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PrintableNouveauDance said: DiamondGirl said: I know all that and agree. I meant that it was bs because Prince didn't practice what he preached. And that the audience didn't exactly prescribe to it either. becasue after th e concert was over, everyone went back to their same world. So while it had an impact to a degree, sure: did anyone really live it? I myself don't think so. Ya gotta at least try though right. I mean the rulers of the world don't give a shit whether your black or white, we're all the same lowly wage-slaves to them. The message, however convoluted, or fallen on deaf ears it is - it's one that's important to re-itterate. Because I bet Prince did get through to that white kid in the mid-west who lived in a backwards-thinking hick town, or that poor angry young black kid who thought he'd been fucked over by the system, "so what was the point in tryin'?" Never underestimate the power of a simple pop song in influencing the adolescent mind - You can't change everyone, but you can plant seeds, and some of them will grow.  
I just wish he believed his own message . [Edited 12/11/05 19:57pm] | |
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NouveauDance said:
Because I bet Prince did get through to that white kid in the mid-west who lived in a backwards-thinking hick town Try being in The South, that's worse. Prince definately got through to me. If he wasn't gay, he sure as hell looked the part and had all the gestures. He still got called all the names and insults so actually he was living the life that a gay person lives, whether he was gay or not. Prince carried himself with strength though. He threw his nose up in the air as if he were superior to the ones calling him the names and didn't give a fuck. It's almost like he was looking down on them as if they were trash that didn't deserve an explanation. He turned the tables and laughed at them for being "normal". His music (in the early 1980s at least) was more harder and kick ass than any so-called straight person's could ever be. It was far from weak limp wristed stereotypical ballet, opera, classical, or any other dull ass "waldo" music that people like to associate someone gay with. He put an end to feminine men being "sweet" and showed the world that they were pure snake venom if you messed with them. It's like he was spitting in their faces and giving them the finger. I have carried myself the same way ever since I first laid eyes on Prince. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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DiamondGirl said: And this is my W&L point exactly. Im going out on a limb here to assume that most who are cosistently praising W&L are white fans (besides sosgemini). I mean there is this dichotomy that everything they contributed is what was best for Princes and makes for the best Prince music with others who are black feel that the line-up of Dez, Prince, and Andre were best years. Others a mixed bag, SOTT and Lovesexy line-up.It is as if we are comparing classical artists like Mozart to Duke Ellington. In many hushed circles, Ellington is never praised as highly as any classical artists. Hell, most black artists music is rarely deemed as on par with classical musicans.
But this is deeper than just those issues. FINALLY! YES | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: DiamondGirl said: Always has been, always will. Race does matter.
The Wendy and Lisa subject matter proves this. Everytime. I often ponder this very statement. The fact that they're so overrated does make one wonder why people go so crazy for them, especially when Prince has had MUCH better talents like Shiela E. in his camp. Yet if it was soley race Dr. Fink, Eric Leeds, Atlanta Bliss, Bobby Z. Tommy B. etc. would get more of an appreciation. I do think race plays a major role though because we are products of a society that teaches identification based on race. Prince played on that with the racial make up of the Revolution and it crossed him over. It seems like the blacker his band got after he hit the less popular he became. Although the SOTT/Lovesexy band was more racially balanced than any other group he had. The prominence of the members was a little different from the Revolution, so the level of diversity is often overlooked. We also have to consider time period and the context in which some W&L lovers were introduced to Prince. Some are just wanting to relive their youth because a new Revolution, ie. W&L composition will return them to a simpler time in life. I think W&L's prominence in Purple Rain has a great deal to do with it, also the fact that they put more of a European astehtic and 1960s Beatlesque vibe in his music, which endears them to certain people. I just find it interesting that a group of musicians that were only with him for a short period of time and only contributed a small amount to his overall catalog is considered to be his saving grace. This topic does warrant more consideration though. [Edited 12/10/05 8:51am] Someone Had to say it. Thank you!!! | |
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vainandy said: NouveauDance said:
Because I bet Prince did get through to that white kid in the mid-west who lived in a backwards-thinking hick town Try being in The South, that's worse. Prince definately got through to me. If he wasn't gay, he sure as hell looked the part and had all the gestures. He still got called all the names and insults so actually he was living the life that a gay person lives, whether he was gay or not. Prince carried himself with strength though. He threw his nose up in the air as if he were superior to the ones calling him the names and didn't give a fuck. It's almost like he was looking down on them as if they were trash that didn't deserve an explanation. He turned the tables and laughed at them for being "normal". His music (in the early 1980s at least) was more harder and kick ass than any so-called straight person's could ever be. It was far from weak limp wristed stereotypical ballet, opera, classical, or any other dull ass "waldo" music that people like to associate someone gay with. He put an end to feminine men being "sweet" and showed the world that they were pure snake venom if you messed with them. It's like he was spitting in their faces and giving them the finger. I have carried myself the same way ever since I first laid eyes on Prince. This is a brilliant comment. It's really simillar to how I feel about Prince. Yeah he got through to me. I was a shy 15 year old English girl living in a typical middle England city with a typical middle England family. I had a family from 2 different cultures. So although I was white I knew I didn't quite fit in. Half my family were your typical English stiff upper lip. The other half were continental and very religious. Prince was like a breath of fresh air for me. He made me realise there was no such thing as "normal" and I was fine just the way I was. Shut up already, damn. | |
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The thing that amazes me everytime this comes up is the fact that when Lisa Coleman joined Prince's band, there was no mention on how great or influencial she was as a musician. The fact is she was a great addition to an already brilliant band. Now having said that, Lisa went through 3 major tours without a word being said about her but she was part of the the bigger picture called "a Group". When Purple Rain came out, a lot of people who'd never heard of Prince identified with certain members of the band who were in the movie and ran with that. Being a musician myself I could tell that Wendy had not been playing guitar very long at all and it appeared to be a lot of on the job training. Wendy seemed more of a "jangler" if anything. I never thought of the so-called Wendy and Lisa as having as big of an influence on Prince as many believe. You have to remember, Prince is the artist. The way he wants you to perceive his act is just that. A perception. Prince's so called hits came at a time when it was HIS time in the music industry just as it's Beyonce's of Fifty Cent's now (Remember when the Fugees couldn't no no wrong?). For my personal taste, I think the music prior to the Purple Rain album was some of the most under-rated art in musical history. That is just my opinion but I won't go on to say that was the best this artist has to offer. Those were magical times in my life as well but wanting Andre, and Dez back isn't where I'm at in life right now. I'd sooner want back some of the money I've wasted. I'm not saying that Lisa Coleman and Wendy didn't influence Prince in some way at some time but I am saying that all the credit that's being thrown their way is not deserved. If Wendy and Lisa were all that some people think they are, I'm sure their place in musical history so far as popular music would be a lot more prominent than it is. I'm not saying that they aren't successful but remember, that success came from Prince having a far reaching influence on them. | |
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i'm not being racist, i'm being ascthetic, and i say white people should get a tan or stay out of my way. | |
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chunky said: i'm not being racist, i'm being ascthetic, and i say white people should get a tan or stay out of my way.
LOL. and why is that?  .. interesting comment : | |
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Muziqmkr said: The thing that amazes me everytime this comes up is the fact that when Lisa Coleman joined Prince's band, there was no mention on how great or influencial she was as a musician. The fact is she was a great addition to an already brilliant band. Now having said that, Lisa went through 3 major tours without a word being said about her but she was part of the the bigger picture called "a Group". When Purple Rain came out, a lot of people who'd never heard of Prince identified with certain members of the band who were in the movie and ran with that. Being a musician myself I could tell that Wendy had not been playing guitar very long at all and it appeared to be a lot of on the job training. Wendy seemed more of a "jangler" if anything. I never thought of the so-called Wendy and Lisa as having as big of an influence on Prince as many believe. You have to remember, Prince is the artist. The way he wants you to perceive his act is just that. A perception. Prince's so called hits came at a time when it was HIS time in the music industry just as it's Beyonce's of Fifty Cent's now (Remember when the Fugees couldn't no no wrong?). For my personal taste, I think the music prior to the Purple Rain album was some of the most under-rated art in musical history. That is just my opinion but I won't go on to say that was the best this artist has to offer. Those were magical times in my life as well but wanting Andre, and Dez back isn't where I'm at in life right now. I'd sooner want back some of the money I've wasted. I'm not saying that Lisa Coleman and Wendy didn't influence Prince in some way at some time but I am saying that all the credit that's being thrown their way is not deserved. If Wendy and Lisa were all that some people think they are, I'm sure their place in musical history so far as popular music would be a lot more prominent than it is. I'm not saying that they aren't successful but remember, that success came from Prince having a far reaching influence on them.
I wish I could post a usendit link of a boot with Prince teaching them all how to play Another Lonely Xmas. Folks forget that Prince was the one showing them what and how to play certain things. | |
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TheCatWoman said: chunky said: i'm not being racist, i'm being ascthetic, and i say white people should get a tan or stay out of my way.
LOL. and why is that? .. interesting comment :this is what i mean, if you're white get a tan or have a baby with a black person [Edited 12/11/05 21:36pm] | |
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chunky said: TheCatWoman said: LOL. and why is that? .. interesting comment :this is what i mean, if you're white get a tan or have a baby with a black person [Edited 12/11/05 21:36pm] hmm  | |
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chunky please dont bring any of that mess to this thread in an attempt to get it shut down please. Or mods, just delete his comments. Thanks in advance to both of you (chunk and mods). | |
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DiamondGirl said: NouveauDance said: Christ. Why does it always come back to this?
You really do read some of THE most backwards statements when the race card is played with concerns to Prince's music. I dunno if it's tragic, hilarious, or just simply.....both. "race card" ? "back to this again"? Nobody sees the dicothomy betwen black and white regarding the culture and music and being of Prince? Oh its non existent eh? Black fans dont herald Cymone and Dickerson lineup? White fans dont praise Wendy and Lisa lineup? Black fans dont side with Prince regarding protecting his own rights regarding bootlegging? White fans dont feel he is being stupid about bootlegging restrictions/feelings? Oh. It must be just me. Your argument would work fantastically but for two things. The first being that you over-generalize and a valid point can never be made out of that, regardless of topic. The second is that there are more races in the fanbase and in humanity than black and white. If you forget the rest of us when you discuss race, you only tell part of the story. [Edited 12/12/05 1:11am] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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NouveauDance said: Never underestimate the power of a simple pop song in influencing the adolescent mind - You can't change everyone, but you can plant seeds, and some of them will grow.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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DiamondGirl said: Muziqmkr said: The thing that amazes me everytime this comes up is the fact that when Lisa Coleman joined Prince's band, there was no mention on how great or influencial she was as a musician. The fact is she was a great addition to an already brilliant band. Now having said that, Lisa went through 3 major tours without a word being said about her but she was part of the the bigger picture called "a Group". When Purple Rain came out, a lot of people who'd never heard of Prince identified with certain members of the band who were in the movie and ran with that. Being a musician myself I could tell that Wendy had not been playing guitar very long at all and it appeared to be a lot of on the job training. Wendy seemed more of a "jangler" if anything. I never thought of the so-called Wendy and Lisa as having as big of an influence on Prince as many believe. You have to remember, Prince is the artist. The way he wants you to perceive his act is just that. A perception. Prince's so called hits came at a time when it was HIS time in the music industry just as it's Beyonce's of Fifty Cent's now (Remember when the Fugees couldn't no no wrong?). For my personal taste, I think the music prior to the Purple Rain album was some of the most under-rated art in musical history. That is just my opinion but I won't go on to say that was the best this artist has to offer. Those were magical times in my life as well but wanting Andre, and Dez back isn't where I'm at in life right now. I'd sooner want back some of the money I've wasted. I'm not saying that Lisa Coleman and Wendy didn't influence Prince in some way at some time but I am saying that all the credit that's being thrown their way is not deserved. If Wendy and Lisa were all that some people think they are, I'm sure their place in musical history so far as popular music would be a lot more prominent than it is. I'm not saying that they aren't successful but remember, that success came from Prince having a far reaching influence on them.
I wish I could post a usendit link of a boot with Prince teaching them all how to play Another Lonely Xmas. Folks forget that Prince was the one showing them what and how to play certain things. Well Said YES!   | |
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