metalorange said:

At least someone has taken the time to actually listen to the line and don't just assume it's "past"

metalorange said:

God.

There is also no reason to rhyme 'last' with any other word than 'past'. Just because something isn't enunciated absolutely positively perfectly doesn't mean that's not what it IS!!!

Do you guys GET the song at all? Love isn't love until it's over. Most often we don't recognize what we have until it is gone. As in PAST. In perfect English the line would be "Love Is Not Love Until it is in the Past" Like Christopher Tracy after he DIED in the movie, which is what the song is about!!

Jeezuz.

Sometimes I think you guys just argue for the sake of it.
[Edited 11/2/05 11:55am]

A whole thread on this?!
The answer is definitely "past".
Nuff said.
Job done.
Next topic.

It's 'PAST'.

(DIRECT FROM THE SOURCE)

love

Jestyr said:

I was thinking the same thing. It's always sounded like 'past' to me, the
official lyrics are 'past', nothing else logical rhymes, where's the debate?

newpowerboy said:

Get the hearing checked .....

Definately ..... PAST

Universaluv said:

Little Red Corvette?

BorisFishpaw said:

Is it 'past' in the official lyrics? Yes.

Is it logical that it is 'past' because it rhymes with 'last'? Yes.

I think the people that have responded to my post are using assumptions to answer the question, rather than actually playing back that last word a few times and deciding for themselves.

Is it theoretically possible that 'past' was printed accidently? Yes. Perhaps Prince didn't supply the lyrics, perhaps he left it to someone else to transcribe the lyrics, perhaps it was a private joke. It's all 'possible'. For example, lyrics to Computer Blue were printed that were not included in the final cut of the song.

I still maintain that you should be able to hear the 'st' sound and you can't, even on several live recordings I've checked out. Did he just not bother to annunciate it? Possibly. Perhaps he also sings 'little red corveeee...' too and we all just fill in the 't' sound in our own heads.

One thing that you all MUST agree on - he doesn't sing 'past' on the ONA Live at the Alladin DVD. It sounds much more like 'had'. I know this for definite because you can clearly see his mouth is open when he sings the last word. It is impossible to pronounce a 'p' without having your mouth pursed.

I think sometimes he mumbles (for lack of a better word) lyrics intentionally...think of Erotic City and the fuck/funk debate.

metalorange said:

You haven't read the whole thread then. I explained the reason for that in my first response above:


Prince began changing many of his lyrics for live performances the late 90's. Originally, the lyric is 'past', however it is difficult to soften the essentially acapella hard "P" (as in the word "past") on a live mike, so he changes it to "had", since this is easier on the mike and the listener's ears.

metalorange said:

That's why he released that new single.
So you could tack it onto the end of the Parade album and have yo' damn 'sst'!

Jestyr said:

I did read your post - and I thought what a load of bollocks! No offense, but the idea that Prince changed this one word on this one song so that it was easier on the mike is just nonsense. He sings a whole set of acoustic songs and there are plenty of other hard consonant sounds in those songs that, strangely, he didn't feel the need to change.

"Hmmm, on the couch, that 'k' sound on couch is too harsh, I know I'll change it to.... hooch!"

I'm sorry, but if Prince wanted to sing 'past' I'm sure he could have, he could have held the note on the 'aaaaa' bit just as well.

In fact here are only a few occasions when Prince feels the need to change lyrics in his songs - for instance, updating 'dynasty' in Kiss into 'Sex In The City'. Mostly it is due to his religious beliefs and wanting to water down some of the more racier lyrics - such as 'Work your body like you want some more' in DMSR, or 'He's your saviour, and I'm the reason why' or 'christ' instead of 'cross' etc etc.

Neither of those examples apply to 'past'. There's really no reason to exchange it for 'had' at all since it basically has the same meaning, apart from your nonsense idea. So the question remains, why change it if it wasn't the original lyric? I still haven't found a live version where it is clearly 'past'. I think now he has never sung 'past' live, though if someone wants to provide me a link to a sound-bite proving otherwise, I'd accept that.

You still haven't said whether you believe it to be 'past' on the original simply because it is more logical and is the 'official' lyric or because you have gone and played the track recently and can clearly hear it is 'past'. Or will you admit that at least it is difficult to hear whichever word it is clearly?

You have said that he doesn't have to annunciate every word - that is fine, but usually that is for words in the middle of sentences, not the end - the last word of the song is one of the most important ones, and surely even you would have expected him to clearly enunciate this - as you have said, 'p' is a hard sound, yet you can't clearly hear it in the song, nor can you make out even the 's' sound - there's a difference between not enunciating a word fully and plain saying a different word, lyric sheet or no lyric sheet!

I doubt I can convince you, but I used to be so sure it was 'past' but now I really believe it has been 'had' all along. Why choose 'had' rather than the more logical 'past'? Perhaps because poets don't need to rhyme every word and it leaves a more unexpected, thoughtful twist at the end.

And for those of you that think this is a pointless, pedantic argument - well, I accept that, but which thread on prince.org isn't!

nayroo2002 said:

Ha, very witty! Good one!

metalorange said:

Listen jackass, I was a recording engineer for many years (I even worked at Sunset Sound in the 90's with the same mics and equipment Prince used for Parade) and worked with a LOT of people who found it necessary to use 'my nonsense, bollocks' idea to work around the limitations of live mics. Do you even know what a wind screen is? Every one that works in the recording business knows about this problem with hard P's. When this 'very important part' of the lyric comes up, it is completely isolated - acapella. The other hard consonants he sings in other songs are buried under other instruments which soften the sound of his air hitting the mic.

I bought Parade in March of 1986 and have listened to it more often than you can believe possible and even bought the Japanese version of it this year just to hear a better mastered CD and in my opinion, the word "past" is CLEARLY enunciated by both Prince and in the background by Lisa (who is delayed by just a hair) at the final moment of the song. Your ears need a good cleaning (not to mention a boxing for being so fucking rude). He changed it to "had" live BECAUSE it leaves the meaning intact and it sounds better in a live performance situation.

You obviously know nothing about it, so I find it to no end frustrating to be arguing with a dolt. I'm done.

Hey, man, don't have a cow, chill. I don't agree with you, but it's not a personal attack or anything, just you defending your opinion and me defending mine.

It is your opinion about why he sings 'had' live, fair enough. But I still don't believe it, I think there are other times when he uses hard 'p's with no music, such as when he talks to the crowd. A light acoustic guitar would not be enough to conceal the 'wind blow' effect in other songs, there should be exactly the same problem with the 'p' in 'I could never take the place of your man' like when he played on the MTV Art of Musicology special - but if there is, it sure doesn't interfere with the performance. I just don't see him singing 'had' just for that reason. We'll have to disagree on that one.

I've been listening to Parade when it first came out too. As I said, I always thought it was 'past' too until I listened closely to it. The fact you felt you had to buy a 'remastered' Japanese version proves that the original one's sound is a little blurry, therefore difficult to make out.

At the very least, this little discussion has proved that he sings 'had' during live acoustic sections. I'm sure if you asked most people before this discussion what they lyric was live, they would have said "Oh, it's 'past', of course".

Whatever.
[Edited 11/3/05 17:09pm]