metalorange said:

bingo....unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you see things) this discussion always ends up in a name calling mudsling. thanks for articulating what so many of us have felt but have not been able to express.

metalorange said:

I think we can all agree on this. But, as ever, the snag remains.

I do not think Prince quite resides within the everyday secluded bubble of today's celebrity - nor do I believe he lives in the "real world".

This "bubble" is a double edged sword and not necessarily a bad thing. Part of Prince's appeal and much of what makes him unique is the necessary fact that he doesn't live what we can term a "normal" life, hence the out-there approach to most of what Prince does in an artistic sense.

On the other hand, short of forcing him to accept some unpalatable truths about his approach to his music and artistic career (and who is to say that would be the right thing to do?), I fail to see how Prince will ultimately benefit from more down to earth influences.

Unless he willingly allows it, of course.

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avatarfunk said:

Wow. You chose to jump into a thread you usually avoid and Batman is your argument?

he really needs them to be apart of his musical career now!!!

sosgemini said:

I disagree. Are you saying that they're not empowered if Prince doesn't take their advice and run with it?
Empowering band members and associates to make suggestions does not mean an artists is going to allow them to make decisions about their music. A dude is still going to make his own final decision at the end of the day, that's all I'm saying. I sit down with other musicians all the time and ask them "what do you think of this", or "what if I play it this way", but I'm ultimately going to end up doing what feels good to me. A musician that I truly respect can tell me; "dude, I really don't care for that song", or ""you should do it this way". But if it feels good to me, you better believe I'm going to go up and play it and play it the way I want to, even though I value and respect that person's opinion. That's just the way it is, bro.

OdysseyMiles said:

yeah but...in his case, his fruit has been spoiled. so he needs folks to put him in check...kinda like what rick ruben has been doing to artist of late. knocking some sense into them.

sosgemini said:

Ah...see, but that's all subjective.
I respect Rick, but he's not always right and I'd tell him to shove it in a heartbeat if I really disagreed with his thoughts on something. Prince, Miles, Bjork and many other artists would probably agree with me on this. Keep in mind that Berry Gordy thought Marvin Gaye need some checking . Had Marvin listened to Berry, we wouldn't have What's Going On. Think about that, man. By no means am I saying that an artist never needs help or direction, but at the same time, it's the artists' right to accept it or not. Sometimes I'll relent and say "yes dude, you're idea is better", sometimes I won't. Therefore, the only person who can truly keep an artist in check is him/herself, IMHO. Nobody else can really do it for them.

OdysseyMiles said:

your right, it is subjective...but prince hasnt been releasing "whats going on" quality work now has he?

(well...TRC was a nice effort and i can see why some do like it..but beyond that its been a slow ride downhill).

bjork would not agree..she is a firm believer in collaborations..thats the reason why she decided to do Dancer In The Dark because she believed the collaborative process would be good for her artistically, which it was....she has stated that music without collaborating is a bore.

sosgemini said:

First of all, nobody I know of is making What's Goin On type of work, at least not at the moment .
Yes, I certainly see your point. And I LOVE collaborating too. It's one of the funnest things about making music. But if I have something in mind that I'm passionate about, people are going to have to respect the fact that I'm going to do what I like. It goes both ways. If I'm collaborating with another person and it's a song that they brought to the table, I'm going to respect the fact that they have the final say.
Personally, I don't think I could go as long as Prince has without making an album that came through as a team effort, but hey, that's just me.
What I'm trying to say is that a true collaboration between Prince and anyone else will not take place unless Prince wants it too. Until then, we gotta respect the fact that he prefers to be "master of his domain".
If anybody tries to smack some sense into him, they better be wearing a cup.

OdysseyMiles said:

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

AMEN!

This old friend is excited to see what transpires in 2006.



.
[Edited 12/27/05 13:40pm]

OdysseyMiles said:

but we dont have to respect the work if its crap..... and while you may choose to respect the work and the work process that doesnt mean anyone else has to.

right?

I really do believe that this year will bring a reunion between these 3 and I can't wait to hear the sound of their voices together again.

These Girls are GREAT and I was REALLY EXCITED KNOWING they do the MUSIC for MY Favorite SHOW CROSSING JORDAN.....

sosgemini said:

I respect the work because I'm a songwriter and I respect real musicians. I feel like I can somewhat relate to them, so I honor their work as I would want them to honor mine. Even if it ain't always my cup of tea, I'll always at least try to appreciate and understand where an artist might be coming from. That's just how I am. If Radiohead or Flaming Lips come with something that most people think is lame, I'll be the one giving it chance after chance trying to make sure there's something I'm not missing.
Crap? That's the beauty of art, my brother. Handclaps would agree; one man's "crap" is another man's "classic".
Nah, you don't have to respect the work if you don't want to. We're certainly all entitled to our point of view.
I will say this - I don't believe that anyone can completely influence Prince and his decision making as far as singles, genre, musical or thematic style.
This reminds of a wonderful reminder I received at the Kingdom Hall last night.
An old farmer had a stubborn mule that just would not budge. He said "I know. I'll just light a fire under him. That'll get him moving." He lit a fire under him, and what did that stubborn mule do? He moved two feet and sat his a$$ right back down again!
We may think that we can light a fire under a person. We can approach them from so many different ways, from being encouraging to telling them to their face that their work is crap. Just like that stubborn mule, the motivating fire has to come from inside.

WonderU said:

sosgemini said:

I like that comment. It's a two way thing, I love the way they made Prince's music sexy, who then went off and did his own rock hard funk on his own. I loved that balance.

OdysseyMiles said:

dude, what are you talking about? wendy and lisa did just that in the past. prince created work and passed it on for them to complete during Parade.

and you can motivate or inspire someone. just because one story talked about a mule being stubborn doesnt mean that there arent other ways to motivate the mule. come on noy odyssey, dont be that mule. you know all this..

sosgemini said:

What I meant was, we can't always motivate or inspire someone to do what we want them to do. The comment of mine that you highlighted was referencing Prince today, in the now.
I completely agree that Wendy and Lisa had a profound influence on P in the past. I remember one of them commenting on the piddly amount of classical music Prince had been exposed to when they first met him. They changed that, and they changed a few other things, but still, a person has to be open to it in order for it to even take place. It can't be forced, or it ain't gonna work. Yes, he did pass songs on to W&L to complete because he trusted them and their ablility. I still believe he had the final say on what made it onto the Parade album though.
I would love it if P worked with them again. But if he works with people that he's already worked with before, it would be cool to see them do something they've never done before. But that's just me.

I'm not talking about a retro-revival CD. I'm talking about new music between Prince and Wendy&Lisa.

W&L are masters of musical production and so is Prince. Their collaborations were the best of his career. Prince was "alternative" when he worked with them.

dewalliz said:

Co-fuckin'-sign!!! Dez was the SHIT and brought a LOT to Prince's whole music and style back in the early days. Don't get it twisted! Good call, Dewalliz!

alexnvrmnd said:

F**k Wendy and Lisa. Bring back the crew from Uptown-1999 that was the real mofo's of innovation. The rest were just following there lead.

alexnvrmnd said:

thank you alexnvrmnd and dez not only bought some rock influence but also prince even allow his input on some of the time and vanity 6 albums and i dont consider dez's role to be minimal--far from it. and prince didnt granted the same trust to his former npg members.


although lisa and wendy got prince on the classical and that wannabe 60s psychedelic as you can hear pre-purple rain there was lack of that sound found in prince's earlier albums i dont consider them to be the main influence of his career. prince received influences from all around. still sometimes i am wondered is this the same man who produced great songs like soft and wet uptown and dirty mind and automatic and also sexy dancer actually was responsible doing crap and embarressing songs like do u lie sometimes it snow in april and venus di milo? also sometimes i do blamed prince of allowing l&W's too much influence on atwiad and parade and therefore just totally ruined the flavor. i feel if they havent have that much input, then atwiad and parade would be different albums and likely much funkier and for the better.

although i preferred to see prince working with andre and dez and even dr fink again i dont mind to see prince working together with lisa and wendy but i dont know how it is going to play out since prince is comfortable doing music one way and l&w do another way. just they need to leave that heavy classical and weird experimental shit in the 80s.
[Edited 12/28/05 17:40pm]

Thumparello said:

i like prince's dirty mind lineup too and i really dig for their "I don't give a f**k attitude.

renfield said:

Yeah, but the music was funkier when he was a dictator-- more drama = better music!!