I'd like to hear every single song in the vault, but whether I will or not isn't up to me. I have to believe Prince knows there are a lot of people who would pay for those songs and live gigs if he chose to release them.

I know a lot of work goes into making a vault song ready for commercial release. I imagine that most of the songs in the vault now are anywhere from 25% - 75% ready in terms of commercial-release quality. We know that Prince is always creating, so if he takes the time to go back over his old catalogue, that takes away from creating something new. That's why I think we haven't seen a Crystal Ball II.

It doesn't seem to me that Prince had anything to do with the release of bootlegs. As soon as he ditched Warner Brothers, studio bootlegs seemed to vanish completely. That tells me that Warner Brothers' employees were the likely source of bootlegs - producers, engineers, pressing plants, maybe even executives. Hell, probably executives ("That little screwball wants more money? I'll fix him! Trixie, make up a package and a mailing label for a company called Moonraker!").

Prince is on the record saying his fans should not support bootleggers.

RodeoSchro said:

that's true, but he sure used to get a kick out of hearing fans singing along to lyrics to songs he'd not yet released (in particular at one off shows before the album releases for come and tge)...

i'm listening to connie c sing karaoke at the 2002 celebration right now while prince plays piano.

hearing the crowd respond to her singing, their ovation at the end, her saying thank you twice, and prince's amazement at the end...

if that's not reason enough for bootlegs, then i don't know what is.

Anxiety said:

suomynona said:

Um I think there is a very simple reason he hasn't done it yet...because he has almost nothing to gain by doing so yet. WB still owns the masters and as long as they do, he won't touch the music. I'm willing to bet that when he "goes for it" he will do so with the intension of getting every dime he can from them. If he waits until he has the masters, he gets MUCH more of the pie. He will be very rich if he waits to do it himself.

superspaceboy said:

yeah, he'll be able to buy 77 walkers with all of that money.

it's a good thing there are artists like joni mitchell who care more about their art than "being #1 at the bank."

suomynona said:

I think things will change once he gets past 50. He'll start being like Joni and Bob and David and just start reaping rewards he deserves. I also think that once he gets his masters we'll be seeing and hearing otherwise.

I don't think his JW beliefs are going to get in the way of re-releaseing his music no matter how dirty it is. He won't compromise his music like that...at least I hope he doesn't.

superspaceboy said:

i hope you're right, but i'm not holding my breath either.

suomynona said:

I shudder at the thought of him "cleaning up" and "rerecording" his masters and him giving us stuff like 1999 the new master.

superspaceboy said:

don't be dissing the return of tony m!

like i said earlier in this thread... i respect him as a musician, but it seems like he has his head up his ass when it comes to decisions like that.

suomynona said:

WHich is why he'll never have the fan base he desires.

Suomynona

Stars & Bars absolute classic!

"He doesnt want me 2 woop his hero Eric Clapton, but im gonna get up in that ass!"

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[Edited 12/8/05 16:05pm]

superspaceboy said:

sometimes it seems he'd rather have people talk about his hair than the music... it seems that it happens a lot around here anyways... and i haven't returned to the npgmc forums after attempting to read the gibberish over there. ugh.

youngyosh said:

not only that, but he should've released "dark" from that concert on "come" instead of the studio version... after listening to the live version for months before wbr released the album, the studio version literally sucks in comparison...

a song like that is written out of pain... and the studio version was emotionless... while the live version from that show... if you didn't get the emotion behind why that song was written when you heard his extended guitar solo at the end... then you're missing out on a lot as a prince fan.

at least he resurrected the guitar solo from the live version of "dark" in the studio version of "saviour"

KAB said:

And I thought I was the only one who felt this way in this forum!!

callimnate said:

i have to wonder how many of the boots i mentioned you and KAB have actually heard.

to say that you'd rather listen to "musicology" than "small club 2nd show that night" leads me to believe you've never heard it.

and i feel sad for those that haven't come across them yet...

superspaceboy said:

Unfortunately I think it's a bit late for that. Why do you think the Crystal Ball
DVD and Crystal Ball 2 CD never got released?



That's what I'm hoping too, that by the time he's in a position (or the right
mood) to re-issue his back catalogue, he won't be so hung up on the lyrical
content of some of his past creations.

PERSONALLY, I WOULD LOVE IT IF HE DID SAY, HEY, HERE IS THE LOVESEXY CONCERT -
LETS ADD ALL THE VIDEOS FROM LOVESEXY TO IT AND A COMENTARY TO IT AS BONUS' AND SELL IT ON THE SIGHT (AFTER A PRE-ORDER LIKE CRYSTAL BALL) FOR 30-50 BUCKS AND WHEN THEIR GONE THEIR GONE 4EVER.
AND WHAT EVER HAPPEND TO THE BEAUTIFUL STRANGE VIDEO (WASN'T THAT KINDA WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HIM DOING FROM TIME TO TIME)

HE COULD MAKE SOOOOO MUCH MONEY.

Anxiety said:

The birth of Jesus?

suomynona said:

well, without resorting to name-calling I also don't listen to the boots nearly as much as the official releases, including post-1990 stuff.

Don't get me wrong I'm glad to have them, and I'll have more in the future, but they do tend to collect alot of dust. There are some definite classics in the studio outtakes, but there's also alot of stuff that makes it easy to understand why it wasn't released.

BorisFishpaw said:

all fine and true but if u are aware of what might/does/will happen then is that just being too trusting ?

He certainly plugged the leaks in the last 10 years on purpose.

I think so he can release them by his method of discretion. And now, so we wont know whats vault or new.

Novabreaker said:

Universaluv said:

I agree totally , the outtakes are totally over-praised as a whole , yes theyre interesting and theres some gems in there , but as a whole Prince's outtakes vary in quality just as much as his officially released output . There's no bootleg collection or live show on CD out there that I've listened to more than Cds from his 1990s output .

suomynona said:

a silly comparison between one of Prince weakest studio albums and one of his best aftershows . I feel sorry for people who dismiss Prince's post- 1990 output out of hand personally , I've never been of the opinion that his 80s work is far superior to his 1990s , the very best stuff hes done in the 1990s stands up against his 80s work easily , if some people can't see that its their loss , not ours .

KAB:

moonshine:

i couldn't agree more, the two shouldn't be compared... yet that's what KAB said... hence my response.

the only person who would rather listen to anything officially released post-1990 simply hasn't heard very many bootlegs. (if any at all.)

suomynona said:

generalities on such a subjective topic is shaky territory.

Universaluv said:

i can't speak for KAB, but i for one was quite clear in what i was saying. if not, then i'll say it again. i'll take the following boots over anything released post-1989:
small club 2nd show that night
stars and bars (may 4, 1994)
glam slam west (june 26 & 27, 1994)
hapas on maui
birthday gig (1986)
emporium (march 21 & 22, 1995)
le bataclan (may 6, 1994)
live at the rex (sep 1, 1993)
open sessions (vol 1-4)
kaufleuten (aug 30, 1993)
paradiso (mar 25, 1995)
the park (vol 1-4)
the pod (mar 30, 1995)
le morning, paris june 14, 1987
this is my night (apr 12, 1993)
wonderboy
the honeymoon experience (feb 19, 1996)
and most of the 2nd celebration.

there might be more, but those are all i can think of off the top of my head.

Any thought as to why I still haven't heard First Avenue?

Anxiety said:

Agreed.

I personally always viewed boots as advertisement for Prince. I mean, those of us...erm...I mean, them who would go through the trouble of attaining the boots, are going to buy every legitimate thing he owns anyways.

Some of us..I mean, them, owned the black album back in 88/89 and then bought the legit copy in 93.

But I think Prince had a change of heart somewhere along the way. His newer material is much harder to attain. There's a lot less new material.

In the old days, we'd all have copies of Te Amo Clitorous months before the announced VH1 release. Today, it's pretty under wraps.

suomynona said:

I normally wouldn't respond to this type of statement, but I'm up late waiting for an eBay auction to end (not Prince related), and I've got some time to kill and absolutely nothing else to do...(I've read all the important info floating on the internet, read all the classics in my home, made essentials to send to less fortunate people, and reorganized my Prince CD collection to group them together by primary color...responding to this is the only thing I have left...)

I've been into Prince since about 1980, and I assure you I am in possession of every morsel of Prince music that is floating around. (For some reason everytime I would have someone send me blank tapes or CDs, a new group of outtakes or a different live show would mysteriously and miraculously appear on them before they arrived in my mailbox. I, of course, am ashamed to be have this contraband in my house, but the garbage men refuse to take it away...)

There are many of these illicit items that rank among the best I've heard from Prince, both outtakes and live shows (and though I enjoy this music for what it is, sometimes the illicit-nature itself seems to notch up my appreciation of it juuuuust a tiny bit)...

But...I LOVE much (actually most) of his post 1990 output...and I can also assure you that those who actually know me have compared me to or called me many things...pig...cow...chicken (both gender-neutral and male version)...and I'm sure other animals, both farm-related and not...but never a sheep.

Would I rather listen to the Gold Experience over 2nd Show? Depends on the day. But the beauty of it is I've never had anybody put a gun to my head to make me choose (the closest I've come is someone putting a slingshot to my elbow forcing to declare which version of "Witness 4 The Prosecution" I prefer)...I can put 2nd Show on and savor it, then put on the Come album...then listen to a configuration of Dream Factory in my left ear while the Rainbow Children plays in my right ear...and I can enjoy them all...

I also have much to say about Prince releasing "bootleg material" himself (of course he does...and he's also the secret publisher of all the fanzines that have come out, only suing Uptown to throw us off the trail)...but I'll save most of it for next week when my next late night auction is ending.