If we cannot pledge allegiance in schools because of the "one nation under God" line & the need to separate church & state, can we exchange money for Prince-related merchandise that reads "In God we trust?"

Who cares about your constitution!

IrishEcho said:

Hysterical over-interpretation...as usual...

If money is an issue. The government might put
new bills with an alternate line like: "In America
we trust" or something like that and in time
The older bills would soon be unexistent because
it would've been taken by the governemt and the new
bills would be the new circulation.

the guy has a really valid point, even if we disagree. We are programed to believe everything we read if its printed and not to question authority in the least. I aplaud the man for standing up for what he believes, even if he is in the minority. I takes guts to stand up, knowing 75% of the population is against him. Why do we say, 'do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God' and stil lie?

No it doesn't take guts, he/she/it hasn't stood up anywhere, it's posting anonymous messages on the internet.

And like most people I've never commited perjury - never even taken the oath actually.

Hey Sax
Did you not just see the guy plead his case against the Christian school superintendant on GMA?

'And like most people I've never commited perjury - never even taken the oath actually'

How old are you, 12? You have never been to court or summond for jury duty? I was trying to explain that people who don't believe in God put importance behind saying those words 'so help me God'. Would you say the pledge if it said 'one nation, under Budda' and you didn't believe in Budda?

AnotherLoverHoleinYoHead said:

Why is that hysterical over-interpretation? The reason that the pledge was ruled to be unconstitutional when said in public schools is because it includes the line "one nation under God." It's actually quite reasonable to note that U.S. currency should be altered as well, as it includes the line "In God we trust." Unless of course, you don't consider the U.S. Treasury part of "state?" Your pitiful personal issues with me are doing your talking, not common sense.

Saxjedi said:

He wasn't talking about me, you putz. He was talking about the person that took this case to court.

And what would you know? You're French. The most useless, self-absorbed country in the world.

In all likelihood, this case will be overturned soon enough anyway. The court it was filed in has the highest percentage of cases eventually overturned.

We don't force people to recite money everyday before school do we? Currently approx 24 states require students to recite the pledge. Money is our currency, but we don't have to read it out loud everyday to use it.

I'm not against reciting the pledge, but i would like people to reconsider the 'One nation under god' part that was added in the 50's.
The US is even more of a melting pot since the 50's, including millions who practive alternative religions and spiritualties.

Also, although i really don't care either way, the whole issue becomes so politicized--"look aren't I patrotic...i voted for blah blah"-that it mutes the point of it.

jthad1129 said:

No, and no. What's the GMA? Some context would be nice. Can we turn this into another 'how arrogant is the USA' thread?

jthad1129 said:

Or it can give you an excuse to lie because if someone doesn't believe in god, it's pretty stupid to let that someone say those lines and think they mean anything to him.

IrishEcho said:

I'm not French! I was pointing out that reciting the names of two towns from another country does not mean you've adopted that nationality... but you actually BELIEVE that?

Wow!

IrishEcho said:

One of the funniest things I've ever read on here, for so many reasons.

But mainly because he's not French. Made me laugh anyway.








Edited because I can.
[This message was edited Thu Jun 27 7:05:27 PDT 2002 by npgsmfc]

IrishEcho said:

Irish is one funny dude! He's not only ignorant, but a narciss! Just because he's hiding behind Malcolm X he thinks he can take a mouthful Problem is that Malcolm had some valid points. IrishEcho is just spewing his lame-ass wannabe-intellectuality over this message board. However, just like oceana, only in a different way, he's quite entertaining. Juts like when I watch Britney Spears, she's very entertaining in a funny way..

Actually whether this is an over-interpretation depends on what your actual question is. The original post speculates on the unconstitionality of exchanging currency with "In God We Trust". In a later post, this position was seemingly modified to query whether U.S. currency should be altered.

While it's quite unlikely that our current currency will be unexchangeable due to constitutional issues, the possibility of an alteration is much more likely. Regardless it's an interesting constitutional question. Moreover, it begs the question, so what if it is removed from our currency? Is the country any more or less "Godly" by giving God a shout-out in our currency and our pledge?

IrishEcho said:

[This message was edited Thu Jun 27 7:52:10 PDT 2002 by Universaluv]

mrchristian said:

here here!!! I really think it would do the good ole USA some good to be engaged in this debate...we come off as hypocrites to the outside world when we preach freedom of relegion and speech, yet we force people to recite "In God We Trust" in school or when they become US citizens. How is this inclussionary to those folks who either dont believe in God or who believe in another faith??...We have a US President who pathetically tried to show his *compassion* towards the Muslim faith yet he now calls this ruling *rediculous*...well, I call Double-U Bush rediculous...

Oh and even though I'm part of the problem, how is this Prince-related? General Discussion lives on...

I'll stand in respect for the flag, but I won't pledge allegiance to it.

IrishEcho said:

Funny you should say that (and it kills me that i'm going to discuss this here) but you're right.

Money should be declared unconstitutional. But not for the "In God We Trust".

Because it's a scam. It's worthless. The Federal Reserve System is the biggest scam in history.

Most people don't know that the Federal Reserve is NOT a part of our government. It's PRIVATELY owned. It's a huge cartel of banks owned by 5 families designed to make them more money.

I'd get deeper, but most of you wont get what i'm talking about.

IrishEcho said:

My "pitiful personal issues" with you? And what would those issues be, other than I don't agree with the way you think? Don't give yourself that much credit...

I mean hysterical over-interpretation in that you're not being logical. Being a child in a classroom and being pressured to recite something about a belief system is totally different than handing someone a piece of paper that is of no personal reflection.

People like you will say that this kind of thing signals the end of the American Way and life as we know it. You'll say that it will cause the moral fabric of America to tear. You'll blame it for anything and everything that goes wrong in this country--for taking God out of the schools. That is what I mean by your hysteria.

IMO, if you want to be fair, criticize irish for what he's said, not for what "people like you will say". Too many assumptions in that statement. Not cool.

Oh, and to keep this prince-related..
"Jimmy Nothing never went 2 school
They made him pledge allegiance
He said it wasn't cool"

AnotherLoverHoleinYoHead said:

IrishEcho said:

Please. SHOULD we associate money WITH God? That's the question. It's only funny printed paper...people who are saying this are placing money on such a divine pedestal.

Money is the root of all evil...it's man made...yet it helps. Again, only funny paper we suffer over. Sad if you really look at it.

Now, if we DON'T separate church and state...then we'd be no different than the Taliban...or similar governments where religion plays a big and nasty role.

I think it's an attempt at breaking the hypocrisy, step by step.

Fine, let's move on and deal with more IMPORTANT things in the world.

Anyway, I'm sure God isn't angry but may be glad over all this...but who am I to say what God feels.

It's funny how these things bring out the looney's. Yet it's good because you see them exposed and now you know who they are.


~*~
edited for misspellings
[This message was edited Thu Jun 27 9:27:10 PDT 2002 by FlyingCloudPassenger]

Money is the God in which most people trust.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

I'm only pissed when I ain't got ENOUGH MONEY. LACK of money makes me evil.

Money is not the root of all evil...It is the LOVE OF MONEy that is the root of all evil...

I see the quote "Money is the root of all evil" all the time, but it's actually a mis-quote. The Biblical verse actually says "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil". Quite a difference.

As for saying the pledge, shouldn't the states make it optional depending on parental wishes? Seems logical to me. Many of these issues regarding seperation of church and state vs. religious freedom could be solved by allowing them, but making them optional for students. Maybe I'm naive, but I really think this could work.

Why are people so upset at these words? A real atheist wouldn't care. This guy must be scared of something he doesn't understand (a supreme being). And by the way, "One nation under God" can apply to any faith.

This should only make a difference to people who think that there is no reason or purpose to our existence, that the universe was created by some giant explosion thousands of years ago, and science is the only explanation for anything...

Let the flames commence.

Universaluv said:

Universalluv, I'm not just talking out of my ass and making assumptions--my comment is based upon the kinds of things I've heard IrishEcho say in other threads. Not to mention, Irish's exact "point" about our money (and perhaps where he got the idea for the thread) was made last night on political news shows, along with the conservative's comments on the morality of taking religion out of school. They tied those things together.