AzureStar said:

Exactly right... well said, indeed!

revenge said:

I have always thought that ?uestlove should have been picked up to play drums for Prince... he is a damned fine drummer.

Just to remind me of what I'm responding to:-

IceNine said:

In what way has Prince flushed his career down the toilet?

Shifting large numbers of records? Possibly, but even that is arguable. It might be argued that Prince's style is simply poorly suited to mass market culture. It's a possible point.

But is merely shifting records really a fair judge of the condition of one's career? Did Prince set out to make money or is he an artist in the true sense of the word? Does someone of Prince's talent deserve to be judge on such simplistic terms?

At the end of the day, I'd imagine business acumen has little to do with creative output, which of course is surely the best criteria by which to judge a true artist's career by. Why instead don't we look to his output instead? If we do, we might see that business becomes irrelevant. So I'd argue: Let's leave it out.

Therapy said:

Personally, because I've worn out TRC I don't play it anymore. It's not because I don't like it, I think it's a return to form for him.

But, as far as being a good businessman/woman; the vast majority of recording artists are NOT. Believe this; if they were to take the road less traveled by being their own manager, agent, publicist, etc., etc., most of their careers would not turn out as well. It's really the norm that musicians aren't good business people by themselves. Prince is no different when it comes to that. That's why they need to hire the right people to help them run their careers. It doesn't hurt to immerse yourself in the business end of things to know what goes on and how to better yourself for the long-term either.

IceNine said:

I've never been impressed with him.

Supernova said:

I have always thought that he had a good, laid-back feel to his playing that would suit Prince pretty well... I don't know if he is the world's most technical drummer, but he can hit the funk.

Who knows how it would really work out though... I could be as wrong as Howard Cosell's toupee!

Supernova said:

Exactly my thoughts.

Prince doesn't need no questlove, John Blackwell is the baddest and best drummer for him to have.

Prince doesn't need no Dr. Dre. Dre is a commercial agressive guns drugs shooting hookers bitches ho nonsense proclaimer. He could never agree working with him, nor making any modern r&b/ hiphop inspired songs anymore.

Prince doesn't DESPERATELY need a major label record deal.
Prince needs to do what he wants to do. And right now it is NOT working with a major.

What he does need to do is conduct his business in a better fashion.
Right now he is serving only a select group of people with the npgmc. He doesn't have that much fans left and definitly not all of them are members, since the deal he offers isn't really that attractive to many people.

But those fans left are mostly fans that more or less dig everything he has put out and who will buy his new albums if they like them and who will go and see his concerts and who will buy concert releases and aftershows or video's, if he would just make them avalaible to them.
An exclusive music club for 100$ which gives you very little certainty of what to expect from is not the way to go for a musician like Prince in my opinion.
It's too much nonsense to go through for many people. He should make the concept much more simple.

He needs to change his strategy, he needs to really open up the doors of his music to virtually anybody who is even slightly interested in it. Therefore the npgmc in its current form would have to go.
He would need to put his new music for sale to anybody, but without the obligation to join as a member. This way he would give people a choice and get many more customers.

And thus yes he also needs better public relations and a better distribution system. But he doesn't desperately need a major lable deal.

This way he can still create a certain members only club for celebration and concert deals, but at least the music will be there for anybody interested in buying a cd.


-
[This message was edited Thu Jun 20 17:11:12 PDT 2002 by Abrazo]

Prince is happier as 2 controlling his own life instead of some big shot record company ripping off all they can. He now has his own freedom of expression. Emancipation darling!

luv4u said:

or self-induced prison? a lot of artist thrive off of pressure...hopefully prince isnt one of them...but, for me, he hasnt produced an album that points otherwise...TRC came close and im hoping he goes even further with his next thoughtout work..but i often wonder, if Prince were still fighting with record labels to prove his worth, would we be getting better work?

sure, his life maybe happier, but that doesnt neccessarily equate to great music...

oohh..and to stay on topic: npgmc needs some major overhauling...if things continue as they are, i will not be resigning for year 3...and, if Ani Difranco can sell tons of cds on her own, Prince should be working or modeling his ship after hers...

but then he wont get the credit for re-inventing the wheel...expecially one that a woman created...

SkletonKee said:

I think he is trying. At least he gets 100% involvement in all areas of his music and career. And he can be as expressive as he wants w/o being told what he can and cannot sing. TRC I really enjoyed. His ONA concert was fabulous, a memory I will never forget. Emancipation darling!

ScarLett said:

Is Prince's assistant Fred E. really gone? Does anybody know why he left? So who's his assistant now, Mani?

Money and Prince don't mix. I think Prince is don't looking for a major record label and that keeps him free. Free artists are more creative or do you want Prince to sale his sole and act like Madonna?

HAN said:

I'm sorry. Of course, I wanted to write soul not sole.
it's to hot here!

AzureStar said:

I don't think Prince has ruined his career, If anything he has won respect from people all over the world, He has let us know that you don't have to sell 2 million records to be succesful, He made more money on crystal ball than he did on purple rain, one with a label, the other with his own. He still owns and operates Paisley Park, He plays when he wants, 10 oclock, 12 o clock or 2 in the morning and people are at the concerts in the middle of winter freezing there butts off, because they know that when he is gone, there will be no other. He makes his music for no one but himself, Many, many entertainers, movie stars, and successful musicians all give him credit for being the best, people will pay their own way to get the chance to play with him, and we are talking about seasoned musicians,
with all of that how could his career be ruined, The people who make comments like that are people who don't like him or his music, who are not members of the club, who are not going to concerts and who are using the org to push; their racist and hatred views. And if a person is a Fam you act as if that is some sickness. But at the same time you are all over Prince Org with your tanted views.
And who is intelligent?

jazzy328is said:

Ahem... cough, cough... I am a HUGE fan of Prince with roughly 500 Prince discs (bootlegs, in case you haven't heard of them), I am a member of the NPGMC and was last year as well and I have seen him in concert MANY times... I have converted many friends into Prince fans, etc.

Jesus christ, where the fuck was racism and hatred in any of this? Does it hurt to be as stupid as you are?

And, exactly what is a "tainted view?" That wouldn't be ANY view that is not exactly like yours, would it? Small-minded, unintelligent people like you make me sick. No offense.

Your mind would be a little clearer if you pulled your head out of your bum.

Just because I am of the opinion that a retarded squid could run a business better than Prince does not make me a racist.

REMEMBER THIS QUOTE:

"I think that those who cry racist the most are the most racist." - IceNine


P.S. Look back over your post and notice the myriad errors in grammar, punctuation and spelling before you question the intelligence of anyone else. Your writing is at about the level of a fifth-grade student at a bad school.
....
[This message was edited Fri Jun 21 6:58:39 PDT 2002 by IceNine]

Sounds like someone desperately needs to take their own incentive and get their own life.

Silly man

ChickenLittle said:

yes mydear, the infamous Fred is really gone!!"undisclosed reasoning" and no mani is not the PA its someone else..

You motherfuckers kill me! Y'know, the easiest thing in the world to do is to comment on what someone else should do with their life. If Prince wanted a major deal, he would either have on, or he would be pursuing one. As pointed out by Herbthe4, many artists are continuing to wise up to the whole label-big recording contract thing anyway. That aint what's happening anymore. And as for Prince not beiing a good business man, as the other broth put it, you're out of your phucking mind man. The brotha owns comercial property, (Paisely Park, not to mention the properties that maybe we simply don't know of) residential property,etc. But, more importantly, he owns Prince! When you do the math on 200,000 sold copies of TRC alone, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the money that he made on that album. And with no real overhead, it's huge! I have a suggestion for you, since you're so fond of big record cotracts...why don't you go and get one for yourself. The way I see it,
Princeneedsamajorlabellikeheneedsawholeinhishead

Reece said:

There is about a zero percent chance that any label would be interested in Prince. This does not mean that Prince cannot make good music, it simply means that Prince cannot sell records. It really doesn't matter how well the label promotes his records, they will not sell.

I was making a sarcastic comment... could you not tell that by the statement:

"At least major labels have people who are paid to flush people's careers down the toilet a little more slowly."

In effect, I was saying that a major label would NOT help Prince's career.

I didn't think that I would need to spell it out for everyone, but I guess I was wrong.

I stand by my statement that Prince is a horrible businessman. He has been in financial troubles on multiple occassions and is certainly not in the financial position that he should be after selling so many recordS.


...
[This message was edited Fri Jun 21 7:24:38 PDT 2002 by IceNine]

Why does Prince need help?

Why judge someone else for doing what he wants/likes to do?
Is he hurting you?

I agree with DJ Dredd. Many people didn't like/get TRC. I happen to enjoy it, and I really enjoyed it after the live ONA tour here in DC. I wish I would have had a ticket for each night. It was his best performance, music-wise i have seen. I love his old stuff, I love his new stuff.

Prince is still, by far, the most prolific writer/artist.
I do miss him dancing around, cause I think he is incredibly sexy. However, his sex appeal still is there without the dancing. I sat in Row 5 at the DC show. You could see how much he digs playing. That is sexy!

I would enjoy him even if he wasn't sexy . He just happens 2 be. No artist's music ever, consistently, made me feel all the things I feel with Prince's music. Love, sadness, lonliness, just funky sounds, controversy, everyting. He still, to me, is the best.

Have Dr Dre produce him? WHY, so he sounds like M&M or Snoop Doggy Dog? What's wrong with Prince being Prince, whatever stage he happens to be in???

I enjoy him. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he says or does. There are things I defnitely don't agree with. But I respect his work, his art. It is great when anyone can get to a place in his/her life where they do what love, love themselves and are happy.

He touches my soul with his music. I hope he continues to do so for a long time. I hope he never sells himself out to make more people happy. That would be a big mistake.


Why, really, would any of us want him to be someone he is not? Those that want him to be molded by Dr Dre, do you want someone coming in your life changing you???

Icenine said:

I will jot that down as one of my favorite quotes.

Yes, he is a terrible businessman. We've known that for many years. I think the label independence & NPGMC were the right direction and concept, but I don't think he has the business skills to pull it off brilliantly. (Great ideas, poor implementation.) The sad thing to me is that he doesn't really need to be a good businessman if he could simply hire one or two good people to handle the club and manage his affairs. I think that one of Prince's fundamental problems is that he puts his trust in the wrong people. We see that in his business, and (IMHO) we see that in his new-found religious beliefs.

Ah . . . . but I can hope that one day he accidentally hires someone with the talent to get it all together.

I could not agree with you more.

Prince wouldn't have had to "get free" if he had a lick of business sense.

He's an amazing musician. He's a horrible businessman. He's a horrible film-maker. He should have been shot for "Graffiti Bridge".

That's been his biggest problem. His ego allows him to think that he can do everything. He can't.

When things were great with Warner, he got stupid. Madonna and Michael Jackson had both signed huge deals, so he had to keep up with the joneses. The deal he signed was stupid, but it totally fed into his ego. They made him a vice president and gave him ANOTHER label (which never got off of the ground, due to the fact that Paisley Park NEVER made any money). But Warner wasn't stupid. They put sales quotas in the deal. And he thought that he could pull it off.

He couldn't. He started putting out some mediocre records, and wanted to do MORE mediocre records. It costs money to release records. Lots of money. And when the label doesn't make that money back, it's bad business on THEIR part to keep throwing it away. They should have dropped him. They didn't want to do that. They only thing they wanted him to do was slow down and put out an album a year. Which he had been doing from the beginning. So what did he do? Whine like a baby about being a "slave", until Warner let him out when they didn't have to do that. He still owed them records.

After all that whining about wanting to get free from a major, he ran back and did it not ONCE but TWICE! So now it's gotten to the point that a major won't touch him.

It's his own dumb damn fault.

Its funny because I saw Prince on a talk show a year or so back commenting on the $20 million dollar record deal Mariah signed. He basically eluded that she got screwed.

Who's got the 20 million and who doesn't tho?

She signed for 20 mil, bombed a movie, and walked with all the money without doing a damn thing. THATS business! LOL

SkletonKee said:

Its ultimately more important.

jazzy328is said:

I don't believe that no matter how much he says it.

IceNine said:

I'd like to know exactly how you're so sure about that since he hasn't had a full fledged major label contract and promotion in years.

IceNine said:

Bwaaa Haaa Haaa!

Oh, IceNine, u kill me!


I agree with you 'bout 95%...

I think a few of the songs on Rave were pretty good, and with the right promotion could have done something. I honestly don't think Rave was promoted enough. "Baby Knows", "Hot Wit U" and "So Far, So Pleased" should have all been a singles, and this was with ARISTA!

I still say he has a shot with a major label...with the right recording and proper promotion.

Of course, that's if Prince wants 2 b there...again.