PurpleKnight said:

Last couple of lines of Musicology state he was given "what he needs the most.... and thats.... Time."

I think the urgency died when the old Prince died.What you hear now is the new, improved Prince. How bout that? Sounds good 2 me .

I think it was there on a lot of the TRC songs, especially Everywhere and Family Name and Digital Garden.

Now you may or may not like that album and the message or philosophy behind it but it had a lot of that urgency.

And the ONA tour also comes to mind.

Ahhhh, the good old SonnyT/MichaelB years...Morris and Prince and those two guys were on fire.

PurpleKnight said:

New and improved as in his spirituality, not his music. New found spirituality gives rise to more softer, spiritual music.

KoolEaze said:

That's actually a good point about TRC. Now I can't stand that album, but I do like that it has life to it. What's happened to Prince since then? He's gone straight downhill in that regard.

Good point about those NPG mid 90's years. That single scream in Endorphinmachine is more ambitious and urgent than anything on Musicology.

Back when Come was released you punks were complaining oh what happened to 80's Prince. Back when Around the world came out punks were complaining oh where is Purple Rain Prince. blah blah blah. Lovesexy, where is sign prince, Batman where is lovesexy prince etc. etc.

Do orgers actually listen to music at all or just read tracklistings and then go bitch about them.

In fairness to Purple Knight hes making a resonable point about a missing energy in more recent tracks but Te Amo is a different kind of tune. At least he's not just bitching but some of the other orgers are unbelievable. Who is it that says they only own up to Dirty Mind by choice. Is that a joke or is it someone with a seriously closed mind.

There's lots of recent Prince that I love, Empty Room, Avalanche, Here on Earth, Te Amo.

I'm sure the same thing happens with M. Jackson but alot of his new tracks are better than anything he's released in years like Break of Dawn, Butterflies, Beautiful Girl and the last two tracks on the recent 4 disk set.

Bowie is another one who can't escape his history. What was that line in Don't Play me, my only competition is me in the past. That used to be the story with man utd football club too but then they went on to have an unprecedented decade of sucess but thats for another forum.

Mini rant over.

PurpleKnight said:

Its as if he already came huh?

PurpleKnight said:

What you think of as lifeless, some of us call tasty. Volume does not equal passion.

DiamondGirl said:

That is funny stuff, but also pretty damn fitting. Yes, that's it exactly. Prince today is like a horny guy who talks dirty and has all the moves, but then cums and just wants to sleep.



It's not just that. I understand that not all songs are gonna be uptempo tracks with a blistering guitar solo. It's just that with Prince's recent songs, I really don't hear any heart in most of them. They sound like routine songs that he didn't particularly dig down deep to create. Urgency isn't just in volume, but in tone. I don't hear any in most of his new music.

Well, he said in an interview that Musicology wasn´t really supposed to be a great artistic statement and that some of the material was in fact old stuff but he would not say which songs were old and which were new.

A Million Days had a little bit of that urgency I guess, and the rest of the album didn´t really need to have that urgency because the lyrics or content were not really fit for that, really. For instance On The Couch ( one of the few ballads I simply can´t stand...can´t listen to it even though I love some of the other songs on that album..) anyway, that song and its whole theme can´t sound urgent even if he wanted to.
Or Reflection...I love that laid back, retrospective little gem, but how you gonna make THAT song sound urgent and aggressive ?

His music reflects his life, and his life, though it has a lot of tragic elements, probably wasn´t inspiring any urgency in his music as opposed to the "Fuck You" attitude of the NPG and ONA era.

I think the lack of competition plus confusion about how to win in a music world that´s full of bullshit also play a part....I mean how inspiring is it to hear most of that bullshit that´s in the charts these days?

Back in the day he had fierce rivals in all genres, whether it be funk, rock , soul or pop or even new wave plus the aftermath of the 60´s and 70´s ...that is for sure inspiring.

Then again, there´s still great music out there, you just have to look for it. Erykah Badu, D´Angelo, Maxwell come to mind but they are not really that prolific themselves.( Remember TRC came out after all the hype about Voodoo).

Sometimes he wants to show people how it´s supposed to be done but how can you do that when everybody´s either dead, in jail, lost in oblivion, or brownnosing you all the time.

Those I´ve mentioned above are all pretty much in the same genre, I´m sure there ´s still some great rock music out there that he could regard as a threat but then again, his rock side has become to clean, sterile and perfect to convince true rock fans.


With all that being said, I still believe he can surprise all of us anytime.
As seen in the mid 90´s , during the Celly 2002 and during ONA.
And there were also other reminders of his greatness throughout the years, like The War and the C-Note EP or the ONA piano album or the 2002 European aftershows like Bataclan PAris or Rotterdam.

PurpleKnight said:[quote]

DiamondGirl said:

I have to agree, there's definitely a particular 'fire' in Prince's music that
hasn't been heard since The Gold Experience back in '95.

The bpm of pop music in general seems to have come down. What with a move away from dance, electronica and house, and rap and hip-hop as the recent teeny-bopper favourite.

Seems like Prince looks to popular Black music for which direction to take his production and sound (Emancipation era is often said to be like the 90s brand of R.Kelly R&B, and TRC a reaction to the popularity of the Nu Soul genre and acts). To me it sounds lifeless - I think it was Vainandy who said "too slow for the dancefloor, too fast for the bedroom" - It's true!

If there's a beat, I like to feel it as well as hear it - "THUMP, CLAP! DUM TISH!" None of this "pffft, tap, *cough*..... pause..... tap..... shhh pfffff" of modern popular hip-hop and R&B.

I don't think Prince listens to a lot of dance/House music - it's a shame because I think he had an influence on it he might never fully hear - There's a lot of Controversy/1999 influence in House and Techno (as in Detroit, not 2Unlimited).

I'd love to see Prince get inspired by dance music again and start working with electronics, although I think he's a bit dated in his approach these days and sounds like he thinks he knows it all and it's all been done (Strange But True for example was terribly dated with it's production). Things like Sleep Around and the dreadful cover of Everyday Is A Winding Road show Prince up as a very cheesy and tacky dance music producer. It'd be great if Prince found a new vein of inspiration with his production, it's one of the main things that let down a lot of his late 90s work. Something like Mad Sex or Come On could've been really good funk/dance songs with better production values.

Prince, I think, could be capable of producing something as enjoyable and funky as Metro Area or as mind-bendingly beautiful and trippy as Isolee or enjoyably brash and commercial as Felix da Housecat was a few years ago.

An album I've been listening to a lot recently is Chab's Dub Edits and Whiskey Cokes, there's a few tracks on there that make me think of something Prince could have done in the past. For example, the tracks My Memory and My Memory pt.2 sounds like a hybrid of Purple Music, Le Grind, The Line and All The Critics Love You In NY. The 2nd part has a very simple beat, synth roll and guitar lick that sounds like something Prince would've done as the genesis of a 1999 era track, or even a Lovesexy track at it's most basic.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/e...00070HABU/

I guess Prince never listened to that much House any way, but there's been moments, like All The Critics Love You In NY, Purple Music, The Future, Escape or The Line that showed Prince had potential to make a great brand of his own House/Techno back then.

Any way, any house/techno (as in 80s house/techno) fans check out that Chab album, it's a great record


//
[Edited 1/9/06 16:28pm]

Though I can respect the natural progression of a man getting older and calmer, I do wish to hear Prince with a boner again sometimes.

PurpleKnight said:

Because he's damn near 50 years old and a lot of Prince fans have not come to terms with this...If you want to hear urgency there are a plethroa of new artists out there to choose from...Explore the world; go outside and play (LOL);
But for real, I think some fans have been a little too hard on Prince...I can assure you that if Hendrix, The Beatles, Led Zep and ect would have continued past their primes, we would be hearing the same things about these iconic artists...It's time for some Prince fans to come back to reality (no disrespect)....It happens people...We all get old...That's why we have the memories...
[Edited 1/9/06 17:33pm]

DiamondGirl said:

Quite! A bit of fire back in the belly, some anger, spite, vitriol, passion, anything that turns up the heat a bit - TRC had some of that joie de vivre is still being debated today by fans, on everything - the music, the lyrics, the whole package - When was the last time there was a fevered discussion about Rave or Musicology?

We all know he can do a bit of EVERYTHING, but he's only adequate at a LOT, and outstanding at only a FEW genres, I'd like to see him capitalise on his strengths as a musician, using it to produce some great music again.

Really, where can he go with another cookie-cutter R&B ballad like 'Call My Name', or another lazy homage to James Brown like 'Pretty Man' or 'Musicology'.

If he wants to create a great Blues album, or flesh out his currently rudimentary ideas of jazz-fusion, I'm happy with that as a fan - I'm cool with anything he makes, as long as it's got life and ellicits an emotional response from the listener - Just God, don't let it be '3 out of 5 stars' jumble of pop, funk and R&B ballads - Musicology was just another one for the pile IMO - That pile's been getting bigger for years, and it's like compost, it's a mix of all different foodstuffs, but it's just festering into one big unintelligable brown mulch.

That compost heap's been there so long, if he shifted some of it, he'd have room to make his garden grow again, but that lathergic saggy brown pile in the corner just ruins the whole view from my window.

murph said:

[Edited 1/9/06 18:39pm]

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[Edited 1/9/06 18:39pm]

PurpleKnight said:

Damn, thats some of the same stuff I was thinking when listening to some of the tracks off Graffiti Bridge a little bit ago.

I think I have a thread on here about it somewhere.

Yes it's funny for a man who never played the "cool" card.

He just seems to slot in amongst the myriad of "musicians" these days.

Maybe he got fed-up of all with the criticism he got and decided to play it safe.

It's like ALL his rough edges have been smoothed over.

He's cleaner than clean these days so I suppose that will be reflected in his music.

I don't blame him in a way. It must be hard work constantly being controversial and really trying to touch a nerve with people.

AND with that your work will be under a lot more scutiny.

If you DON'T really say ANYTHING then no-one can criticise you for what you are saying.

Look at most of the stuff in the charts at the moment. Bands like Coldplay are being hailed as the "Greatest Band in The World" yet to me they are bland and have very little to say.

Yeah they sound good. They're musicians and they write their own stuff and it's well produced. BUT does this make it good ? Or interesting ? Or thought provoking ?

Maybe that is ALL people want from there music. Something that they can put on in their car when they're travelling to work.

Something that DOESN'T make them think.

gargamelgibson said:

How can he be over it? Musicology was like a continuation of the Emancipation to High era and sound, it's like TRC was just a day-dream he had in the limo on the way to the grammies.

'Te Amo Corazon' is what exactly if it's not another mis-judged lead-single ballad with terribly over-used, coy and unerotic lyrical repetitions fron the big book of Courtley Love come-ons.

Prince has a situation where he can have the best of both worlds - a commercial hit record every few years for the masses and media to absorb along with every other popstar from the past 40 years still releasing records and touring, whilst using the NPG Music Club and mail order to release more interesting, absorbing little experiments that would only be labelled as 'too much self-indulgence too soon after the last triple CD set of self-masturbation' by the music press.

Those flames under Prince's once inviting but fiercely blazing log-fire are looking duller and duller every time he knocks out another album of that sickly, tooth-achingly sacharin and artificially flavoured "melting pot" of pop/funk/R&B with a guitar solo and Linn drum samples sprinkled here and there.

If anyone didn't get it by Emancipation, then by NPS or Rave it must have hit like a 2 by 4 - because there'd been tons of fans since way before then screaming Chicken Little - but some of us were distracted by the CD boxsets and loudly hyped, but silently revoked fan-friendly album projects and releases.

That music of Prince's from 1978 - 1993 is always gonna have a well-dusted but very used shelf of it's own in my record collection, but the rest since then has all too often been something I snort at to friends when I justify why I know the guys music inside out and bore my friends and partner to death with some trivial storyline about this song or that song when some vaguely connected person or song pops up the media -- I'm a fan for life, so the people who swoop in with a cheap 'frontin'" or "bitter hater" comment can save it - Yes, I'll always want to hear what Prince's new music is like, even if I feel with 99.99999% certainty that it will be a heart-sinking fan-prophecised wet-fart, because I know what great things he did with the humble pop song in those shit-hot years in the 80s. Prince was the coolest fucker around, cool because he had musical talent in an age of video fluffery, gender/race/sexuality/stereotype fuck-up themes to his work and attitude that seemed utopian then, but just found memories of pop music's last gasp for air before it got sucked down in the murky still waters of todays quagmire of wannabe pretend-sluts who live with their mums and trailer-park boyfriend or identikit rappers who are so afraid to do anything with their position in popular music, they'd rather sit back in the MTV cribes whilst shooting multi-million dollar videos about how hard they had it on the streets as a kid for the sanitised escapism fatasy buying pleasure of middle-class white teenagers.

Sheeshh! When Madonna starts looking like a profound pop music act, you know the sky is falling on pop music!

Prince can stick to Jazz or Funk jams or whatever, but Christ, do it with passion, don't just bang out another 'please all quarters' disc of warm, flat packet-made lemonade - it tastes like shit, and sooner or later all that's gonna be left at the stall are the mentally-challenged and toothless sugar-junkies and old grandma's cooing at their memories of high-school crushes.

TRC is still a hot topic for fans - people vitriolic in their hatred, people lavishing it with the highest praise and everything in between - That can only be good, only the village idiots are still singing around the Emancipation./Rave maypole, and they're starting to smell a bit off too in their electric blue skin-tight PVC body stockings and poorly sown NPG Parkas - Someone throw a fucking toaster in the bath with them and see how quickly those moonraps they're wearing on both ears melt along with them and their cherished copies of GCS2000.

Jestyr said:

And mellow sax lullabies and attempts at old school joints do not equal passion unless there's some real energy behind them.


Prince: I'm not fussy about where you wanna go next, just bring back that energy. I only like a few songs off TRC, but I love the energy and vibe of it regardless.
[Edited 1/9/06 19:28pm]

NouveauDance said:

Interesting analogy. You may be right though. It seems like Prince has gotten so tangled up in his own legend that his mind's got no room for fresh inspiration. He's said himself that he's done it all -I guess he really does believe it.


Prince needs to get out into a whole new environment for a while; spend time with new and interesting people doing new and interesting things. He's too young to be stuck in a rut.

pepper7 said:

I don't think music needs to make you think necessarily. It just needs to move you. Spiritually, emotionally, mentally, or even just make you want to get up and dance. But if it can't do any of the above, what's the point?

maybe for the first time in his life, Prince is truly happy, and serene

NouveauDance said:

Wow!

I agree with quite alot of what you said but maybe not all of it. But anyway, it is really entertainingly written!

The main part I agree with is that P is in the perfect position to put out that please everyone pop album every few years but I wish the hell he would give us new directions through the club in between. I'd love an all funk or all blues album. Maybe it is just wishful thinking and he hasnt got it in him anymore.

I suspect you will be dissapointed with the forthcoming album as I'm certain it's going to be a grab for popular attention. I suspect on a hunch it will be better than Musicology but I'm also willing to bet that there will only be the usual 3 or 4 songs out of the 12 or so that are keepers. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Anyway, i hope it gets his lust for popular approval out of his system so that we can get some gems later on. I keep my fingers crossed on that one.

PurpleRein said:

I'm not boring when I'm happy.

NouveauDance said:

This is one of the best posts I've ever read here. Great read; I couldn't agree more.



I hate this argument, I really do. So because Prince is getting older, he has to sound boring in the studio? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Passion doesn't magically die with age. You don't need to be a man in your twenties to be passionate about topics. Hell, Prince has a wealth of topics he could be passionate and urgent about; issues that all people have to confront as they get older. His age isn't an excuse, or at least not a very good one.

For a while now, Prince has been churning out lifeless old school tributes and meandering adult contemporary songs. Live, his songs are all still vibrant and have a touch of emotion in them. Why must that be suddenly non-existant in the studio? Whatever happened to that heart wrenching emotion in songs like I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, or that sexy, climatic joy in The Sensual Everafter? When I hear songs like Te Amo Corazon or anything from Musicology, I don't hear any heart at all. None.

I'm glad he's happy, but last time I checked, that doesn't mean you have to be dull.

Prince is a soft pop/jazz guy now. He chose to slow down to a crawl and chances are, he won't change for the better.

Loose! is an awesome song and the live version is hot too. One of his best 90's tracks.