What's with the references to Michael in "My name is Prince" and "Life O' the Party"... What's with the grudge?

The earliest "issue" I can think of is the "Prince t-shirt" mention in Moonwalker.

coolcat said:

michael is a cunt

tane1976 said:

wow, how silly of me, all your friends think hes guilty, so he MUST be guilty

hellomoto said:

Well that was kinda bitchy. She was just stating her opinion. One that is extremely valid, what with all the strange things that came to light with the Bashir interview and the things that came out in trial. Whether Bashir tricked Michael so he could say terrible things about or whether he entered Michael's world and later realized shit wasn't right is irrelevant. No matter how u slice it, A 45 year old man holding hands with a 13 year old boy the way they did is too fucking strange for me. Some, most or all of the things that came out in trial may not be true but it's enough to put doubt in my mind. I'm honestly not sure whether or not Michael is guilty, and sometimes deep down I believe he's innocent. It is perfectly normal for ppl to have doubts about Mike's innocence and I think it was mighty rude of you hellomoto to dismiss tane1976's doubts and opinions. Get the stick out your ass. She wasn't dissing him. Retract the claws. right back at cha.

tane1976 said:

1) you cant prove anything...you can just express your opinion...

2) 5%? thats you just taking the piss out of us, right?

hellomoto said:

Well Katty, as usual, it's all love...As I've stated in the past, I know MJ wrote a lot of his biggest hits (more than critics realize)...I agree that on most of the hits like "Don't Stop.." "Billie Jean," "Wanna Be..." MJ wrote the lyrics and contributed or wrote/produced the melodies...But I think the man really started to take complete control of his sound and production with the Bad album...Again, this shows;..."Bad," "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" "Dirty Diana" and ect may have helped Bad sale 28 million albums, but it's not among his best work and its at time a little silly and too slick compared to his past great work...The problem with saying that MJ is among the greats as a pure writer or a producer is that his connection with producers and writers like Quincy, Teddy and Rod Temperton, Tim Boetral (sorry for the mispelling), R. Kelly, Toto, and others is too much to ignore...Yes, there have been other artists that have used producers for their own written works (Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, U2..). But these acts have never really been connected to actual writers or co-writers throughout their own careers); I for one look at MJ as the genuis performer/entertainer who had an incredible gift for melody and a voice that when it's on can make any man cry (Two words: "Human Nature")

It's not that I don't agree with you, it's that I'm somewhere in the middle of the argument...I think MJ should get more credit as a writer and as a producer; But i think his skills were completely utilized after Thriller...And while I think an album like Dangerous is criminally underrated (People really need to listen to that album; "Give In To Me" and "Remember The Time" alone is worth the buy), the man has been a little too sporadic in his album releases to judge his evolution as a writer...The thing is I can take Purple Rain and 1999 out of the Prince canon and still come away with the impression that the man was a great writer; The same if I take Sgt. Peppers and Revolver away from the Beatles; and the same If i take Innervisions and Music Of My Mind away from Stevie Wonder. But when you take Thriller and Off The Wall out of the equation, it's really hard to judge MJ on the subject of writing and production one way or another...
And I like you too....
[Edited 10/16/05 17:51pm]

BEAUGARDE said:

just in case you got confused, i didnt say 95% of his material, i said 95 % of his biggest hits, ok here goes.

dont stop till you get enough
billie jean
wanna be startin somehting
beat it
bad
the way you make me feel
i just cant stop loving you
dirty diana
smooth criminal
black or white
will you be there
stranger in moscow (no that that was really a huge hit)
they dont care about us
earth song.

they were all written and composed only by michael jackson
[Edited 10/16/05 0:01am]

murph said:

If I remember correctly Siedah Garrett wrote 'I Just Can't Stop Loving You' and Teddy Riley wrote 'Remember The Time' I would have to find my MJ cds 2 finish correcting U

murph said:

If I remember correctly Siedah Garrett wrote 'I Just Can't Stop Loving You' and Teddy Riley wrote 'Remember The Time' I would have to find my MJ cds 2 finish correcting U

You can't compare Prince to Michael for the simple fact that if you if you stick either of them in a studio by themself Prince will will come out with at the least 2-3 whole albums while MJ would probably come out with the lyrics and melody for two songs tops.Example - Prince wrote, recorded and released on his official site for download 2 songs in five days for the Hurricane Katrina relief effort while MJ is rehashing the unfinished song he was supposed to write for the victims of last years Tsunami"From The Bottom Of My Heart".I guess those Tsunami victims are ass out of luck and with the pace he's going the Katrina victims might be too.And by the way the girls from Floetry wrote Butterflies- check the credits.Also in all my years as a music collecter and DJ I have never seen a MJ album with the words "written,produced arranged and composed by Michael Jackson" while damn near all of Prince's albums have this attached to them.

BEAUGARDE said:

Uh...read the whole joint; you are preaching to the choir....

hellomoto said:

I love all of these songs except Beat It and this is not 95% of Mikes hits. Still doesn't compare 2 the mass that P has. But I can credit 2 Mike, I love Mike, he just aint as talented as P so just cut it out!

lionrockr said:

well then you obviously havent got any of michaels albums because theres heaps of songs with those words on it, oh and i didnt say michael wrote butterflies so i dont know what your going on about there
[Edited 10/22/05 5:56am]

lionrockr said:

well then you obviously havent got any of michaels albums because theres heaps of songs with those words on it, oh and i didnt say michael wrote butterflies so i dont know what your going on about there
[Edited 10/22/05 5:56am]

BEAUGARDE said:

well what other hits did he have? he had a couple more which would probably be 5% more, and im talking only solo michael from 1979 on wards, oh and i also forgot to add blood on the dancefloor which he wrote by himself also, someone else got credit on the album though as a cor writer because they came up with the name for the song and michel wrote the song around the title

BEAUGARDE said:

well what other hits did he have? he had a couple more which would probably be 5% more, and im talking only solo michael from 1979 on wards, oh and i also forgot to add blood on the dancefloor which he wrote by himself also, someone else got credit on the album though as a cor writer because they came up with the name for the song and michel wrote the song around the title

hellomoto said:

-----

-----


Other MJ "Hits" (That others wrote or co-wrote)

Rock With You
Working Day And Night
She's Out Of My Life (Officially never released as a single; but became a huge radio hit)
Human Nature
Man In The Mirror
"PYT"
Liberian Girl
Remember The Time
Keep It In The Closet
You Are Not Alone
Butterflies
Thriller
You Rock My World
Scream
Jam
Off The Wall
[Edited 10/22/05 10:47am]

hellomoto said:

-----

-----


Other MJ "Hits" (That others wrote or co-wrote)

Rock With You
Working Day And Night
She's Out Of My Life (Officially never released as a single; but became a huge radio hit)Human Nature
Man In The Mirror
"PYT"
Liberian Girl
Remember The Time
Keep It In The Closet
You Are Not Alone
Butterflies
Thriller
You Rock My World
Scream
Jam
Off The Wall
[Edited 10/22/05 10:47am]

murph said:

actually murph, michael wrote liberian girl by himself. it was not cowritten with anyone. but all the rest you are right, so i guess im wrong about 95 % but he still wrote and composed his BIGGEST hits. most those songs were no where near as big as the ones michael wrote and composed by himself

OK gang, here is my 2 cents on the issue.
As Musicians, Comparing MJ and Prince is like comparing Beethoven to Mozart.
Why? Mozart would very often just hear stuff and write it down.Like Prince.
Beethoven would take a composition and re-write it OVER AND OVER AND OVER...seeking perfection. Like Michael. Take a look at his box set and you will notice that some songs he works on for YEARS.
For that reason, it makes perfect sense that Prince would have produced so much more work than Michael. So much more than pretty much any artist in fact.

The other way I see them as tremendously different, is what each choose to do after making it really BIG! MJ after Thriller choose to turn his life into the fulfillment of his fantasies. bought Neverland and it appears to me that that childlike fantasy became the center of his existence. He also seeked to make himself bigger and bigger, Bigger tours etc. He clearly wanted to beat THRiller but alas that was not to be.
Prince on the other hand built Paisley Park. A multi-media super-complex. Again Prince clearly is obsessed with his craft. He clearly does what he does for the music and not wheather he is the biggest STAR in the galaxy. He clearly had no intension of beating Purple Rain. I am sure if he tried he could have produced a monster follow-up instead of ATWIAD Now I am not saying he does not care about his success, but it would appear his artistic expression is his higher value.

Have to say what I said before though. Both geniuses and I am really happy these two were around in my lifetime.

DonRants said:

I'm impressed...classical music nods...I agree with your point on MJ wanting to beat Thriller and his quest for perfection to be the biggest star in the history of music; However, I differ on the Beethoven comparisons (although it was a very heavy analogy; you know your music!!!!) ...For me, MJ fits more into the song & dance man category than a pure composer...He's a talented performer/entertainer who could write his own songs when he wanted to; and he usually gave directions to musicians on how he wanted the songs played and produced (Bille Jean, Beat It, Don't Stop...ect...); But he was not going to go into a studio and bang out the tracks with an instrument in hand; that wasn't MJ's style...However, I do not believe his genius resonated on his actual albums (I think the closest the man came to showcasing pure genius through song was "Stranger In Moscow"...the lyrics are just so damningly haunting..gives a brother chills).Yet, I do believe the man was a genuis when he walked on the stage; I believe he was genuis of the video medium (seriously, the man wasn't making normal music videos; he was on some otherworldy shit...)
[Edited 10/22/05 23:05pm]

Well your just gonna have to accept that many people think Michael is a musical genius as well. You mightnt see the genius in billie jean or any other of mcihels songs but many do. Oh , and I don’t mean musical as in instruments, but as in being able to actually create a song like billie jean all by himself, with his own mind, the fact that he doesn’t play instruments and cant read music make it even more impressive that he made these songs. Personally the songs that make me think holy shit this man is genius are smooth criminal, stranger in Moscow, will you be there, who is it, wanna be starting something, they don’t care about us, earth song and billie jean, actually add don’t stop till you get enough in there as well. All these songs Michael wrote and composed fully by himself with no help. All you have to do is listen to the demos to realize how great these songs are even without quincy or whatever producer he had. Actually most of the latter songs from the dangerous album onwards were produced by Michael anyway.

hellomoto said:

Songs like "Billie Jean" and the rest of those songs, for that matter, are simple-ass pop songs with equally simple-ass lyrics. They show that MJ has TALENT, but musical brilliance? People are aware of and respect the guy's gift for rhythm, bass, melody, chord progression, etc., but Prince could write a "Billie Jean", "Beat It", or "They Don't Care About Us" in his damn sleep and play it all the next day (if not think it up and record it within a few minutes); MJ couldn't even begin to dream of creating something as musically complex and lyrically engaging as "When Doves Cry", the extended "Computer Blue" (un-freaking-believable, THAT shit is), or "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker".

Songs like "Billie Jean" and the rest of those songs, for that matter, are simple-ass pop songs with equally simple-ass lyrics.

squiddyren said:

yeah right