Abrazo said:

God, I hope you're right on that one... I'd love them to go all the way... although I know it would be naive to think they could, but wouldn't it be divine?!

Too bad! USA played well enought to win but unfortunately lacked the little bit of luck that's also needed... They can go home with their heads high, they lost with a lot of honor today compared to England.
I still hope for a Brazil vs. Spain final.

...said jalokin, the Danish geezer.

I agree we sucked mayor ass today...but what do you want to do? Nobody's gonna shoot any goal with Oliver Kahn being our keeper!

But Diva...it was no penalty, really. I'm being totally objective here. When the hand is moved to the ball, it's a penalty, but the ball jumped against the hand. But definitely bad luck for the US. But it's cool to see that the teams who have to go (Ireland, USA), can do so with their heads up.

And so now I can brag! The US has been defeated, just as I said, and Brazil sent home England.

And, yes, my friends, that means Brazil will win it all...

It is not a rarity to see the Germans win a match they didn't really deserve to win, but I have to give it to them, they have a winner mentality. And they are destined to meet Brazil in the final... and lose! lol

I really hope that the American team will get some of a welcome home when they get back to their country. I mean they were fantastic, who would have thought that it was possible for them to get so far?

Or Korea, even a bigger succes story. But Senegal will win from Turkey, it must be, because I predicted it...

calldapplwondery83 said:

That's simply incorrect. Check FIFA's rules of the game... the referee and linesman did not see it, but it was a penalty. You are correct that a penalty should not normally be called if the ball plays the hand in the penalty area, however, in this case, (i) the defender's hand was extended from his body, and (ii) Germany clearly was advantaged, as the ball was going accross the line when it hit his hand. The only debate here is whether the ball actually crossed the line. Alternatively, it was a penalty. As Franz Beckenbauer said after the game: "'It's actually a clear penalty kick when one's hand touches the ball on the goal line. It should have been a penalty."

Germany was lucky and did not deserve to win. That being said, those are the breaks, and the US has nothing to complain about. Sometimes referees miss calls and that is part of the game. Unlike those Italian and Mexican crybabies, the Bruce Arena and the US team showed class. You will never hear them complain about that call, even if it was a mistake.

7salles said:

No, no, no... the great players are not old at all! Well okay Van Basten Gullit and Rijkaard don't play no more, they are coaching right now. But Holland has had a pretty consistent line of providing new young talent with an oppurtunity to become big. Right now we have for example Ruud van Nistelrooy, topscorer in the premier league from Manchester United. we have guys playing with Barcelona, Italy etc, etc

It is always the same...If one of our national clubs does good in the Champions league for example, then the spanish, italian and english clubs buy the players away and give them huge salaries, houses, boats, cars, women, stardom, you know the entire whooplala.
But this has made the younger generation way too arrogant and lazy, only really prepared to fight for their club teams and when they have to fight for the country thery are itred and get into endless silly arguments and shit.

so the team spirit was lacking seriously.
The Irish, like the Koreans, are very good at building a strong team spirit and letting it drive them to victory, allthough they are technically weaker players. They still kicked Holland's ass and i can't say much else than that they deserved it.

Diva said:

The great thing is that they will be playing Brazil in the semi finals and that will be a superb match to watch, I'm sure. But they will not win... Brazil will become world champion you know...

BanishedBrian said:

You might be right, maybe the referee didn't see the hand as being extended from the body in this case.
Anyway, I think it's stupid to have such situations in a match. The victory has some kind of a bad aftertaste.

Abrazo said:

I think it is a little unfair to keep going about the great "spirit" of the Irish team while saying that they don't have talent or skill. Look at players like Damien Duff, Matt Holland, Robbie Keane, Shay Given, Niall Quinn, Steve Staunton, Jason McAteer ... all great players

I will concede though that the Irish team's greatest asset was their drive, their determination, their fighting Irish "spirit" and how well the team worked together but I think that shouldn't be used to detract from the abilities of some very talented players.

everybody...

they're coming home, they're coming home, they're coming,

englands coming home

posh spice, jamie oliver, queen elizabeth, tim henman, the sun, the daily mail, tony blair, can you hear me tony blair,

your boys took a hell of a beating

england and the usa out, good triumphs over evil

npgsmfc said:

good work fella !!!

At this time I would like 2 say...


FUCK!!!

I would also like 2 ask the Brits 2 join us in a moving rendition of 99 Bottles Of Beer On The Wall..then we'll all get drunk enough 2 not care anymore.

.........


[This message was edited Fri Jun 21 12:53:04 PDT 2002 by Nep2nes]

ian said:

I didn't say the Irish had no talent Ian! only less , but with much more team spirit,
that did made them better than the dutch.

oh well, my all-anglophone, US-England WCup Final bubble has burst..

it was a nice dream while it lasted.

the 1 good thing about this is that now I can
GET MORE SLEEP.
(for the Final, I'll wake up in time to see all of..
the 2nd half?)

I thought that if the US had scored 1st, they would've had a really good chance to win..
in like the 90th minute, we all almost freaked out, that last shot looked like it was IN!
Still, I'm proud of my boys. The US has raised its own standard. Now we're going to expect them to get AT LEAST this far in Germany in '06.
Damn. With Germany "at home" in '06, they HAVE TO be
OVERWHELMING favorites to win it all..
damn..


in an earlier post here, someone said that with this good showing by the US (was it Ian?) Americans should get more into "soccer"..
well, to give non-Americans an idea of why "soccer" is still a "2nd level" sport here in the US in terms of (tv & overall) popularity.. I'm pasting in an article in today's Washington Post.




Missing The Point of Soccer

By Paul Farhi


Watching the extraordinary dexterity of the American soccer team this morning, the pinpoint passing of the Germans, and the general ability of world-class players to manipulate the action like a three-card monte dealer, you may be struck by the following thought:

If these guys are so good, how come nobody can score? Why are goals so rare in a sport in which the net is roughly the size of a freight car?

These are, we realize, very American questions, equivalent in their rudeness and rube-ness to inquiring of a new acquaintance, "How much money do you make?" We know that true soccer fans appreciate the process of the game, the exquisite drama and splendid tension -- not just the
payoff. To them, all that buildup is a metaphor for sex.

But bear with us, soccer fanatics. The rest of us have a hard time dealing with a game that typically ends 1-nil or 2-1. We aren't used to having a 3-0 contest described as "a blowout."

This is the great American complaint about soccer, the thing that -- notwithstanding a miracle-on-grass run to glory for the U.S. World Cup team -- keeps American fans from embracing soccer.

"Ultimately, for American sports tastes there just isn't enough scoring," says Bob Dorfman, a San Francisco adman who writes the Sports Marketers Scouting Report. "This whole country is about scoring, and I mean that in every sense of the word." Soccer, he says, "is too esoteric."

More than just liking scoring, we have been conditioned to expect it from our major sports, and are disappointed when we don't get more of it. We do not wince when, as in the last NBA All-Star Game, the West beats the East, 135-120. Or when the NFL rigs its rules to prohibit
defensive backs from touching wide receivers near the line of scrimmage (to encourage more passing). Or when Major League Baseball sets off a home run derby by lowering the pitcher's mound, building tiny new ballparks and trimming the strike zone.

Call us superficial, but we like quantity and quality, sizzle and steak. We'll tolerate process -- the time-consuming drive down the field, the pinch-hitter/relief pitcher tango -- as long as there's a reasonable expectation of a payoff. Which there usually is. That's why the sports gods invented the 24-second clock, the forward pass, and steroids.

Soccer people have heard all this before. The criticism alternately annoys, amuses and saddens them.

"I know Americans are used to being catered to. We love the money shot," says Alexi Lalas, a two-time World Cup player for the United States and now with Major League Soccer's Los Angeles Galaxy. "But soccer requires an intellect and patience, and an appreciation of things that
aren't blatant and in your face."

Ray Hudson, the delightfully voluble coach of D.C. United, calls the prevailing American attitude "a little bit vulgar. . . . I don't want to be insulting, but it's a subtle game, and I wonder if the American sports mentality is not attuned to that kind of subtlety and fluidity."

Adds Taylor Twellman, a former University of Maryland star now with the MLS's New England evolution. "Criticizing soccer for not enough scoring is just a cheap way of saying, 'I don't understand the game. I don't want to watch it.' It's not a boring game, if you understand it."

"It's funny," Twellman says. "You don't hear the same criticism about hockey. What's the difference between soccer and NHL hockey?"

(Actually, there's quite a bit of difference. The NHL champion Detroit Red Wings averaged 3.1 goals per game this season. The MLS's two division-leading teams, the San Jose Earthquakes and the Columbus Crew, are averaging 1.46 and 1.38 goals per match, respectively. The Women's United Soccer Association's best team, the Philadelphia Charge, is chugging along at 1.9 goals per game.)

Twellman, the MLS's co-leader in scoring this season, says he's never given much thought to why it's so hard to score. It might be, he says, because "there are 11 guys trying to stop one ball from going into the net."

Of course that's true also of football, where it's not unreasonable to expect five or six scores a game. It's also true of hockey (six defensive players, smaller net), basketball (five defenders, even smaller net), and baseball (nine, no net).

The key difference between those sports and soccer probably lies in the relative number of scoring chances in each game.

Football players, after all, can score in many different ways (on offense, on defense, by running or passing or kicking, from close-in or far away). Basketball players can dribble or pass the ball to within a few feet of the basket, or failing that, spot up for a shot from the
perimeter. Hockey is played at lightning speed on a relatively small rink, with a puck that can be sent goalward at 120 mph. Baseball teams have, at minimum, at least 27 chances to score.

Not so soccer. The sheer vastness of the field (up to 80 yards by 120 yards in international play) works against constant shots on goal. What's more, the window of opportunity is tiny. Most successful shots occur within a small parcel of turf, and usually at angles not much wider
than 45 degrees relative to the goal mouth. This zone, naturally, is the most intensely defended part of the field. It's also where the goalie, who can use his hands, exercises an enormous advantage over everyone else.

So everything has to converge perfectly for a scoring chance, let alone a goal. This alignment of players, passes and position is the process that soccer purists savor. Sure, the goal is eight yards wide, but just try maneuvering the ball into the precise position for a header or bicycle kick to the back of the net.

"The consummate challenge of this game is to defy the odds against you," says Hudson. "What excites the crowd, and draws the oohs and aahs, is this wonderful, creative process of setting up the final pass. . . . Goals are like gravy. But it's the meat that counts."

This isn't to say soccer fans don't appreciate scoring. Every soccer-playing nation lionizes its great goal scorers (Pele, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Beckham, etc.), just as Americans lionize home run sluggers and Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks.

But unlike American sports bureaucrats, soccer's ruling class is loath to monkey with the game to foster more scoring. No one has suggested shrinking the field, or making the goal the size of a barn, or forcing defenders to wear clown shoes. The last time FIFA, the international
soccer body, changed anything substantial was in 1994, when it enacted a rule designed to prevent time-killing.

Says Hudson, "We've started to enlighten people to the fact that soccer is a cliff-hanging game, that one goal can rejuvenate a nation, can make an economy burst through the ceiling, and can turn around an entire country's morale."

He waits a beat, setting himself up for the high-percentage shot: "Just one goal."




Me, I'll always be down for the World Cup from now on.. or for any other matches between countries. Despite me giving the '06 title to Germany already, I'm looking forward to that tournament..



allez Senegal. rah, rah, rah.



is it NFL preseason time yet?

Something for England fans:
BBC News Online
Reasons to be cheerful:

It's the summer, Tim Henman is returning to Wimbledon and we've just been booted out of the World Cup by the greatest footballing nation ever.

Well it isn't that hard to accept defeat say psychologists. In fact it's quite easy to turn losing into something to value.

Not that they're recommending the eternal gloom of Scotland fans. But the first step to happiness is to stop dreaming England were actually going to win something for once and learn a little from the great Sven.

And if we follow these simple steps, by the time the players walk down the aircraft steps at Heathrow we'll all be in a better frame of mind - even if it is raining.

1. Recognise players and fans are mentally different

Psychologists say that while we may be miserable in the coming weeks, the England squad have been through the sporting equivalent of a war.
Hurrah for rain: Ally against Wimbledon defeat

They've had to juggle national expectations and individual determination, while we've just been juggling our work hours to get to the pub.

Professor Dave Collins, an expert in sports performance at the University of Edinburgh, says fans have completely different expectations to players and this affects how they deal with defeat. Top players develop "mission mentality" and cope with differences between national expectation and reality. We the fans, on the other hand, are a bit useless in this department.

"Major championships are very odd. It's like being in a bubble," says Prof Collins.

"It's like the Vietnam experience or the First World War. Outside there is relative calm. Then the players are put into this cauldron and then taken out again."

One of the best ideas for both fans and the players would be to repeat the welcome that Ireland's team were given when they returned home after defeat.

"Ireland was able to say, 'look at us, we have worth, we did fantastic," says Prof Collins.

"Everyone has to find a perspective and say things like, 'We did well, we got knocked out but we didn't do badly."

2. Stop trying to imagine you were on the pitch with them

Carole Seheult, a consultant sports psychologist, says the deflation experienced by fans is often of their own making.
Masterful influence: Can he work it on fans too?
"Fans just don't know what goes into making a Beckham or an Owen. They don't know anything about the hard work," says Mrs Seheult who knows a thing or two about how footballers tick.

"Fans think that they identify with the players and so their hopes become unrealistic. Beckham and the boys knew how hard it was going to be, they knew the score with Brazil."

3. Learn to think like Sven

The key remedy for helping to overcome feelings of national trauma and loss is to learn to think like Sven, says Carole Seheult.
No Sven required: This fan knows the way of Eriksson

"I have read Sven's book [Sven-Goran Eriksson on Football]. David Beckham is now talking like that book. He is saying things and has a perspective that he never had before.

"Sven's influence is rubbing off on the players. He talks about learning to show respect for things that are worth respecting.

"If Brazil go on to win, then we should take pride in recognising that we were only beaten by the best team in the world."

4. We weren't even on the plane a year ago

Not really a psychologist, but Alan Bloore of the fans' new body-in-waiting, the Football Supporter's Federation, knows a thing or two on this.

"About 18 months ago, we looked down and out at that stage with no chance of getting to the World Cup," he says.

"Then Sven came along and look what happened. But then we were drawn in the Group of Death. They said that we wouldn't make it, but we did - and came through with flying colours.
"I think teams always need a bit of luck but Sven's ran out this morning."

5. There's a corner of a foreign field that's forever England

Our travelling fans have been a credit to the nation and have changed perceptions of who really represents England and its people abroad.
The world loves you: Fans have done us proud
"We've all worked hard for the past few years on this and you've seen the results with how our supporters behaved at the World Cup," says Alan Bloore.
"They all went out there to enjoy themselves.
"Not only that, but they became part of the local culture and were welcomed by all they met.
When we welcome back the England team, we should also welcome back the fans who have done us proud."

6. Reasons to be cheerful if you are Scottish:
I shan't be uncharitable and suggest that Scots weren't cheering on the home nation in the finals - that would be clearly untrue. We appreciate that you share the pain.
But, you have indeed been spared the ultimate horror: England fans finding something else to go on about other than 1966. What a blessing in disguise this defeat is for the future of the Union...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/spo...rldcup2002

Nep2nes said:

Can I join in?

Australia were knocked out before the finals by Uraguay (sp?). I've been drunk ever since!
.
.

[This message was edited Fri Jun 21 17:09:01 PDT 2002 by bkw]

Brazil were by far the better team and deserved their win. The only reason England even scored was due to a monumental defensive fuck up by Brazil. They never looked like scoring again.

As randomduck said earlier, where were England for the last 25-30 minutes when they had an extra player?

In the other game, The USA were unlucky and deserved to win. Germany play less attractive football than England. I hope Spain plays them in the semi and beats them.

A Spain v Brazil fianl would be very entertaining. One for the purists.

Come on Sth. Korea let's make the second half more interesting!

ian said:

I agree.

So you're watching it now too ay?

Abrazo said:

Abrazo, your prediction was wrong! *shock and horror* !

Eeeek... now I don't know how much faith to put in your prediction of Senegal winning tonight.. !

I think it's a beautiful thing that South Korea are progressing the way they are... Let's hope Senegal can also work their magic tonight...

Korea beats Spain -
and Italy AND Portugal AND Poland

How lucky can they be !!!

But I guess their next game against Germany mightn't
be so lucky

Whoever said Senegal will beat Turkey look to be right on !

25 minutes through the 2nd half and Turkey are playing like absolute crap... They have missed about 5 simple goals for no apparent reason, except it seems they prefer falling down than scoring goals...

GO SENEGAL !!!


Oh by the way

I HATE SPORT

bkw said:

Yeah I'm vegging out in front of the TV with my laptop and enjoying a world cup weekend

Congrats to Sth Korea ... and commiserations to Spain. Going out in a penalty shootout is always tough (ahem) but Sth. Korea played well throughout the tournament so I'm looking forward to seeing them in the semis!

Watching the Senegal v Turkey match now ... bit boring!

I can't believe how bad Turkey is playing, they have missed every single goal opportunity they have had - and they have had ALOT !

I have seen 5 year olds at the local park play better than Turkey is playing tonight - How the hell did they get into the World Cup - Whoever Turkey beat to get this far must have been bloody absolute garbage !!!

Well Turkey VS Senegal still 0-0 and 1 minute left to go

Will this go down the same as Korea VS Spain

- penalties ?

Well in the biggest load of crap ever

Turkey won against Senegal by a huge fluke goal
I don't blame the Senegal goalkeeper for not even expecting the ball to come at him - it would have been the first time in 2 hours !

So I guess it will be a Brazil v Germany final then

Essence said:



Ireland it was "Got A Broken heart AGAIN"...


That was uncalled for. We were written off before we landed in Japan. We proved that we can stand up to the best of them. We will be back. And Roy Keane can fuck off too.

Hail Mick McCarthy

FunkyStrange said:

wow, you're upset. you got no reason though. so maybe turkey didn't use their oppotunities to score - but at least they created oppotunities which is something you can't say about senegal. senegal had a few individual tries at the turkish goal alright but turkey won as a TEAM and in the end there was not doubt that turkey and not senegal deserved to win this one. turkey totally ruled the midfield and created the danm match. so please stop that stupid whining.

if you have to whine so much then whine for spain. they actually have a reason to be bitter.


...said jalokin, the Danish geezer.

ian said:

That looks entirely likely.

It would be graet though if south Korea could win their semi and meet Brazil in the final.