Would you defend a GODless Country?

GOD should stay for all of those who still
don't ever take a minute to think "if
there is a GOD or not".

On NBC I saw a special about near
death experiences.
This guy did not believe in GOD
and did not even know any prayers
All he could remember is the
Pledge of alliegance and
A sunday school song.
This Guy said he Saw Hell
and all of the Lost souls
Crying out for him to join them
Then in his own Voice he was told
to Pray to GOD.
He prayed what he could only think of
Our Country's song.

Did anybody see that?

No GOD No USA
Not even a year After 9-11
And look at us

No I didn't see the special. Are you saying that the Sunday school song and the pledge of allegiance saved him from going to hell?
[This message was edited Thu Jun 27 9:56:42 PDT 2002 by Starmist7]

Try 2 remember when 'god' was added to the Pledge...the Cold War era. This wasn't an original concept to the Pledge and it may be time to revisit this concept.

its called seperation between Church & State...

respect those who dont share your values..."Respect!!"

As I understand it God was only added to the pledge in 1954 so I don't understand what it would hurt to remove it now.

Here is a thought that is more important then the word God. When Francis Bellamy wrote the Pledge in 1892 he wanted to include the word equality, but couldn't because he knew that state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.

The word equality has never been added to the Pledge; why not? Do we not believe that all people are considered equal?

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

As it was originally written my friends.

Well, I think the reason Atheists exist is because the country doesn't impose religion on anyone. The dollars may say "In God we trust" but it's not saying that you have to do so also. Many parents send they children to Catholic schools when they're not even Catholic (something I wouldn't do) so either way, it goes back to freedom of religion. It doesn't even say what God they trust in...for all we know, it could be the God we wouldn't think it is. Well as for me, I think it brings more truth into what the country stands for (whether it's truth or not) but then again, people lie they're as* off on the stand and don't believe in pledging allegiance to the flag, so as for me, I don't know, I guess it doesn't really matter whether it's there or not.
[This message was edited Thu Jun 27 10:04:36 PDT 2002 by Starmist7]

Personally I think it shouldn't be there. Sorry, but for those that don't know better..the "under god" part was NOT in the original pledge..it was put in there in the 50s by Congress. Also if I'm not mistaken this was also the case with the "In God We Trust" on our money.

Excuse me but what god are we talking bout here. Your god, my god? There is suppose to be a separation between church and state in this country. The men who founded this country were smart enough to set things up that way. It doesn't mean that there is NO god (that for individuals to decide) but that the government shouldn't be in the business of promoting religion.

The person who wrote the pledge (an Baptist minister in fact) knew this enough to not include the line. What made Congress any smarter in 1954 that they felt they had the right to put this line in? Oh yes..they were pressured by the Knights of Columbus to do this. SO basically was was a oath to this counttry suddently becmae a public prayer. Excuse me but what is prayer doing in public school??

http://www.vineyard.net/v...pledge.htm

No God, no USA? Nonsense!! The USA was founded in 1776 and did just fine long before the pledge was changed.

without God there is no country. america is a God fearing country. if you do not agree with the pledge of allegiance then sit down and dont say it. however it will be allowed in school. i think prayer should be allowed in school as well. when we remove God, we allow for all the other influences to run rampant. our children need to learn that there is a greater power than mtv.

If we're gonna declare "seperation of church and state" then either do it or get rid of it from our credo.

You only get what you give. If you want freedom of religion, then dont impose your views on others in public schools.

The line they are trying to remove is hypocritical anyway.

I'd simply remove the pledge from all aspects of public and social life. It's not needed in the schools or at sporting events. Gov't and military affairs probbaly need this as a protocol, but I see absolutely no intrinsic value in it.

2 words for you: Sodom and Gomorrah

fusciah said:

Respecting the freedom of others isn't turning your back on your faith.

fusciah said:

1 word for you:

HUH?

PFunkjazz said:

That's right, we have nothing to be proud of, being in the greatest country in the world with the most oppurtunity.
Spend time in a third world country or communist one and this tune will change real fast.

Protocol? I'm sorry, man, but your whole entire response is a result of liberal indoctrination. I could go on for the next two hours but, hey, I'm busy. Don't take this personally -- and I understand not wanting to be a slave to any government -- but this land is great because of what the people now and the founding founders believed in: that individual freedom is a basic human right under God. Not from a leader. Not from government programs. Not from a relegion. We can't take it for granted; people need to come together, especially in the wake of post-sept 11th.

Peace

We are many things, these United States, but we are most certainly not "one nation under god."

This type of insidious religious wishful thinking has no place in our collective pledge of allegiance to this country.

It's too bad that this courageous ruling will not withstand review by the US Supreme Court. Even though the Court once had the courage to prohibit mandatory prayer in public schools, a ruling that few would argue with today, the current ruling simply sounds too unpatriotic for the uninformed masses.

For those that don't understand the ruling, we'll hear comments like, "what's the big deal with mentioning god?" or "what will they ban next?" And from our hyper-religious president, the ruling will simply be called "ridiculous."

In my opinion, this is a brief victory for the enlightened minority. I'll enjoy it while I can.

CmputrBlu said:

This may come as a complete and utter surprise, but this country was founded on a Christian values and a Christian belief system. Of course now we have to deny it in the face of being nonjudgemental and hurting everyone's feelings, from the Buddhists to the tree worshipers, but that's a separate argument. The point is they have the freedom to do so in this country. As explained above, there is a separation of church and state: the government is not imposing any religion on anyone. So God can be made out to whoever you want it to be. There are many references to God in songs, the Declaration of Independance,the Emancipation Proclamation, the Gettysburg Address, etc.

I think the whole pledge thing is kind of sick.

bonojr said:

basic human right under God? Well, I dont believe in God and I feel that I should have these rights because I am equal to my fellow man..No God needed to understand that...I respect your wishes to love God..But dont force those beliefs on me..Why is that so hard to understand?

TheMax said:

Gee, so enlightened that we all have to suffer for it huh? The Godless atheists aren't happy, so let's throw out hundreds of years of tradition and a belief system based on individual freedom. Got to love these liberals. The pledge isn't promoting a religion. No specific god is mentioned or a specific religion. Of course, it's implied it's the Christian God since we are overwhelmingly a Christian nation (newsflash) -- We shouldn't be ashamed of it, but nowadays you have a better chance of causing in uproar over a Jesus shirt than a satanic one. But returning to the point, a god is not specifically mentioned, so feel free to worship yourself or the neighbors gardening tool and make it your god.

All this is really is a result of more humanism and relativism, there's no right or wrong, there's no freedom, blah blah blach, and I'm quite sick of it.

i think the god part from the pledge should be removed.
not all ppl. believe in god. maybe in the futre they would love him, but either way; it shouldn't be the government telling us to believe in god. america was founded by white rascist christains. but now a lot has changed. rascism isn't AS public as it used to be. and in the near future a lot of the government and the ppl. would be non-christains and non-white.

wow, the usa has to be the most ridiculous country in the whole world! And they call it the land of freedom...hehehehehehehe

bonojr said:

Not like you heard my "whole entire response" cuz I hadn't bothered to post it so what are you yappin' about?

My attitude has nothing at all to do with anything you're alluding to. I refuse to swear allegiance because of the legacy of slavery. All the greatness of AMERICA is tarnished in my eyes, because of this.

Does that mean I would betray the US to foreigners and commit seditious and treasonous acts?
NO.

Does that mean I would refuse to serve in the military?
DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. VIETNAM or Korea? very likely YES. WWII? a definite NO

Does that mean I have chosen to disrespect the men and women who have serve our country's military? NO; I have nothing but respect for these people..

I simply refuse to salute the flag and say that stupid little oath. You wanna say it go right ahead. This verbalizing makes us no more unified than reading your idiotic post, but I will fight for your right to be an idiot.


I ain't mad @cha; but I am laffin @cha.

[/quote]

basic human right under God? Well, I dont believe in God and I feel that I should have these rights because I am equal to my fellow man..No God needed to understand that...I respect your wishes to love God..But dont force those beliefs on me..Why is that so hard to understand?[/quote]


But the thing is, these beliefs lie at the core of morality, which our country's laws are based, and nobody's forcing any specific religion or belief system on you. My, have we got it that bad? Forcing you to carry a Koran or worship a tree stump? Why must the atheists force their beliefs on the country? Isn't THAT a religious choice? The choice to worship no god? Oh my, that's forcing your belief on me, my brother.

bonojr said:

Athiest arent forcing our beliefs on you...You can pray at home, in your car, while in McDonalds, at Church...you can close your eyes and pray to God prior to starting your day at school, work or at home...

But to force people who are in court, in school, getting their citizenship to make a pledge to God is unconstitutional and very un-American. Your arguement is very flawed my friend...And im not trying to make this issue personal...however, in order for our country to let all its citizens feel included, we can not force *God* on anyone...

VIVA DIVERSITY!!!



[This message was edited Thu Jun 27 12:18:16 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]

Not like you heard my "whole entire response" cuz I hadn't bothered to post it so what are you yappin' about?

My attitude has nothing at all to do with anything you're alluding to. I refuse to swear allegiance because of the legacy of slavery. All the greatness of AMERICA is tarnished in my eyes, because of this.

Does that mean I would betray the US to foreigners and commit seditious and treasonous acts?
NO.

Does that mean I would refuse to serve in the military?
DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. VIETNAM or Korea? very likely YES. WWII? a definite NO

Does that mean I have chosen to disrespect the men and women who have serve our country's military? NO; I have nothing but respect for these people..

I simply refuse to salute the flag and say that stupid little oath. You wanna say it go right ahead. This verbalizing makes us no more unified than reading your idiotic post, but I will fight for your right to be an idiot.


I ain't mad @cha; but I am laffin @cha.

[/quote]


Waht up dude? My yappins called constructive criticism. Your obviously convinced one must be a non-questioning and total US government lackey to say the oath. I didn't assume any of those outlandish things you posted. I actually agree, no way in hell would I have fought in Vietnam, no way in hell do I believe that slavery was right. One has to question the authority of any administration.

But of course, your life's tarnished forever by an event that happened years ago, that being slavery. Point blank: if you to be stuck in this negative abyss that's your problem. Ultimately you have to move forward, because this is one country you can do it in. If you don't believe that, try another one. And yes, there's narrowminded rascist idiots everywhere, corporate america, etc.. I don't know your experiences. I don't know you as a person. I've lived abroad, been a minority in different societies so I can relate to the frustration. My best friend is black. Heck, I've dated black women, and the stupid stares/comments I get piss me off too, make no mistake when we have narrowmindedness on both sides of the coin. Also keep in mind this same narrowmindedness exists with the French/Arabs, Germans/Turkish, etc, etc. You have these clashes between peoples in most every society as a result of imperialism. So now what? Condemn the whole world? You got live on.

Peace.

Even God doesnt force Himself on you.
Peace and Love!

bonojr said:[quote]
The Godless atheists aren't happy, so let's throw out hundreds of years of tradition and a belief system based on individual freedom. quote]

Simply not true. We are throwing out 48 years of tradition. Have you not read the thread the "God" part of the pledge was not added until 1954. When they added the "Under God" part they threw out 62 years worth of tradition.

As the pledge was intended to be:
I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.

So where is the equality? Why is no one up in arms over this?

lovemachine said:[quote]

bonojr said:

I posted this earlier:
there is a separation of church and state: the government is not imposing any religion on anyone. So God can be made out to whoever you want it to be. There are many references to God in songs, the Declaration of Independance,the Emancipation Proclamation, the Gettysburg Address, etc.

Breifly, I will just say that God was never included in the founding of the nation (do research on the personal lives of some of the founding fathers and you will find this out).
Actually, there was alot of witchcraft and earth worship involved in the founding of the US, not to mention other hybrid forms of paganism. I myself am a follower of Jesus Christ, but this is my personal choice. A nation should be set up of rules and regulations to protect people from harm while being able to operate fiscally. This does not include enforcing anthems, pledges, and prayers. I don't like removing my hat during the national anthem. This is my choice. However, in some schools and companies, they force you to do so. Ashcroft makes his employees sing the anthem and recite the pledge, while making them sing that lame "eagle" song that he sings. People seem to be afraid of the word "jihad" but the current administration is practicing a so-called "Christian" for of "jihad" themselves. I am for a country of equal rights and free minds, not a police state or a brainwashing-programming regime. People should have the right to find God on their own, not by force.


Your friend,

Jason

SkletonKee said:

I definitely agree.

Peace,

JD