"If a man is concidered guilty 4 what goes on in his mind then give me the electric chair 4all my future crimes"

I noticed this portion of lyric in an Orger's signature and I brought to my mind the current drama involving the "future" dirty-bomber being held in South Carolina. Is anyone else constantly amazed at how on target Prince is with many of the things that he sings about?

And, can you be considered guilty of a future crime -- I'm picturing the movie "Minority Report" now.

The Cat has been on target his entire career, openly. In his private life, I believe we still have yet to see the depth of his well.


peace...musze

"Minority Report" is from SFiction writer Philip k Dick, (the author of Blade Runner & Total Recall was adapted from one of his stories too), one of the greatest writer of the 20 th century imo (well, not only mine), without him no "Matrix", no "Truman Show".
If you can, read "Ubik" or "The Man in the high castle", 2 of his best stuff...

jnoel said:

So is Prince reading this pulp fiction as you and I do, or is this whole idea of "Big Brother" "Thought Police" and etc. just overwhelming the psyche of AMERIKA?

Ebonics is just like Newspeak and the police are watching the people more than ever...

Orwell was right.

Yes, 1984 happened, about 10 or 15 years after the fact and so slowly that nobody really seemed to notice. Everything is taped, filmed or recorded. Big Brother is real, they ARE out to get you and there's no such thing as paranoia. The good news is that right now whatever you may or not be up to is most likely inconsequential at the moment.

Well, that's "progress"...

"The police used to watch over the people, now they're watching the people." - Charles Manson

herbthe4 said:

herbthe4, I was listening to Mike Reagan the other day, (I've actually I tuned him out after this particular episode, but that's another story) and he was diggin' on the fact that the FBI has been granted new powers by Ashcroft -- I'm gettin' the heebie jeebies even typing this fools' names, you know, the whole bit about summoning devils by uttering their names.

It is truly amazing what powers our government now possess. I truly believe that 9/11 wasn't some unforseen incident. But, yeah I ain't doin' shit but goin' to church, payin' bills, crappin' around on Prince.org

kmc said:

It (1984) was almost inevitable, and the most frightening thing about it to me was how WILLINGLY the majority of the population seemed to go along with it, often encouraging it. IMO, it really began in earnest (sp?) with the process of drug testing. People (in general) seem to hold the opinion that if it doesn't directly affect them than it's OK. In other words (and I've heard this thought expressed), "if you've got nothing to hide, then what are you worried about?", which most thinking people understand is complete and utter bullshit of the most dangerous kind.

Then again, what the hell are we, or the people running the show, supposed to do? Everybody kicks and screams about safer streets, tighter security and protection from crime, wonders why nothing's being done about it and then freaks out when something IS done, especailly when THEY are directly affected. Then suddenly it doesn't seem like such a hot fucking idea anymore.

Sit back and buckle your seatbelt, since about to get much, much worse and more intense than you ever dreamed possible; and the MAJORITY of the American public is all for it since the most freedom they want is the freedom to watch "Survivor", "The Real World" or porno. Nobody gives a shit until it affects them. Like everybody is for random checkpoints fo rdrunk drivers/drugs until THEY get stopped and are late for a meeting or otherwise inconvenienced.

Like I said, brace yourself. You're about to see some shit you never believed was possible.

jnoel said:

See also "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", aka "Blade Runner"

General Discussion lives on..

Ok I'll be the token skeptic here.
I don't see it just yet.

Don't get me wrong there is definitely plenty to be concerned about, but that's nothing new, nor is it accelerating at any great pace IMO. As long as there have been people with power and authority there has been and always will be some form of Big Brother(see eg., the inquisition, Japanese internment camps, the red scare).I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I don't see it happening now.

Although I agree with alot that herbthe4 is worried about unfortunately I think we too often underestimate the willingness of the majority to turn over their fundamental rights and overestimate the current threat to those rights. Things get better and things get worse often at the same time. In many ways we have more freedoms than ever, and in other ways we have less.

It's interesting that we now cite films like "the matrix" or "minority report" as visions of the near-future. When I was a kid it was de rigeur to cite films like "mad max" as visions of the near future. I have yet to shave my head into a mohawk and fight my neighbors for gasoline, so, I remain, skeptical.

(..weekend plans: shave head into mohawk, fight neighbors for gasoline..)

McCarthy and Hoover were a nice little Orwellian team... along with wonderboy, Roy Cohn!

1984 was in the makings even back then...

What is the new McCarthyism?

IceNine said:

That's too easy. Ask that guy they've got locked up in a military base in DC what he thinks.

Edited to add the "m" in the word military.
[This message was edited Thu Jun 20 13:59:48 PDT 2002 by herbthe4]

herbthe4 said:

How about this for Orwellian...

What do you think of all the cameras on traffic lights, video cameras in every store you visit, random cameras in parking lots, spy satellites that can read your galdarn license plate from space, military video equipment that can see through walls...

Who needs a telescreen... we have video monitors and billboards all over the place to spread the propaganda...


...
[This message was edited Thu Jun 20 15:04:36 PDT 2002 by IceNine]

Now I really fell like I'm living in a goldfish bowl.

Do you think they saw what I was just doing???

xenon said:

I hope not!

If they were watching me they'd probably shake their heads and turn away in disbelief..I'm a big dork!

AzureStar said:

Modesty? Mz. Az I do doubt that.

xenon said:

Yes, I did... and I am going to be calling the animal rights people now... you should be ashamed of yourself.

IceNine said:

Well, I was bound to get caught eventually.

xenon said:

I will admit that I am impressed with your ferret training abilities though... although you are a giant pervert.

IceNine said:

You should see what I can do with a marmoset.

it IS really sad how things have become and that us folks here have little say over what goes on with our government, which is supposed to be OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people. I don't think "the people" would support much of what goes on if they were actually given a voice in this so-called democracy (everyone has the right to vote in a
"democracy", but your vote doesn't count.) How about this new one: Pres. Bush just decided to relax EPA regulations for utility companies because it will "help the war on terrorism." In other words, more pollution will help catch terrorist. Lucy, mind 'splainin this one to me???

~Canada is looking better every day!

The US is not a democracy nor does it claim to be. We live in a Republican-democracy. Of the course the people have a say in our government. But we don't have a say in every decision that government makes, and we don't really want to. That would be too cumbersome and nothing would ever get done. That's why we elect representatives.

Now if you have a beef with your representative, write them, or vote for someone else.

oneYes said:

[This message was edited Thu Jun 20 16:06:03 PDT 2002 by Universaluv]

oneYes said:

the volume or weight of your voice in this country seems in all ways connected the number of dollars in your bank account.

Btw Bush is in bed w/ the utility companies. And this so called War on Terrorism is an excuse to get money, and power. Xenophobia is a bitch. I wonder how these people got on Nato's shit list. Too damn black, and rich I guess.

kmc, where does one start with yet another melodramatic, paranoid, anti-American thread like this one?

In case you were not aware, on September 11, 2001 this country was savagely attacked by a group of Islamic fundamentalists (stop reading now if you are one of the hopelessly misled people who don't believe that the hijackers were AlQaeda operatives).

These assholes, because of their perceived economic and military persecution at the hands of the United States, feel the moral authority to comandeer civilian aircrafts and fly them into civilian buildings with the goal of destroying our country and its people. They also feel that it's fair play to kidnap our journalists such as D.Pearl, torture him, and videotape his execution by decapitation.

Some of us are pissed off about all of this, and most of us are appropriately worried about the next move these lunatics plan to make.

Therefore, we as a nation are committed to uncovering and disabling further threats by these animals. Your friend, Al Muhajir, is a US citizen (who reminds me of John Walker-Lindh), was trained by AlQaeda to wire explosives, and he developed a keen interest in radiologic dispersion. He has been detained and questioned, and may ultimately be charged with conspiracy to detonate a radioactive bomb. Ah, that's a crime.

It's noble of you to opine that we may have arrived in the Orwellian world of 1984, but unless you've been hangin' with AlQaeda, studying bomb-making, trekking through Pakistan, and getting busted for a passport violation, well I'm pretty sure you don't have too much to worry about from the FBI or CIA.

I do hope you and the others on this thread feel reassured in some small way. When you're finished whining about our heavy-handed security tightening, perhaps you'll figure out where the real threat is coming from. Then again, you may side with Muhajir and Walker-Lindh. It wouldn't surprise me.

TheMax said:

Yo Max, let me first say that, like many school girls I had massive unrequited crushes on, I LOVE AMERICA. Let me also say that PERCEPTION gets confused with PARANOIA quite too often.

There is much in your post that I could reply to, but let me just say this -- our government is too intrusive for me not to believe that at some level we were aware of what was happening with "Bin Laden and company." Are you aware that the IRS can pretty much create a three-dimensional picture of you with a couple of clicks of a mouse curser? There were simply too many people involved in the 9/11 plot for it not to have raised the eye-brows of some government operatives.


Let me also stress one other thing: I have a HUGE problem with prosecutorial tools such as CONSPIRACY and INTENT, and that is because as a prosecutor one is assigning criminal motive to THOUGHTS. You may not mind the THOUGHT POLICE, but I do, especially since I know what kind of crap flows through my mind.

I could really sum up my view of where we are going as a society in one sentence:

I don't believe that the ENDS neccessarily justifies the MEANS.

God help us all

kmc said:

They may seem like prosecutorial "tools," but bad people really do conspire to commit crimes, and when they are caught, they are appropriately punished. Intent is often tricky, but once a crime is committed, the intent of the responsible party should be queried, and when possible, appropriately assigned.

Not all violence is planned. Harm is not always intended. Those "tools" that you mentioned can also be used to mitigate the offense in question.

I find your worry about the "thought police" to be interesting. Thus far, the best that science can do is image your brain - we're a long way from reading people's minds - so I'd advise that you worry a little less. I am told that many psychotics, especially schizophrenics, have a strong feeling that their thoughts are being somehow broadcast, and that the CIA and FBI are plotting against them. The rest of us usually get along okay, knowing that our private thoughts are safe within us.

If however, your private thoughts lead you to associations with known terrorists, then I am afraid that you do have to worry about our government. Frankly, that's the way I like it.

___