NouveauDance said:

Yes, and I really think that For You is a better indicator of Prince's eventual, overall body of work, too.

prettymansson said:[quote]

PlusSign said:

Firstly, we aren't questioning Prince's talent as a multi-instrumentalist here. Only the value of what he's recorded. There's nothing on "Dirty Mind" that's musically more sophisticated or interesting than thousands of bands could churn out in their garage any afternoon. And many less talented instrumentalists than Prince for that matter too.




I'm talking about the artistic value of something. Not whether it garners "critical acclaim" from a mag like Rolling Stone. They reflect and often provoke the cultural perspective du jour and that's about it. Dirty Mind is obviously a significant album in those terms. It's merit in terms of composition and musicianship in the long term is another matter.




Correct. Nothing more was ever claimed. This all started when I responded to the suggestion that anyone who didn't like "Dirty Mind" couldn't be a Prince fan. Well, I don't and I am. He's a hugely versatile artist with a stunningly diverse catalogue. People are bound to appreciated different aspects of his work.

PlusSign said:[quote]

prettymansson said:

kool...as a musician who earns his living making music for the last 20 years i just thought u were simplifying his ability to create a new genre (the minneapolis sound) with this relese (dirty mind) and not recognizing some of his great contributions...like (his unique take on funk rhythm guitar...or his dexterity on a number of instruments) its all kool...thanx for keeping the debate positive

Plus sign,

I think your standing as a musician has clouded your judgement highly in this debate. You are looking back as if the times and genres are all together. As if Prince's music in "dirty mind" is trite because of its simplicity and how music of Prince's genre has evolved since the late 70s.

One thing Prince excelled at the most was taking something simple, but making it great, and not through complexity but energy and inspiration. So, you shouldn't critique R&B or Rock and Roll for its notational value, but how it inspires the listener.

And, again, trust me that if Prince re-recorded some of those songs while playing live, it would probably fare better than anything he has done post 90s.

Sorry 'bout that, My post didn't go through.
A understand where PlusSign is coming from. I turned some of my friends into Prince fans by playing some of the more obscure "heady" stuff from Prince (including but not limited to TRC and NEWS) and now they're avid fans.
Dirty Mind was never a favorite of mine as I like the more complex diverse stuff; SOTT,Black Album, Parade, TRC, etc, but I also dig the raw unadultered funk rock thing he was doing at the time. It just took me awhile to get to that because I was so diggin' the other stuff.

Bfunkthe1 said:

Nah, I don't think you understand where plus sign is coming from.

He has stated on another thread here that "dirty mind" is pure crap.

Plus Sign is not to be disagreed with here, because it is obviously his personal taste that reasons his statements. Just as the Britney fan will justify their love for her music or how people think Jimmy Hendrix was overrated.

Personal taste is all there is to it, but when Plus Sign goes on to dignify the statements with Prince's arranging ability, he fails to realize that the music Prince arranged on "dirty mind" worked when most of the "black album" and beyond was disjointed, over-produced, and then plain boring.

Don't get me wrong, the "Black Album" his best of the latter works, but it was a definitive sign of his decline. Although it is just an opinion, you could agree when seeing how Prince chose "Lovesexy" over the "black album" and used the weakest songs from the "black album" to be released on "lovesexy" for popular release.


Interestingly, you additionaly should notice the guilt-ridden Prince who somehow thinks he is going to hell for his racy and lewd works. He really felt the "black album" was wrong and apparently this had something to do with his close relationship at the time to Sinead O'Connor? She said he shouldn't release it, etc. Back to the point, the "Black Album" was also a sign of his tendency to feel actual guilt over his works. Combined with his deep spirituality (which at the time had no concrete religion) this moved him toward an extreme religion who could spank his ass and make him into the gutless wonder he has become.

How ironic.

Forgive me, but I lived in the 80s and that was the word at the time.
[Edited 12/18/05 3:47am]
[Edited 12/18/05 3:52am]

Still not sure what we're being asked to do here...

Least Fav. Song on Dirty Mind: Sister--I guess? Dirty Mind is one of those rare CDs that I listen too w/out skipping a song.

Least Fav. Prince album: Emancipation (I have YET to listen to all 3 discs in their entirety.)

I'm a musician and songwriter also, a songs complexity has next to nothing to do with it's merit. Most rock music has always been simple, simple has nothing to do with ability to move hearts and minds. In fact, it is very difficult to pack this kind of potency in a simple, basic form, which is why Prince and many rock writers are special. Dirty Mind is overrated in my mind, in the Prince cannon but it's a good album that freed him up alot. It has plenty of good tracks on it. It was a rallying cry more than a great album to me, he was calling his audience out, the one which would sustain him through thick and thin and giving them their first test. He was aware that he would alienate the people he gained with Prince,(something he would do over and over again in his career). Prince has balls, more than just about any other artist in his genre and at his level of stardom, this gets overlooked all the time. Of his early albums (Pre-Purple Rain) I would rate them in this order:
1. 1999
2. Prince
3. Dirty Mind
4. Controversy
5. For You
Each was excellent, each was important in various stages of his early developement. It's also a hell of a lot of work for one man to manage in that amount of time.

mozfonky said:

I Agree on most points except "a song's complexity has next to nothing to do with it's merit". Isn't merit, like music, subjective?

where's Dansa...

Imago777 said:

Your avi


Dirty Mind is one of my favourite albums.

Nikki23 said:

I don't ever really listen to Dirty Mind cause its
just not a favorite. I won't write some long explanation of why
Its just not me.

my least favorite Prince albums though are:
1) For You
2) The Rainbow Children
3) Chaos & Disorder
4) Dirty Mind

1. The Rainbow Children
2. New Power Soul
3. N.E.W.S

Posted enough on Dirty Mind earlier.
My least Listened to Prince releases are:

New Power Soul
Diamonds and Pearls
Rave unto the Joy Fantastic (original version)

Snap said:

how come no one else is saying what their least fav song off the album is?
y'all going off on some crazy tangents and stuff

mozfonky said:

It's easy to get sidetracked by semantics. Perhaps "nuanced" is a better word than complex. Complexity without other characteristics like taste and passion is of course worthless. Simplicity can be beautiful but it needs to be complemented by some kind of subtlety... a simple melody played with sublime phrasing, a simple beat underlying a fascinating arrangement, and so forth... otherwise you just have banality. I agree that most rock music is simple. And most of it is forgettable (and will be forgotten). "Moving hearts and minds" in the rock music context really means just entertaining people. And certainly that's a worthy enterprise in itself. It's great that many people liked stomping to "Achy Breaky Heart". But I don't think it will go down in the annals as much of an artistic statement. Boot Scooters like corny country, and edgy funksters like the raw and ribald Prince of the early 80s. Well, "whatever butter's your jelly" as someone once said. Everyone's entitled to their tastes. But I feel Prince's best work signifies him as a vital Artist of the twentieth century, not just a faddish entertainer. In that context his most impressive work isn't to be found among his hits or cult-status albums; and contra to popular belief he has matured enormously as a musician over the past ten years.

Bfunkthe1 said:

Thanks for confirming that I'm not alone in that experience. Prince to some degree is a victim of his own versatility. A lot of people into "serious" music have only heard the hits and dismiss him as just another pop artist. Once you expose them to the other stuff, they're often really surprised. Prince is almost unique in his ability to have tapped the pop sensibility for a large portion of his career and still pursue composition and musicianship in a very serious artistic manner. The Rainbow Children and News are also the two albums I pull out to play in full for other musos; although there are numerous individual cuts from other projects that can blow the most sensitive ears away. I know a brilliant vocal coach, now in his sixties, who has coached international-winning choirs and has done arrangements for vocal groups from Peter, Paul and Mary to Manhatten Transfer. He used to dismiss Prince as a flamboyent poseur. So I did him a mix tape with some of Prince's most impressive vox harmony stuff -- including many cuts that get ridiculed among the raw-funk diehards. He still doesn't think Prince has much of a "voice"... but he's amazed by the musicianship with which he deploys it and the sophistication of the arrangements. In fact he's an absolute Prince nut now, and even uses snippets from Prince tracks as illustrations for his singers.

The guys from the band I used to play for are more funk-jazz-fusion heads, and it was albums like "News" and "The Rainbow Children" that really blew them away. We used to play "Cream", "Kiss", "I Would Die 4U", "Raspberry Beret", in the group and I think that's all they thought he was cabable of. These guys play pop music for a living, but they listen Miles Davis and Weather Report for their kicks. Now they listen to Prince too. But not the hit catalogue, or the "Dirty Mind" album.

But I feel Prince's best work signifies him as a vital Artist of the twentieth century, not just a faddish entertainer. In that context his most impressive work isn't to be found among his hits or cult-status albums; and contra to popular belief he has matured enormously as a musician over the past ten years.[/quote]

Sure Prince has improved, I've been saying this for about 10 years or so myself, but he's also lost the pulse to the market as all great artists do, and I think that the ability of an artist to sychronize with an audience is part of greatness. i'm not crazy about dirty mind or for you but much of his early work had that special magic that guys like Elvis had on the Sun sessions, sure Elvis improved in many ways as he got older but there was something potent that diminished, same with Prince. I do think Prince is one of the few pop artists who will be taken seriously in a the future and I like his dabbling in many styles, most people do not however, and personally, I think saying that he's doing "complex" stuff sounds a bit too much like the snobbery that ran me out of classical music and back to where I felt at home.

PlusSign said:

There use to be a day when I felt like I was "pushing" Prince on to my friends, now there "pullin", if you know what I mean.
As I mentioned before now non-prince fans are avid listeners and they go buy his stuff as regularily as do.
I've noticed most Prince fan have their favorite "periods" and will defend diligently those choices. By the same standards they will denounce the other "periods". It's such a cliche but it comes to subjectivity. Plain and simple. An old friend once said in reference to music, "I like what I like".

[Not nice snip - luv4u] MY QUESTION WAS (WHAT IS YOUR LEAST FAVORITE TRACK FROM DIRTY MIND)
NOT WHAT IS YOUR LEAST FAVORITE ALBUM, LEAST FAVORITE SONGS FROM OTHER ALBUMS.
[Not nice snip - luv4u]

tripp said:

Calm down dude, I didn't know you were so strict. Please, no one close the thread. My least favorite song?? Well....Funkytown.


[If this crap keeps up I may have to close the thread, now BEHAVE - luv4u]

JDINTERACTIVE said:

maybe she aint seen this travesty of a thread.

we'll see!

Marrk said:

...or she knows a troll when she sees one.

Why else would someone start a thread with absolutely no purpose and nothing to say except "[Insert classic, beloved album here] sucks"?

[Flame snipped - BananaCologne].

tripp, tripp, tripp...stop tripping.

tripp said:

noooo, a pole is something you stick your tongue on when it's 30-below outside (if it's a metal pole, preferably). a poll, however, is an entirely different affair.

just spare your daily thread limit if shit like this gets you this aggravated, eh? you're a newbie, so obviously you aren't aware of the way that threads such as this one usually evolve 'round here. a lot of the time people do this thing within "least favorite" threads...a little thing called debating.

it ain't a big deal, so come off it already.