -- Listen to EXODUS - that's raw. We don't get that anymore. We never got it from anyone but Prince. Billy Jack Bitch. Raw Funk. Even Chaos & Disorder had some of it. Pheromone - definetly. The Continental, Sacrifice of Victor, even Live 4 Love.

Those days are gone -- now he wishes to soothe rather than move. I don't see it changing until he starts hanging around some rockstars again - not neo-soul acts and a band that has the personality of a cookie cutter.

Those days are gone -- now he wishes to soothe rather than move. I don't see it
changing until he starts hanging around some rockstars again - not neo-soul acts and a band that has the personality of a cookie cutter.[/quote]

So that's all its going to take to make a hit? Just party with rock stars?????

wonder505 said:

So that's all its going to take to make a hit? Just party with rock stars????? [/quote]

Hahaha, not quite - but at least make some music with some Rock Stars - he's gotten away from that Rock Star mentality. Look at the NPG of 1996 - they were crazy looking rockstars (Tommy Barberella). There was an aura of being on the fringe.

Now, he talks about Shadai (sp?), Saddiq (sp?) and other subdued r&b artists who have no desire to be on the fringe of the music scene.

Jatrig said:

Hahaha, not quite - but at least make some music with some Rock Stars - he's gotten away from that Rock Star mentality. Look at the NPG of 1996 - they were crazy looking rockstars (Tommy Barberella). There was an aura of being on the fringe.

Now, he talks about Shadai (sp?), Saddiq (sp?) and other subdued r&b artists who have no desire to be on the fringe of the music scene.[/quote]

No disrespect...But this business of hanging with rock stars has the be some of the the silliest shit I've ever read on the org....WTF???