It seems like everyone is saying Prince has taken credit 4 songs written or co-written by various band members. I have seen many songs that includes credit from other writers and/or band members. What I haven't seen is Prince getting the credit he deserves on their albums. What's the deal with that? I have some of Andre Cymone's music and nothing sounds like 'Do Me Baby' and far from it but he wants credit, the same 4 Brownmark, Dez Dickerson, Wendy & Lisa, Jesse Johnson, Morris Day and Jam & Lewis. And as far I'm concerned alot of Jam & Lewis' earlier shit sounds like Prince/The Time such as Cherelle, SOS Band, Alexander O'Neal and Janet Jackson. And if you're thinking Jam & Lewis is responsible for The Time sound keep in mind that Lisa Coleman wanted credit for that. I'm not saying they didn't have ideals and input but they were given credit on each others projects and Prince's. Does any1 believe that Morris wrote 'Partyup' and gave it 2 Prince? If so, then listen 2 The Time's first album and ask yourself the question again.

There was an interesting Andre Cymone interview that shed some light on this topic. I believe it was in the Associated Artist Forum.

I kinda remember the article, now what did Andre say about the song?

Hmm...i was listening to Soul Sanctuary and i remember a documentary i have where the lady(can't remember her name) said he basically took her song and had it copyrighted or something ! She took legal action and received a 'little' card with a check or something like that! As a writer myself, i couldn't imagine that happening to me nor see myself doing that to someone else and being cool with it!That's just my opinion...

tinababy83 said:

It was Sandra St. Victor.

She discussed with Prince what she believed was intended as a collaboration and shared a tape of 5 songs on which she and others had worked.

Prince took the material, significantly reworked some of the material and used some of the results without reference to St Victor, albeit she received a cheque payment.

For example, she collaborated with two others - Johnny Kemp and Tom Hammer - on the song 'Sanctuary'. Prince used some of her lyrics on the resulting 'Soul Sanctuary', releasing the recording on 'Emancipation' with a CD liner credit for Sandra St Victor.

Prince also released the song 'Van Gogh' (which evolved from a song called 'Love Is') on the NPGMC and also gave the song to the group 'Van Gogh' which they then re-recorded. No credit reference was made to Sandra St Victor.

Sandra St Victor was asked about the issue on the BBC4 TV programme 'Liquid Assets' and subsequently shed more light on it in two contributions which are still available on an online thread on www.housequake.com

There's no evidence of which I'm aware that Sandra St Victor ever took any legal action concerning this matter. Her statements were fundamentally about the way the 'collaboration' evolved without reference to her, and I think she now sees the matter as history.

I'm also pretty sure that the oversight regarding full credit for 'Soul Sanctuary' has been remedied, certainly as far as publishing rights are concerned at ASCAP:

ASCAP database entry:

SOUL SANCTUARY (Title Code: 490858865)

Writers:
HAMMER THOMAS L
KEMP JONATHAN J
PRINCE
ST VICTOR SANDRA KAY

Performers:
PRINCE

Publishers/Administrators:

EMANCIPATED MUSIC INC

EMI APRIL MUSIC INC

MAANAMI MUSIC

MOCHRIE MUSIC

SONY/ATV TUNES LLC
.

langebleu said:

Thanks for the info. You are always a wealth of relaible info. Are you Per Nelson in disguise??

langebleu said:

This is seriously messed up. No excuse for Prince pulling this crap.

Prince did this from time 2 time with various people & this ain't right, but on the other side he effectively gave lotsa songs without crediting himself.

When i read sometimes here that Prince is just a thief it makes me laugh : most of the people who've had a few ideas "stolen" by Prince wouldn't EVER have recorded a single record or been known by ANYONE if not 4 being part of Prince's career. Jesse Johnson, André Cymone, Dez Dickerson, Mazarati, David Z... who would they b if not 4 Prince?

That's exactly what David Z said about the "Kiss rip-off", i remember him saying that Prince had made him a producer & helped him build a career & that because of this he didn't care about P "stealing" his arrangements on "kiss" (he was credited 4 these but never has a royalty from the major hit), since Prince had paid him over & over by all the work he'd allowed him 2 get. Someone else said that Prince might have taken a bass line or drum track from someone here & there, but that, considering the amount of music he's created himself, it makes no sense 2 mention this as something that would b important or significant 2 define Prince. I agree 100%.
[Edited 10/2/05 14:01pm]

shaomi said:

there is never a justification for theft.


and lisa coleman never took claim for The Time's sound.....silly bait!!

sosgemini said:

I didn't say there is a justification or that Prince did right... i said give it up with it it ain't worth THAT MANY threads, or at least b fair : make threads about all the artists who have stolen ideas from Prince (even i did sometimes, lol)
.
[Edited 10/2/05 14:24pm]

shaomi said:

its an topic of interest for some.....

and we aint talking stealing inspiration....in an article w/ the Doctor over at housequake he pointed out that prince would right a song...ask the doctor to think up a riff that would go with it and bring it back..yet the doctor gets no credit...

thats just rude.

Hi! As i stated before i'm a writer/composer..and i wouldn't like any one taking credit for something i came up with without my consent! If Prince chooses to help someone out and receive no credit, that's his 'personal' choice. Give others that option too!! Prince is not the only 'artist' who has been blessed with such a talent, let others shine...sometimes i just get the impression thst if a song is as good and beautiful as 'Santuary' he can't give someone else 'complete' credit for it, he'll add some lyrics, music etc...and then'technically' it's his song too....even though we don't actually know how much imput he had from start to finish....just my opinion!!

tinababy83 said:

Yes, exactly. If Prince chooses to give songs away, that his perogative. But that doesn't give him the right to steal.

Just working with Prince may do great things for an artist's career. But again, that's no excuse for him to steal the work of those working with him.

shaomi said:

That's irrelevant. Even if he gives away songs willingly, it doesn't excuse theft.



Again, that's irrelevant. Prince doesn't have the right to steal the work of those working for him, just because he did them the favor of letting them work for him. I hope they knew what they were signing up for beforehand.



I think you're trivializing a very serious issue. Maybe it doesn't significantly define him as a musician... but it certainly does define him as a businessman and as a human being.
[Edited 10/3/05 4:03am]

BEAUGARDE said:

According to Pepe Willie,it was Andre who composed the music to "Do Me Baby" back in the late 70s when he hired Prince and Andre to play on his demos.

And yes,Morris really did write "Partyup" and gave it to Prince in return for a recording contract for The Time.

Vanity has said that she co-wrote the lyrics to "Nasty Girl" without receiving any royalties.


I guess we'll never really know who wrote what,or if Prince was the sole writer of all these songs.

OK, so let's all agree that Prince is an awful bastard & that's it.

shaomi said:

but he's still a genius....most geniuses are fucked...they have this sense of entitlement that tends to screw theit thought process up.

sosgemini said:

This is an interesting forum topic. With the passage of time there has been much discussion regarding writer credits. As Prince grows older and more mature, he is in fact clearing up a lot of the stories regarding these songs - though in a subtle way. From my studies, both Dr. Fink and Bobby Z stated that they have added elements (maybe a rift or bassline here and there) and that they were not credited; however, they also admitted that 90 - 95 percent of the song would have came out the same regardless of their input. As for The Time sessions, I doubt if we will ever really know who contributed what. But we do know that Dez Dickerson and Lisa contributed in a measurable way. Lisa seems content that she is now known to have composed The Stick and it has been a known fact for years that Dez contributed lyrics and co-wrote the musical elements on some tracks. I hope that as Prince continues to grow a more mature conscience, that he gives credit where credit is due because it is just the right thing to do. However, suffice it to say that many of the songs would have came out close or pretty close to how we hear them if we take what Bobby himself said to heart. Now the ASCAP is about as close to the truth that we will get until stories unfold. I want to close my little input by saying this: Chris Moon and Gary O. recruited Prince out of all the talent that started with him - so his talent is justified (again, his alleged theft is not). Prince brought Andre, Dez, Morris, etc. along for the ride and they obtained some musical and financial (I assume) success as a result. If it is true that he "stole" and/or is not crediting where he should be, I can only assume that he felt he had offered the favor by providing jobs. I can only hope, as a sincere Prince fan and study of his MUSIC, that he continues to shed light on this topic. But, I do question many of you that slam him yet you are on a forum dedicated to him. We cannot change his alleged actions and we are not courts, etc. So if you are that upset with him, why continue to post on something that's a celebration of his genuis? Keep the music-related posts coming, I am learning a lot.

napoleon370 said:

"yuck"...i hate when the site burps..


at anyrate..i just posted a comment saying i dont see anyone thats mad or angry posting within this thread....and that this is a site for discussion not worshiping..so if a fan loved only one song or all the songs their perspectives are equally welcome...

thats all..