Should he have CHANGED his FORMULA with ATWIAD,PARADE and LOVESEXY?

No,they were great! He should have changed his formula with GRAFFITI BRIDGE!

um , in a word, no, he would have failed coz that music would have had less appeal than the symbol or dandp in the 90s

nah. the one thing that i like about the cat is that he don't stay put.

He would have had much more success if he hadn't changed his formula. The perfect time to make a change would have been in the 1990s. By then, albums like "Around The World In A Day", "Parade", "Sign O The Times", and "Lovesexy" would have been better than anything else on the radio and we still would have gotten more hardcore funk in the late 1980s.

He was such a big influence on other R&B artists in the early 1980s. With the "old Prince" still going strong in the late 1980s, who knows, maybe the newcomers would have been influenced by Prince instead of the damn balladeers of that era.
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[Edited 11/17/05 17:30pm]

OBVIOUSLY YES! Prince is a real artist though so he is always changing his style.

I often wonder what would have happened if he had NOT changed his sound in the mid-80s.Did he move on from "the Minneapolis Sound" too soon? Did it hurt his career and his record sales?

Question: WHAT FORMULA??

To the trained ear "Dirty Mind" "Controversy" "1999" and "Purple Rain" are progressions on each other more than they are similar or "formulaic" albums. "Around the World in a Day" is just as much of a progression/departure of "Purple Rain" as "Purple Rain is from "1999". The man is still using that linn drum machine on all the songs.

So again I ask: What formula? The thing that made Prince so great is that he didn't "stick to formula". Save that shit for Michael Jackson and Madonna.

"Kiss" was a #1 hit. How many #1's did "Dirty Mind" "Controversy" or "1999" have? Was "kiss" formula? No. It was that sparse "parade" sound. Prince would have been a lot more boring if the follow up to "Purple Rain" would have sounded the same. In 1985 everyone was aping Prince's sound anyways-so why try to sound like that? Prince was cool because he didn't restrict HIS MPLS sound to being the same played out crap everyone else started copying. He was always at least 2 years ahead of the rest and 3 planets removed---that's one of the best things about him.
[Edited 11/18/05 8:21am]

Marvin Gaye changed. Miles changed. If Prince didn't change, what would separate him from anyone else?

vainandy said:

Agreed.

Well, if he stayed with THE 1999 Vibe Man would he have had BETTER SUCCESSS? What do ya think with MADONNA ? She ALWAYS just stayed DANCE ORIENTED and GAY FRIENDLY...Or if PRINCE NEVER went into a LOVESEXY/GRAFFITI BRIDGE RAINBOW CHILDREN. I Happen to LOVe it,but did it HURT HIS SALES?
[Edited 11/18/05 9:52am]

To be clear, if Prince wanted BIGGER sales he could have kept doing "Purple Rain" over and over again and he would have been trapped-just like MJ got trapped trying to recapture "Thriller".

My definition of success is not necessarily big sales or chart success. I think Prince usually about as "successful" as he wants to be. 2004 proved that.

So what is your definition of success? Doing the same shit over and over again is not what I call "Success".

OdysseyMiles said:

skywalker said:

He didn't have to do Purple rain all the time but he could have kept it in the same vein as 1999 era and went from there instead of full throttle 180.

We all love ATWIAD now in retrospect but come on. That album was bullshit back then after going form Contorversy, 1999, and Purple Rain. For the fans my azz.

Hell, I remember being pissed at Purple Rain.

Prince pleaaaaase release follow-up to 1999!! That's the true second coming.

Exactly. People are going to sing that song....."Do you want Prince to keep making Purple Rain over and over"....because it's the same excuse Prince was giving when he was criticized back in the day for changing his style.

In order to stop any criticism, Prince, as well as many of his current fans, love to conveniently forget that there was a hardcore loyal following long before "Purple Rain" and put them in the same boat with the casual fans that came aboard during "Little Red Corvette" and left after "Purple Rain".



Exactly. Great as the album may be, 1985 was definately the wrong time to release it. This thread is asking if Prince would be more successful if he had never changed his style...not are they happy that he changed it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he would have been much more successful if he hadn't. Hell, just ask all the ex-fans.



I was OK with "Purple Rain" at the time. After the pop success of "Little Red Corvette", I was scared that Prince was going to go all "Lionel Richie" but he didn't. I found "Purple Rain" to be a purposely slightly weaker version of "1999" for pop appeal with more rock and less funk but it still had great Minneapolis Sound.



After "Around The World In A Day" didn't take off, I figured Prince would come back and that follow-up album to "1999" is the one I kept thinking he was going to release when "Parade", "Sign O The Times", and "Lovesexy" came out. After "Lovesexy" I gave up on it. The problem is he made too much money with "Purple Rain". If he didn't have all that money at the time, he would have either released it or went broke. As far as the responses that will come to this...."I just want Prince to be happy"....well, I am a consumer, I just want me to be happy.
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[Edited 11/18/05 14:56pm]

Short term it hurt his sales. Long term it helped his legend.

Well, I hope Ushers next album is full of opera just to show the world he is a true musican. Maybe Madonna's next 3 albums following Like A Virgin, should have been gospel. Oh I know, Michael Jackson should have released a blue grass album immediately after Thriller just so he could show the world he was a real vocalist. Think about it. How do you think it would have affected their careers? What would their hard core fans think? I mean they are hard core fans because of the type of music those artist released up until that point. Now their favorite artists goes completely left field. I'm sure it would piss a lot of them off and those artist would definetly loose some fans. Is this some sort of dream.....no, this actually happened with those of us that loved Prince before main stream America discovered him.

IMO, Prince's dramatic change in style IMMEDIATELY following Purple Rain is a move I think he is STILL paying for. I hate to say that because I love ATWIAD (now), but Prince went so far left until he alienated a lot of his supporters, although he gained others particularly in Europe. I believe Prince's ego after Purple Rain got so out of control, he figured anything he produced was a masterpiece and the world would love it no matter what it was. He took for granted that people would blindly love anything he does and when they didn't/don't he gets mad and blame the fans. He did the same thing with the LoveSexy Tour. Prince had gone so far left, he alienated a lot of people and they didn't show up for the concerts in America like they did for Purple Rain. And if you guys remember, Prince was so mad at the American Fans for not coming to see him during that period, he swore to never Tour the United States again. And he didn't, officially for 9 years.

As much success and respect Prince enjoys now, I think it would have been even more had he not changed so dramatically AT THE TIME he did. The timing was all wrong.

By the way, No one please bring up the success of Raspberry Beret and Kiss, at that point, I think any FIRST single Prince after Purple Rain, would have been a hit. If the first single off of the ATWIAD album was 'Horny Pony', it would have gone to number 1. Lets be real here.

Universaluv said:

If he didn't do a left turn his legend could have been even greater. And maybe even greater-yes, greater-songs.

He should have waited tp do the 180 much later as someone else mentioned imo.

Okay old fans who are still bitter about "Around the World in a day" please raise your hands. Thank you.

1. Again, what formula?

Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain don't all sound the same as each other--each album is a progression as well as departure from the previous album,-just as "Around the World in a Day" was. Don't get scared he just added violins to the mix. I know it's not a synth but natural instruments are okay too. It's still the MPLS sound.

2. Someone mentioned that any single following "Purple Rain" would have been #1. "Raspberry Beret" didn't hit # 1 so there goes that theory. Again, "kiss" didn't stick to formula but it was #1. Not, that a "hit" necessarily equals success.

3. Please stop pretending that "Dirty Mind" "Controversy" and "1999" were more successful/popular than anything that came after "Purple Rain". Sure, you may have liked those albums better (and Prince's "formula") but the fact is that those albums sold less initially than "Around The world in a Day" "Parade" "Sign O' the Times" and "Lovesexy" -especially when you consider the charts in Europe.
As much as I love "Dirty Mind" the album didn't even go platinum until after "Purple Rain".

You people claim that Prince would have been more "successful" if he had "Stuck to formula". What does that even mean? Stuck to your expectations? Played it safe? Make songs like "Oh Sheila"? Bottom line: Hindsight is 20/20. Prince could have also been called a hack for copying himself, but instead he is called visionary.

I agree that by bucking what most expected he expanded his legend. Too bad it pissed off a bunch of fans who (like some fans today) think that if they handled Prince's career they'd do better.

I think Prince is about as famous/successful as he can be especially since he still has artistic integrity. Can you say the same for many more who were hot shit in '85?

I don't see these three albums as being too similar. Well, DM is certainly a lot different than 1999 and PR and certainly wasn't very commercial(It's like sold like 500K ever in the US, right?). He could've copied 1999/PR stuff for the rest of the 80's and been more successful, but he just wouldn't be PRince anymore. Prince is too cool to stick with one tired old formula no matter how good and how successful. I doubt he'd be as critically acclaimed also. Part of his respect from others comes from the fact that he makes his own music whether it's popular or not.

DMSR..... I DON"T CARE TO WIN AWARDS.... ALL I WANNA DO IS DANCE , MAKE MUSIC, SEX, ROMANCE TRY NOT TO EVER GET BORED..... SUMS it UP.

skywalker said:

The force is with you Skywalker...but you're not a jedi yet


1. Not exactly a forumula was needed but as u stated a natural progression. While some feel ATWIAD was a progression to different approach and utilizing "real" instruments, it was a leap down fomr th e momentum of C, 1999, and PR. Though it seems daunting wondering what to do for an encore of PR, a total drop from the apex was unnerving. It's like an off-shoot album. A blistering synth fried geetar rock forumla progression cold have been more succesful with the public, not just the sleeper hit ATWIAD was.

2.I didn't mention anythinig about no.1's. But he had the world at his feet waiting formhim to lead them to th e next phase of whatever that would be. He didn't. Instead he went back to the 60's with ATWIAD material and vibe. While some say he did progress with ATWIAD, he actually regressed by going back to the past for HISA future instead of continuing the Purple Future vibe he had already created with 1999 and parts of PR. Its like he did guide us to/thru the purple rain abd then he said ok now we are going to play hockey.

3. Nobody said Contorversy, 1999 et.al were more popular than anything after Rain. If he had kept that vibe he may have been more popular. Plus, Parade wasn't as popular as 1999. Neither was ATWIAD or not that much if it was. And ATWIAD was propelled by the newer fickle fans of PR. he could have built on 1999 vibe instead of seemingly being erratic throughout the mid 80's. His audience never got a handle and some left, some came on board.

4. Sticlking to his formula doesn't exactly mean doing Oh Sheila..it means taking it above and beyond that, which I dont think he did. I mean even his shows at th e toime were rmeiniscent of old time James brown shows. Where 1999 was a stone cold future opf rnb and rock, he ended up going backward instead of taking it to another level: think Zoo TV Prince style.


Fact of th ematter is, Prince is too out the norm to ever have been a Rolling Stones or a U2 anyways. But he could have came close, close to that if he had done it differently. And nobody is saying he doesn't have credibility for not doing so. He has it and is legendary. And he could still be legendary and credible if he did do the formula. All thats being siad here is he probably could have been more popular if ...."he gave people what they wanted instead of what they needed"-Prince

Kept formula the hell. What hold my attention was Prince's diversity.

If he was to do 1999 three times in a row, i would be tired of him quickly, in the begining.

skywalker said:

prince changes, and that's good, to explore life

The force is with you Skywalker...but you're not a jedi yet


1. Not exactly a forumula was needed but as u stated a natural progression. While some feel ATWIAD was a progression to different approach and utilizing "real" instruments, it was a leap down fomr th e momentum of C, 1999, and PR. Though it seems daunting wondering what to do for an encore of PR, a total drop from the apex was unnerving. It's like an off-shoot album. A blistering synth fried geetar rock forumla progression cold have been more succesful with the public, not just the sleeper hit ATWIAD was.

2.I didn't mention anythinig about no.1's. But he had the world at his feet waiting formhim to lead them to th e next phase of whatever that would be. He didn't. Instead he went back to the 60's with ATWIAD material and vibe. While some say he did progress with ATWIAD, he actually regressed by going back to the past for HISA future instead of continuing the Purple Future vibe he had already created with 1999 and parts of PR. Its like he did guide us to/thru the purple rain abd then he said ok now we are going to play hockey.

3. Nobody said Contorversy, 1999 et.al were more popular than anything after Rain. If he had kept that vibe he may have been more popular. Plus, Parade wasn't as popular as 1999. Neither was ATWIAD or not that much if it was. And ATWIAD was propelled by the newer fickle fans of PR. he could have built on 1999 vibe instead of seemingly being erratic throughout the mid 80's. His audience never got a handle and some left, some came on board.

4. Sticlking to his formula doesn't exactly mean doing Oh Sheila..it means taking it above and beyond that, which I dont think he did. I mean even his shows at th e toime were rmeiniscent of old time James brown shows. Where 1999 was a stone cold future opf rnb and rock, he ended up going backward instead of taking it to another level: think Zoo TV Prince style.


Fact of th ematter is, Prince is too out the norm to ever have been a Rolling Stones or a U2 anyways. But he could have came close, close to that if he had done it differently. And nobody is saying he doesn't have credibility for not doing so. He has it and is legendary. And he could still be legendary and credible if he did do the formula. All thats being siad here is he probably could have been more popular if ...."he gave people what they wanted instead of what they needed"-Prince

get real! is prince making music for you? NO! It' for him, he is an true artist!!, he is not going for a popular quest to become mayor!! Popularity is fragile and shallow, Prince does what he feels! Get it??
[Edited 11/19/05 4:09am]

Yes, each album does sound different.....similar but different.



That was exactly the problem. He added instruments that were considered "uncool". Prince's audience at the time was the same as any other mainstream artist of that era. It was people in their teens, 20s, and even a few in their 30s. The average person in this age group is not into classical music and does not want to hear anything that resembles it in the slightest.




It may have made him a star in Europe but it ruined him here in the United States. A lot of people in Europe have a broader taste range than we do here.

The change also almost buried him in the R&B world which he was on top of before the change. He went from being the baddest thing on R&B radio to the biggest joke on R&B radio. DJs in my area were having a field day playing snips of "Do U Lie" and asking callers to call in and answer the question "What the hell happened to him?"



Yeah, after the pop world finally discovered who he was.




Michael Jackson continued to be successful and still could be if his personal life had not turned him into a joke. Madonna is still going on strong. Very few artists of that era are still around because music as a whole changed for the worst.

Prince, today, is not the big star that he used to be either. The reason for his success last year is because he performed the old hits in concert and threatened never to perform them again. If the concert had been all new material, it would have bombed. "Musicology" album sales were also increased because the price of it was included in the concert ticket. This is nothing new. Prince has always been clever enough to make money with tricks. Just look at releasing "Around The World In A Day" without a lead single to warn the fans that he had changed his style. Also, making a funky "old Prince" sounding lead single like "Kiss" and then the album is full of "artsy/fartsy" far out stuff. Prince has always been clever enough to still make money even when he knows people aren't going to like his album.

Oh, I love you! You hit the nail right on the head.

THR REVIEWS at the time ...The CRITICS were like ATWIAD????? They CALLED IT PRINCE'S BEATLES PHASE...His SGT PEPPER. His SALES DID SLIP. I for one Loved all the different INSTUMENTATION. BUT, I think THE RECORD COMPANY was COUNTING ON PRINCE to STAY WITH THAT PURPLE RAIN ROCK SOUND. VAIN ANDY I AGREE with you about what you said but Probably WARNER BROTHERS Picked the SINGLES to be RELEASED. I know fans who COULDN"T STAND PARADE that much except for say ANOTHERLOVER.

Well, if Prince is not making music for us and making it strictly for himself, then why is he selling it to the public? He sold it, we bought it, and we are voicing our opinions about it.

And if That was TRUE THEN WE WOULDN"T REALLY RELATE RIGHT or BUY IT IF IT WAS ONLY for HIM....KInda Foolish a COMMENT. I think he's just Really IN THE MOMENT and HIS SURROUNDINGS. He has to take SOCIETY INTO ACCOUNT Ya KNow. He Can't Just Create FANTASY BULLSHIT.... Otherwise he would just NEW AGEY...