namepeace said:

, my sentiments exactly. I think Lovesexy was his last great album, since then he's made good albums, bad albums, and uneven albums and maybe one or two that were almost great (gold experience, rainbow children), but Lovesexy marked the end of his prime.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. My opinion is pretty much as follows. Honestly...I think Prince's music has taken more than one hit over time. Rather than one 'fall', as you put it, there have been at least 2 major drops in quality.

I'd put the first real heavy marker after Batman. While it can't really compete with the incredible scale and accomplishment of Sign O The Times, or the eccentric genius of Lovesexy and it suffers from some sub-par moments, Batman is still littered with moments of sheer brilliance (and it's b-sides/remixes are decent too). I don't think there's been an album of that standard since.

So, although I think there was a slight drop in quality just before Batman, I think the real fall came after that. Many of the albums post-Batman are excellent, but I don't think they're of quite the same standard.

I think most of the albums after Batman until Chaos & Disorder are both brilliant and, at times, irritating. They vary in quality a bit, for sure (TGE having more great songs on than some of the others, for example) but nothing like the drop-off in quality that occurs with Emancipation and continues (for the large part) thereafter.

So the next real hefty marker, i'd put after Chaos & Disorder. The albums that follow - Emancipation, NPS, Rave, Musicology, NEWS, TRC etc. do have wonderful moments (some of them have many such moments), but they are also full of crap, to be honest.

For me then, the line of quality which remained pretty stable until Lovesexy, decreased slightly with Batman, then took a big hit after that...then remained pretty stable until C&D, and then took an even bigger hit, and not much has changed since.

As always, there's an exception to every rule. The Truth is a remarkable album which appears as a statistical blip on the above graph.

The first time Prince fell downhill was beginning with "Around The World In A Day". If you don't believe it, ask the ex-fans.

I believe that the question is more of at what point did we outgrew his of music. (I hope that I am saying that correctly!) I know after Lovesexy, I started to listen to a wider variety of music, and Prince's music kind of wore me down.

I will admit that I had to restart my Prince CD collection, but I cant go past Purple Rain.

(I have listened to a little bit of Musicology though , I just havent bought it yet!)

Mutts

vainandy said:

Ex fans huh? Yeah, they will really tell you where it's at. Just like how an ex-wife will tell you how great her husband "used to be". I'd say ex anythings are not the people to ask for an honest, non bitter, opinion.

jacktheimprovident said:

Indeed.

TheFrog said:

That's rather like I see it too.

skywalker said:

Funny thing is, I was about to make the same analogy. All due respect to vain, fans like me jumped on the bandwagon after Purple Rain. And, while in hindsight, it shrinks in comparison to albums before and after it, fans like me stayed on the bandwagon after ATWIAD. It was exciting and unpredictable, and anchored by 2 of Prince's best songs (and b-sides) of all time.

An "ex" anything will give you an opinion that is not still blinded in love or in awe. An ex-wife may have found a man to be wonderful in the beginning until he started cheating on her, beating her, neglecting her, or whatever other reason she may have left him. Once he shit on her, the blinders came off and she started seeing the man with everyone else's eyes instead of lying lovestruck eyes.

I guess you won't hear from the ex-fans because they are not here. Why? Because they are no longer fans.

namepeace said:

Yessir...

People lose sight of how important that album was. It meant that Prince was not interested in being tied down to any genre or Top-40 classification.
Not because he changed (he'd been changing all along), but because he did it right after Purple Rain. It takes balls to say "this is who I am, and this is what I want to do, regardless of who jumps ship", especially after a huge commercial success.
This is art, man! Who are we to say what a person should and should not do?

OdysseyMiles said:

Prince started losing his grip after Lovesexy. I personally loved Batman and thought that it was a synthy power punch that was classic Prince. Ultimately when he crossed back over to R&B is when things got extra boring....for me. The one thing that amazes me and I've said this before is the fact that he's making super unbalanced and quite frankly unfinished songs. Everything I hear from him these days sound like to he took his record to a one hour producing booth at Walgreens. Then his record covers(minus Musicology..but the font on Musicology was cheesy) are remedial photoshop disasters. It's like he went to a grade school and had a contest to see who could make the best Prince cover. It's sad when an artist get's caught up in controlling every aspect of their work. It shows in the producing. He needs an edge. He's been with NPG too, too long. It's really boring uninspiring. BTW: Around The World In A Day and Parade are my two favorites.
[Edited 9/27/05 8:47am]

squiddyren said:

vainandy said:

An "ex" will also give you an opinion laced with bitterness and resentment because they feel scorned. Maybe they thought the relationship was going somewhere it wasn't. Maybe they thought they were "owed" something.

Sometimes, someone will stay in a relationship long after the best of their years (for example 1978-1984) have passed. Me? I am still in a happy and honest relationship where 2005 was as fun and fulfilling as 1982.
[Edited 9/27/05 10:00am]

SOTT is the last brilliant Prince record. Lovesexy is interesting and Batman is merely dissapointing. I mean all those post albums have their moments, but generally I feel that Prince has been wandering in the wilderness since '87. And he walked right into the Lion's den with his newer Jehohvah's Witness crap.

I think that Prince has really lost his ways after "For you"...

EmancipationLover said:

I think even 'For You' was an album too far, he really lost it after his session work with Pepe Willie...

EmancipationLover said:

LOL! Man, with what he accomplished lost, can you imagine his success had he planned it out?

metalorange said:

no way! after he stopped doing the boombox demos, it was alllll over!

skywalker said:

Me too!! That sustaining love, ain't it grand?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

... ever since he played the "batman theme" on his fathers upright piano in the lounge... sigh, it's all been downhill from there. *sheds a tear*

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

When he started pickin' up a guitar and playin in his basement was when Prince went too far. Didn't he learn from his daddy slappin' him 'round---"I told you you gonna play piano for a living boy---SMACK!" Prince: "Papa, papa...." Prince's daddy: SMACK! "ain't nobody dig ur chickengrease, but yaself...."

When he got rid of Pete Best.

Actually, anyone who saw the tour last year know he never really fell, but the music was never quite the same beginning with Diamonds & Pearls. It wasn't necessarily worse, just more generic. He had begun his new 90's style, which was a definite break from all that had come before it.

Dont get Prince mad he might shut us down.

We all must still believe in him or we all wouldn't be wasting our time talking about him.

zennabell said:

HA!

zennabell-dahling...the org's been around for yyyyyeeeeaaaarrrrrsssss, and we've had discussions like this tons of times. if prince & co. were that perturbed about our commentary, this joint woulda been shut down by now.

you're brand-spanking-new here. you'll learn the ways of the org soon enough.

I think people just don't get it that his music doesn't stay the same like most other artists and that he likes trying new things. That's part of what makes him a genius. Most people can't keep up with genius and I think that the only people really who can truly appreciate his genius are other musical geniuses. It makes sense that most people won't like most of what he's doing because he's so far beyond them. Like I always say, most fans from the 80's became a fan at a time in their life when his 80's music really resonated with them, and once he changed, they got confused and didn't understand what was happening. He never lost his form, he just understands that change is a good thing.

zennabell said:

U sure about that? I wonder why half these peops are still here.
[Edited 9/27/05 12:40pm]

doctamario said:

Yes, his '80s music resonated with a lot of people at the time, including me. So did some of his nineties music.

But I don't think that one can make the assumption that because he is a genius, it is people that there is something wrong with if they don't get or like the music he is making. It all comes down to taste. I get what he is making, alright. It is just not as much to my taste as it used to be.

And ya can't really argue taste.

People like what they like.
[Edited 9/27/05 13:12pm]

doctamario said:

Is that so??? Well, probably I am not genius enough to appreciate Prince's superb form on albums like Emancipation and NPS.

doctamario said:

I believe that change is only a good thing if it's change for the better. Do you really believe the two albums that I've just mentioned are topnotch and represent Prince in topform?

He didn't fall. He jumped.

Prince had the world at his feet at the end of 1988. Lovesexy had confirmed him as the greatest person in the world, whether musician, doctor or whatever... he just kicked ass.

After 1988 he went off on a journey not many can comprehend.... Batman, vanity; GB, silliness and confusion; D&P, reclamation of attention; all the others... struggling to meet ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT, Lovesexy.

Gold and Emancipation with hiatus he could not sustain because he had pissed people off too much.

Rainbow Children - marvellous. Inspired. No audience.

To date... too many pissed off people, not enough industry care to re-launch him. Fucking unbelieveable what he has managed on his own... a true genius in the sense that he is still respected by his peers, his fan-base is still there and, at last, the industry are developing a grudging respect for what he has achieved without them.

Still... no fall, just suicidal tendencies.

When I first heard The Love Below and knew Prince has fallen off bad. Prince should have quit once that Outkast disk grew like a titan, over the music industry. He hasn't been that artistic or daring in years.