SquirrelMeat said:

Squirrel, I totally agree with you. Another thing is that in the whole England vs Scotland "Braveheart" crap Scots pride themselves on, most Scots who hate the English and trumpet the independence of Scots would be shocked if you pointed out to them that Scots in the Borders fought on the English side, against their fellow Scots. The only reason modern day Scots are "Irish" is because of the influx of Irish folk coming here in the 1800s. My family are Scots on my father's side/Irish on my mother's. I judge myself to be a Briton first and foremost. I pay British taxes, I hold a British passport. My national status is that of a British citizen.
I don't have a problem with Scots who wish to be addressed as a Scot firstly. I'll even refer to myself as a Scot before I'll refer to myself as a Briton occassionally. What I DO have a problem with though, is Scots that seek to deny their own Britishness because of William bloody Wallace. Scots that CONSTANTLY trumpet about the Auld Enemy and "keeping the Celticness alive" when they don't know the actual histories of Scotland, Ireland and England. The Irish brought Roman Catholicism in its current trend to Scotland. The Irish brought their Gaelic, which then offshot into Scots Gaelic (incidentally, can all the Real Scots here raise their hands if they can speak Gaelic, be it Irish or Scottish?... ho hum).
I have no idea why the Scots sympathise with the Irish problems. I came from a mixed Protestant/Catholic family, attended a Protestant school but also attended chapel as a kid, and to be honest, I don't really give a shit what you believe in. I wonder how many actually realise that the Protestant religion is an offshot of the Catholic Church heralded by the Royals of the time, hence the Protestant "loyalty" to the throne. I've not met one single Protestant who gave a flying fuck about the Queen, in fact, most of them are anti-Royalist. So why are the Union Jacks out at the Old Firm matches?
The Catholics? I have workmates who love Celtic and aren't into that whole "Tim" shit. I've actually met more grounded Celtic fans in my life, but I've lost count of how many Celtic fans wander around here pretending that they're Irish and drape themselves in all things green.
In short, they're both as bad as each other. The only thing they have in common is the common English hatred. And why? Nothing more than common man's ignorance. Their parents hated England. After all, England gave us Margeret Thatcher, and she hated the Scots, we were the poll tax guinea pigs of the world... bla bla bla bla. I've never got racist abuse from an English person to my face (online, oh sure, everyone got balls here lol), if nothing else, I've found the Glasweigan accent is offputting towards potential trouble . I actually find a lot of English people LIKE the Scots - they don't take this whole shit seriously. However, I know plenty of English people who have had that from Scots. I was actually accused of being an English bitch where I live - all because I refused to speak Scots slang.
Scots have to wake up and realise England isn't the reason they have problems. Scotland is. Until the average Scot puts down his Daily Record and picks up his history books instead, which probably won't happen in the Central Belt because the Daily Record has prettier pictures, you'll just keep seeing this idiocy every time England play in an international game. Pathetic, isn't it?

Good stuff It looks like I’ve caused another rumpus, I’m getting good at this. It’s a bit strange that every time I slag of the England football team, race, politics and now even religion is getting brought into it. Let’s take a step back here, England go out of the world cup, which makes me happy, then I decide to give out a bit of stick. Which is very common amongst football fans I have to remind you all. Just like during the England v Denmark game, the English support where singing “are you Scotland in disguise”. Football rivalry I believe it’s called, NOT racism.
Guybarker is obviously a passionate England fan hence his abuse towards me, fair enough. I was giving stick out, so I’m willing to take it.
LilSusie good stuff. Politics, race & religion. WOW I’m only talking football sweetheart. I must agree with your point about the Daily Record. It is full of hypocrisy, ignorance and hate. Disgusting rag.
Squirrelmeat, well your just being Squirrelmeat I suppose Fair enough your only replying to other posts.
This is history just repeating itself, so to clarify once AGAIN. The subject is football nothing else. Scotland football fans are big rivals with England’s football fans. It seems I'm not allowed to slag my rivals because I’d be racist. Political correctness is so wrong. As I’ve said before I’d never treat an Englishman any different from any one else. This is not a race issue, it’s football. Liverpool – Everton, Newcastle – Sunderland, Spurs – Arsenal. These are football rivals just like Scotland & England. Are these people racist! or are they just football rivals. Why on earth people bring politics into it, is beyond me. Perhaps it’s an attempt to claim some sort of cheap moral high ground.
Anyway, chill out you crazy bandits. I was going to leave a parting shot at the England team, I better not. Your a sensitive lot. No feck it I can’t resist, let’s all laugh at England , lets all laugh at England na na na na. (football remember)

Bluebird said:
posh spice, jamie oliver, queen elizabeth, tim henman, the sun, the daily mail, tony blair, can you hear me tony blair,

your boys took a hell of a beating
---

That was a classic, I think it was an Argentine commentator, " you hear me Margaret Thatcher", so funny.

ScottNPG said:

nah, i think the original was the norwegian commentator the first time they beat england (early 80s i think)

still, made me laugh !!

SquirrelMeat said:

hmmm, not that good on history. seems the welsh dont exist.

still, thats cool, we're used to it.

heddwch

ScottNPG - Bless, you'd be quite sweet if you weren't so sad.

Ceyb - No, he isn't Parisian, he is Brazilian (i know they sound similar, but there is a difference = Brazil are through to the semi final because they are a great team, whereas France went out in the first round, because, well, u know.

And by your reckoning then they guy who put Italy out is also Italian as he plays for Perugia? Then why r the Italians so pissed off?

ScottNPG said:


The ONLY reason Scots football fans are "rivals" with the English football fans is because of politics, "sweetheart". Scotland can't play international football for shit. Oh, and yes, football in the Central Belt IS politics and religion. But hey, you're a proud Scotsman, you realise that, right?
The difference between English local team rivalry and the Old Firm is simple - in England, no-one gets a glass bottle in their face for their religion. Oops, I meant football team.
Oh, and you also pointed out before I even posted that you would hate to be in England because you "would fear for your personal safety". Isn't that bringing politics and race into it long before SquirrelMeat and myself started discussing the Scotland vs England "rivalry"? Like I said, I go to England a lot. The Midlands to be precise. No-one really gives a shit about "Scotland the Brave", football or otherwise. You're just Scottish, you just have a funny accent. The only thing that makes me proud to be Scottish is the accent, and thats only because my partner seems to go coo-coo over it. However, bring an English person to Scotland and they WILL get racist abuse.
Oddly enough, any enlightened Scots I do meet (oops, I meant Those On Moral High Ground) WERE supporting England. It happened to be the closest thing to a national team representing Britain in the World Cup, and isn't that the point, to cheer your nation on?
Sorry, forgive me, I'm just a poor, ignorant little female who actually can sustain an arguement. You just proved my point. England (football or otherwise) are the Auld Enemy to the mass breeding of ignorant Scots because they don't know - or don't dare to know - any better.

Ho hum.

bluebird said :


Nah, I didn't forget about the Welsh, I was just throwing in my viewpoint about the whole Scotland vs England bull, which involves Ireland if you're talking Scotland, considering half of the West Coast of Scotland want to be Irish.

Wales is cool. I went there when I was 14 with a mate and her family.

Saw lots of sheep...



Sorry. Just doing my national duty as a Scot.

slightly off topic but just to point out that the english dont feel any hatred 2ward the scots, the best scottish national song was written by a scouser, mull of kyntire.
anyway i think the scots have no need for thier apparent inferiority complex. after all they are world champion cabre tossers

LilSusie said:

aww, shame, you saw wales and you mentioned sheep. you forgot rugby, coal and tom jones.

and the only reason the welsh (and all the scots i know, apart from you - can i say i know you yet ?) want england to lose is , honestly, just football rivalry. if england was an island in the south pacific we obviously wouldnt give a fuck.

people tell me to support england cos they are the nearest team to me ? for that reason they are the last team i would support.

thats like saying when cardiff get knocked out of the fa cup i should hope swansea or bristol win it ?

its not going to happen is it.

Your very cynical LilSusie. Yes, granted there is occasionally outbursts of violence at old firm games, but to make us as bad our even worst than the English disease called hooliganism, is quit astonishing to say the least. You might think that this is a thing of the past because you don’t read about it any more. It’s alive and well, but strangely swept under the carpet. Nothing to do with England wanting to host the world cup. NOT. Europe is the perfect example, it’s harder to hide what happens abroad. Even in recent times whether it’s the English international team or clubs, there has been rioting and even deaths. How often to you see Scottish fans causing trouble, whether it’s the international team or clubs. I can’t think of any incidents at all. As I said before there is recorded incidents between the old firm, but comparing that to England’s track record is the equivalent to Scots being a puddle in the street compared to England’s Atlantic Ocean.
It saddens me that your English friend is at risk of being racially abused, are you referring to Scotland in general or a certain town/city? If I was in a situation, where this to happen, I’d like to think I’d do something about it. It’s intolerable and very sad. Please don’t confuse my wind up of England’s world cup woes as racist, although you seem to have a problem differentiating the two.
As for supporting England in the world cup that holds no ground at all. So I should support England because they are part of Britain, maybe so, but I don’t recall Britain qualifying for the world cup. England are representing England no one else, I’m not English! Hello! Am I suppose to support a country who’s fans mock my country, Scotland. Am I suppose to support a country who’s official national anthem states :-
“And like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush”. Did English fans get behind Scotland’s world campaign in 74, hell no. A country who’s fans are synonymous trouble makers.
Support England. Give me a break. I only support my nation of birth. No one has any right to tell me otherwise. “Sorry, forgive me, I'm just a poor, ignorant little female who actually can sustain an arguement”. Don’t put yourself down girl, your doing well, for a burd at least. Now don’t get all feminist on me now, that was just a wee joke.

Lust- dont u forget it mate, cabre tossing world champion, kilt wearing, haggis eating,... any other cliche's.

Its a pity the general discussion isn't open. I'd start a thread about the "English Vs Scottish" thing.

Why?

Although we all share some disapproval and even hatred, I think its good that we listen to other peoples point of view.

Someone like SCOTTNPG and me have views at the other end of each other, but, I hope we could go to a good Prince show, argue, then sink a beer.

Both of us will hope the other one will see sense, but in life, that is not always the case.

I enjoy hearing about the hatred to England. The people that hate come from two groups. The uneducated, who have grown up with the hatred, and the educated, who still argue their side of the hatred/love divide.

I went out of my way to study the English/Scottish thing, and to be honest, I was shocked with what I found (see previous post).

What does annoy me is when people will ignore fact, and refer back to basic hatred because they know no better.

We all know the Scottish (or majority) hate the English, but what I want to know is, why?

If the current land of Scotland was occupied by Picts, Britons and Saxons, then invaded by the Celtics, then those "Scottish" that claim and defend to be celtic are actually invaders. The exact same crime you place on the English.

I sometimes worry people think I'm spreading propaganda, so I'll post some links, including SNP, just to prove I'm on the side of hsitory, not story.

ScottNPG said:

touche, i was going to bring up the haggis thing but then i remembered that the english have black puuding and jellied eels, no wonder chicken tikka masala is the national dish, but rather than focusing on englands faults id like to congratulate the scots on some graet exports, please note im not taking the piss here, scotch whiskey, fuckin marvelous, simple minds , breakfast club would not have been the same without them, and thier song belfast child is awesome altho whenever i try 2 sing it in the shower brothers in arms comes out instead. but then just when im thinking the scots have given us some graet things i remember the scotch egg and that fucks it all up plus the scots also lose points for allowing the english 2 build a butlins opposite the afforementioned mull of kyntire. bunch of arse

It's never personal Squirrelmeat. I know I could watch Prince argue then sink a beer, and another and another and so on. I know how tight you English can be. Scots being tight was a myth started up by the English to cover up their own extreme tightness. Research that Squirrelmeat.
Forget Saxons & Picts for now. Any resentment comes from one thing. Scotland is a country in it’s own right. Westminster makes the decisions for us. That’s it, quite simple. If Scotland was independent the relationship between the two countries would be much better. Now the people of Scotland haven’t voted for this, which they could. However I’m only trying to explain the resentment factor. The resentment is more underlying than anything else, otherwise Scots would voted for independence. Let’s not interlace resentment with hatred. It’s not that bad in Scotland. The world cup has just blown everything out of proportion. If Westminster was in Glasgow, surely it wouldn’t to hard to understand where I’m coming from here!

As promised, heres some links. I've tried to pick links wriiten by Scots.

http://www.all-about-scotland.com/

http://www.bigfamily.co.u...y=Scotland

http://www.scotshistoryon...igin1.html


Heres a typical Scottish Nation party site. Notice they ignore 100 AD to 1400 AD? Why? The SNP writing a web site is like the British in NI writing for England. How long do you have to "own" a land before you claim it as your homeland?

http://www.scottishhistor...othist.htm

All I am saying is, my brothers in Scotland, look at the propoganda on pro "scotland" web sights and find evidence of pre 1000 AD. On the Pro Sotland sights, find me 200AD history. I dare ya! If you do, you'll find the Picts, the Britons and the saxon staring back at you. So who owns Scotland or England. The answer, all of us!

Its easy claiming rights to a land, but who owned it before you?

The English and the Scottish are same, but somewhere in history, with the help on the Celtics, the Scots forgot who they were.

Touche...your mistaken my New Zealand friend. I was on the humour train.

By the way, has anyone seen the thing on the SNP site, showing the Union Jack without the blue of scotland?

they are so right.

The British flag without scotland is so pants its untrue. Don't leave us!

Lets all hold hands & sing_ "heal the world make it a better place for you and for me and the entire human race" or "we are the world we are the children we are the ones who.." don't know the rest. I just can't get of that humour train.

The night shift makes you twisted!

I'm still on Japan time, so what the f**k am I doing up!

If it makes you feel better, I'm back in cold England, with the team, and we feel like shite!

lust said:

Eh??? Don't make me f*&ing laugh!

The only Scottish national song is Flower of Scotland (and possibly anything recorded by the Proclaimers ).

Mull of Kintyre??? Ewww! Just cos it's got bagpipes in it doesn't make it Scottish!