Always has been, always will. Race does matter.

The Wendy and Lisa subject matter proves this. Everytime.

DiamondGirl said:

I often ponder this very statement. The fact that they're so overrated does make one wonder why people go so crazy for them, especially when Prince has had MUCH better talents like Shiela E. in his camp. Yet if it was soley race Dr. Fink, Eric Leeds, Atlanta Bliss, Bobby Z. Tommy B. etc. would get more of an appreciation. I do think race plays a major role though because we are products of a society that teaches identification based on race. Prince played on that with the racial make up of the Revolution and it crossed him over. It seems like the blacker his band got after he hit the less popular he became. Although the SOTT/Lovesexy band was more racially balanced than any other group he had. The prominence of the members was a little different from the Revolution, so the level of diversity is often overlooked. We also have to consider time period and the context in which some W&L lovers were introduced to Prince. Some are just wanting to relive their youth because a new Revolution, ie. W&L composition will return them to a simpler time in life.

I think W&L's prominence in Purple Rain has a great deal to do with it, also the fact that they put more of a European astehtic and 1960s Beatlesque vibe in his music, which endears them to certain people. I just find it interesting that a group of musicians that were only with him for a short period of time and only contributed a small amount to his overall catalog is considered to be his saving grace.

This topic does warrant more consideration though.
[Edited 12/10/05 8:51am]

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Thank you for your thoughts. I think it is also relevant to his audience reaction as you have stated in part of your comments. More specifically, relevant now. I think there is definitely a dichtomy in attitudes regarding his music, bands, influence, "rights," and bootlegging.

DiamondGirl said:

I just find it interesting that a group of musicians that were only with him for a short period of time and only contributed a small amount to his overall catalog is considered to be his saving grace.


[Edited 12/10/05 8:51am]

In sometimes think Wendy and Lisa were so popular because they were such a contrast to Prince and the other musicians.

The Revolution was such an eclectic mix.

Also although Sheila E is a brilliant musician she doesn't come across that well in interviews.

Wendy and Lisa just seemed so straight laced and girl-next door next to Prince and you kind of ended up wondering how they became friends in the first place.!

But THAT'S also why I think it worked so well.

Wendy and Lisa were to Prince what Brian May was to Freddie Mercury.

Wendy and Lisa were both relatively reserved and quiet next to Princes extrovert antics.

Also they all represented a great mixed-bag which seemed to symbolise Princes music at the time.

wendy & lisa were also some of the most experimental songwriters prince has ever worked with -- they consistently pushed the envelope -- check out the stuff they've done since breaking camp with prince -- i don't think it's so much about race (and all that entails), but more about those who added complexity, richness, and "color" to his sound

In many hushed circles, Ellington is never praised as highly as any classical artists.

Hell, most black artists music is rarely deemed as on par with classical musicans.

DiamondGirl said:

What are "hushed circles"?
Are these secret whiteman only clubs?



Your implication here is most white artists are deemed on par with classical musicians & I don't see that happening. Can you show some proof of this?

Christ. Why does it always come back to this?

You really do read some of THE most backwards statements when the race card is played with concerns to Prince's music. I dunno if it's tragic, hilarious, or just simply.....both.

So when Ellington's unfinished opera is performed by the American Music Festival and at the John F Kennedy Center and at the Brooklyn Academy of Music with the Brooklyn Philharmonic & the Duke Ellington Orchestra is this evidence of Ellington's music being treated as a non-existant composer by the "hushed circles"?

NouveauDance said:

"race card" ?

"back to this again"?

Nobody sees the dicothomy betwen black and white regarding the culture and music and being of Prince?

Oh its non existent eh?

Black fans dont herald Cymone and Dickerson lineup?

White fans dont praise Wendy and Lisa lineup?

Black fans dont side with Prince regarding protecting his own rights regarding bootlegging?

White fans dont feel he is being stupid about bootlegging restrictions/feelings?

Oh. It must be just me.

Christ. Why does it always come back to this?

DiamondGirl said:

Some of those examples are BEYOND idiotic.

Argue your little corner all you want, this discussion will never end, it will always go round in circles.....

I'm not pissed off. More like annoyed.

Heres my thing - I was raised in the south during the 60's so I've seen my fair share of racial hatred & racial prejudice. I've seen the KKK. I've seen cross burnings. I've lived in segregated towns. And I think what I've taken from those years is to question any one who makes a broad racial statement(or any kind of statement for that matter) to back up that statement.

I'm also a huge fan of the music from the 20's & 30's and more specifically the music of Armstrong & Ellington & Basie. So when I see a post along the lines of Ellington gets no respect because he is black it irratates me because I know there are people that will accept that as a fact without even questioning it. Without knowing the history of Duke Ellington and then repeat it as a fact because they read it on the internet.

So I don't know if I'm making myself clear. Its not really a racial thing with me - its an ignorance thing. I see so much of people reading something in the newspaper or on the internet & accepting it without question that it gets to me.
[Edited 12/10/05 13:58pm]

DiamondGirl said:

I often ponder this very statement. The fact that they're so overrated does make one wonder why people go so crazy for them, especially when Prince has had MUCH better talents like Shiela E. in his camp. Yet if it was soley race Dr. Fink, Eric Leeds, Atlanta Bliss, Bobby Z. Tommy B. etc. would get more of an appreciation. I do think race plays a major role though because we are products of a society that teaches identification based on race. Prince played on that with the racial make up of the Revolution and it crossed him over. It seems like the blacker his band got after he hit the less popular he became. Although the SOTT/Lovesexy band was more racially balanced than any other group he had. The prominence of the members was a little different from the Revolution, so the level of diversity is often overlooked. We also have to consider time period and the context in which some W&L lovers were introduced to Prince. Some are just wanting to relive their youth because a new Revolution, ie. W&L composition will return them to a simpler time in life.

I think W&L's prominence in Purple Rain has a great deal to do with it, also the fact that they put more of a European astehtic and 1960s Beatlesque vibe in his music, which endears them to certain people. I just find it interesting that a group of musicians that were only with him for a short period of time and only contributed a small amount to his overall catalog is considered to be his saving grace.

This topic does warrant more consideration though.
[Edited 12/10/05 8:51am]