DiamondGirl said:

my lil contribution. i'm black and i dont side with prince protection his rights regarding bootlegging (i totally understand it, but i dont side with it). i'm not a praiser of w&l (tho i love the music from that period outtakes included) nor am i a hater. same goes for the cymone/dickerson line up

virginie74 said:

Listen to this woman!!!! She speaks the truth!

People can praise Wendy and Lisa all they want but give me Andre and Dez any day.

I'm annoyed. I Love all the Wendy and Lisa contributions and that is my favorite period of Prince music, but it's NOT because they are white. And just because I like that period doesn't prove that I believe anything in particular about about race.

And that thing you were saying about comparing Duke Ellington to Mozart and Classical composers was ridiculous. Duke Ellington is honored by all established cultural institutions about as much as any 20th century composer has been. Ellington works within the foundation of Western music created by people like Mozart. If you choose to see that as a black and white thing... I think that's sad.

Who does this girl think she is? Anybody who speaks on behalf of their own race clearly has issues with their own ego! I don't know what the person beside me (black or white)at a prince concert wants 2 hear played. And i don't fucking care! But I can guarantee that I'll B feeling whatever the next song is...dancing and singing with whoever is beside me.

U even said yourself (and I quote).

"Music being deemed the best at whatever time is all very very much subjective. You will be hard pressed to find anyone who feels music of a different era other then their own formative years being heralded as the best"

...regardless of race!

U should B ashamed of yourself!

now that you mention it.....

cuz women(calling sexism in question) are usually never given much credit, especially when behind a talented, power man.

*play that funky music white girl*

what...no lock..

vainandy said:

see vainandy, you and i totally disagree on prince's music yet we can appreciate each others company because we arent trying to tear down other peoples pleasures..

this whole, "wendy & lisa fans are white there for their opinions are irrelevent" smacks of racism...its silly..


and oh yeah, im the only black wendy and lisa fan ehh?

tell that to prince, seal, alicia keyes, sheila e, arnelle nevelle, lenny kravitz, ?uestlove and van hunt....
[Edited 12/11/05 7:58am]

Well to me I adored Andre and Dez and that why I like the 1978-80 era almost any other era besides Purple Rain and 1999.

I also like Brownmark and to this day he remains the best bass player. IF Brownmark wants to be more memorable by Prince's fanthat brother needs to do some interviews or a book of his life with Prince like Dez had. I don't think that Brownmark isn't going to tell a nitty-gritty story since he probably signed that confidental agreement.

I like Dr. Fink and he probably the only white bandmember that I like musically besides Tommy B.. Dr. Fink was funky and also he had his own style which I like, and he even didn't look too bad in that surgeon suit either.

Wendy and Lisa doesnt do a thing to me but if people admired them then that their Kool-Aid. But I like Lisa better pre-ATWIAD she was just another for-hired bandmember and was told what to play and sing. Before Wendy came along and they team together to fuck things up by helped doing crap albums like ATWIAD and Parade.

But it nothing to do with race on this one, it whether which eras I feeling for and which era I do not. I didn't like mostly of the NPG era and Prince had mostly black bandmembers. It was because there was lack of individuality of the bandmembers and the fans couldn't connected with them, unlike some of the early bandmembers.

Ya heard?
[Edited 12/11/05 8:10am]

fyi: theres nothing to get folks...why even bother trying to understand why so many people appreciate wendy and lisa's contributions? why declare statements like "overrated"? its childish..


how can anyone be overrated? consensus is consensus...your opinion is no more valid then mine..your reaction to the music is no more valid then mine...

why are people here soo threatened by opposing views? for the life of me i will never understand it..you, personally, dont like wendy and lisa; "fine"....im happy for you...

i dont like the beetles....should i justify my own dislike for them by putting other peoples opinions down? does that make my life better?

nope...

Rhondab said:

It will eventually Rhonda just wait and see.

sosgemini said:

You forgot about Meshell Ngo whatever I am a big fan of hers and I read interviews of her and she did mentioned Wendy.

dewalliz said:

its twu...its twu..



lisa also collaborated on almost every song on meshell's "bitter"..

and betty lavette..thats a new converted soul sista who loves lisa's piano playing..
[Edited 12/11/05 8:38am]

sosgemini said:

dewalliz said:

Yeah! Does that mean I've got to stop liking her now then or what? This all seems so pointless really - excuse me, I've got some music to go listen to! Have fun peeps.

BananaCologne said:

What you like and don't like doesn't affect my taste, baby.

You going to listen to some music and so will I. I got some old skool jams waiting for me. So enjoy to u too!!!!

dewalliz said:

That wasn't directed at you actually.

[quote]

sosgemini said:

You may prefer Wendy and Lisa but I bet we both agree that we would rather see Andre play with his "instrument" rather than watching Wendy and Lisa playing with theirs.

vainandy said:

so twu..so twu...

Whoah. So many wrong ideas about what I meant which is my fault ultimately. I'm not saying that Wendy and Lisa are worthy or whatever becasue they are white. And I only used them as an example as to a big debate and attitude on AMP many moons ago where it seemed like lines were drawn in black and white about their part in Prince music.

Im not saying that white people disregard Duke Ellington.

I most definitely did not mean that sosgemini is the only (or raritiy)black person to like Wendy and Lisa (I only used him as an example showing that it isn't always either or, didn't mean to say he is th e only one, gawd).

I'm not saying that if you are a certain race you dont understand this or that.

I merely meant that in my travels on the net and on other websites, it appeared that many races had certain attitudes towards the culture of Prince (I use the world culture so it can encompass all about the music, person, philosophy and what have you).

Maybe those who fit a certain schema was more salient to me then just a generalized attitude.

This was never intended to be about knocking W&L, or others or to discount or speak for a races atttitudes. It was merely my observation Ive wiotnessed over the years, what was salient to me. Not about what one should listen to, appreciate, or otherwise.

I can't believe that is what peopel thought. Again, maybe I need to write better, but neverthe;less, in a post I made above I thought I clarified. regardless, those things are what I noticed and lived through. Like it or not. And to th e poster who said "worse..thread..ever.." lol fine. But where was the bruhuha when someone stated elsewhere "black people are not accepting of diverse styles of music?"

Geez.

Ground-already-covered edit.

.
[Edited 12/11/05 17:42pm]

Yep I think the Wendy and Lisa question always touches a raw nerve.

Were they liked because they were white ?

Good musicians ?

Or did they take Prince into music more associated with white music...? Such as the hippy psychedelic "Around The World In A Day".

And certainly "Parade" has a very European feel about it.

I don't know but I think Prince was already inspired by such an eclectic mix of musicians that he probably wanted to go in these directions.

Even if it was only to see where it lead him.

Also I think the best thing about them all was that they didn't seem to take themselves too seriously. Which seemed such a refreshing change from all the rest of the music that was around at the time.

The message was that anyone could come to the party. Everyone was welcome, no matter what walk of life you came from.

It was all about having fun, expressing yourself and just being out there and seeing what you could do and what you wanted to do.

pepper7 said:

Agree with this. I was gonna reply with something similar, then it turned into a big long rant that I was gonna post as a separate thread, but you pretty much said everything I was gonna point out, but so much more succinctly.

I still might post that rant though, no point in letting a good soap-box go to waste :soapbox:

pepper7 said:

1. Drop the wendy n lisa thing

2. The all about having fun and "expressing yourself and just being out there" vibe was false. prince ddin't ascribe to it without reservations imo.

DiamondGirl said:

Really ? Why do you think that ?

pepper7 said:

Becasue lets say for example, his Dirty Mind Uptown manifesto which is where Prince began being "Prince" and his ribald just do it if it feels good philosophy. He sang about it and preached it, but from some accounts Ive read about, he was def not into being comfortable with gay males. I mean that enigma act was just that: an act. He claimed for freedom of expression, musically, sexually, or otherwise, but when it came down to it, he would be one to say "uh..whatever" in so many ways. Another thing is if some dudes came dressed lets s ay flamboyantly as he, it seems he and his cronies might clown on you (NPG, Gil and Wally). So to me it seems like eh was a-ok for freedom of expression if it was about HIM.

DiamondGirl said:

Maybe Prince did issue it with reservations, but there was a whole generation of fans who were getting the message, regardless of any limitations Prince may or may not have personally put on it in real life.

I think a lot of people really identified with the ethos and ideology of the Revolution era (and previous Dirty Mind/Contro/1999) - freedom of expression and breaking rules and barriers - It was a great message.

Once you put a piece of art or communication out there for public consumption and use, it's no longer 100% yours, in terms of what people feel it means to them, or what they think it is about, or how they relate to it. So whatever reservations Prince may have had personally about this ideology, it had little impact on the fans.

DiamondGirl said:

Yeah I do agree with you there.

I think Prince may have had a hang-up that people thought he was gay.

Like in the words from Controversy:

I just can't believe all the things people say -- Controversy
Am I black or white? Am I straight or gay? -- Controversy

I also think this is what maybe led him to be ambiguous and adopt the attitude of letting the public form their own opinion of him.

Especially in the lyrics from "I Would Die For You":

I'm not a woman
I'm not a man
I am something that you'll never understand

I think he sort of played on this and went the other way. Sort of saying anything goes..



Also I'm not really criticising him for this though because I think it just shows that he was insecure about himself and perhaps not that confident with who he was at the time.

It was like he was covering it up with bravado and saucy song lyrics.

Infact for me it just makes me like him even more because I totally relate to him.


[Edited 12/11/05 18:27pm]
[Edited 12/11/05 18:28pm]

NouveauDance said:

I know all that and agree. I meant that it was bs because Prince didn't practice what he preached. And that the audience didn't exactly prescribe to it either. becasue after th e concert was over, everyone went back to their same world. So while it had an impact to a degree, sure: did anyone really live it? I myself don't think so.

DiamondGirl said:

Ya gotta at least try though right. I mean the rulers of the world don't give a shit whether your black or white, we're all the same lowly wage-slaves to them. The message, however convoluted, or fallen on deaf ears it is - it's one that's important to re-itterate. Because I bet Prince did get through to that white kid in the mid-west who lived in a backwards-thinking hick town, or that poor angry young black kid who thought he'd been fucked over by the system, "so what was the point in tryin'?"

Never underestimate the power of a simple pop song in influencing the adolescent mind - You can't change everyone, but you can plant seeds, and some of them will grow.

NouveauDance said:

Hello!!!! JC waves his hands. I adored Prince as a kid in Duluth Minnesota. Everbody in my hometown thought he was 'a faggot'. I knew, because Prince was so cool, that it was ok to love faggots.

And to wear ruffles and long trench coats...and lace gloves. Oh only I had pictures...