"Yes, I think part of the problem is that certain people reply in this debate by belittling or just denying other people's points and arguments and stating opinoins as facts (e.g. "only a few peole on the ORG were offended" etc.)"

Alright, put up a poll here at the org asking who was offended by "The Rainbow Children". Because their was no massive social backlash. You may say that's because only Prince fans heard the album, however, you'd be hard pressed to find a critic (and hundreds of mainstream critics reviewed this album) that saw the racism, ignorance, and hatred that some say are on "the Rainbow Childrne".






[quote] So whatever I think about TRC, I can put it behind me when the artist seems like he wants to do so, too. "Forgive and forget and move on",

So, according to you , Prince was a racist, anti-semitic, hateful, ignorant prick. And that's okay with you? It's all good now?

GaryMF said:

Are we ruling out the notion that maybe Prince brought it up specifically out of respect?

skywalker said:

Fine, so I said by default.

And so there you go again. It's a very annoying habit you have there, of needing to belittle others. If anything could make me angry discussing with you, that would be it.

If you think I made anything up, be my guest if it makes your day. I don't feel any need to prove anything, and certainly not to someone with so little discussion skill as you have displayed on this thread for anyone with real minds to see.

Your need to belittle and gloat says a LOT about you.

"...plus you have ot understand there is actually a movement out there that denies the Holocaust even existed)...."

And you think Prince is part of the movement?

I guess the lyrics "..reproduction of a new breed leader,stand up, organize..." is a lot more scary if that's what you think about Prince.

skywalker said:

Actually, did I buy Musicology? No. Did I goto the tour? Yes, but I didn't pay. I'd buy some of the online stuff, if Prince would make the goddamn NPGMUSICCLUB MAC compatible, I'd buy some download stuff.

I stay current with Prince, cause Prince is what got me deep deep into music. I also believe that he's still a genius, and I hold out that he might come back from Zombiefication one day and show it again.

He NEEDS to start listening to some REAL jazz, whatever happens, though.

"...If you think I made anything up, be my guest if it makes your day. I don't feel any need to prove anything, and certainly not to someone with so little discussion skill as you have displayed on this thread for anyone with real minds to see.

Your need to belittle and gloat says a LOT about you..."

I am sorry if you feel like I am trying to belittle you. Although I thought it was pretty crappy that (in what was a good discussion) you decided to make up facts. Follow me, with this:


you said-

"I think that the fact that "The Rainbow Children" means "Jehova's Witnesses" is rather undisputable considering that Jehovas Witnesses call themselves the Rainbow Childre on various internet pages I have seen."

I said-


[b]Really? You've seen websites where Jehovas Witnesses call themselves "The Rainbow Children"? Could you prove that and point me to some of those websites?


Odyssey said-

It's not true, and if Sci-Fi saw some JWs refer to themselves as "Rainbow Children" they were probably Prince fans individually calling one another such. The term "Rainbow Children" was used by many people in many different ways before Prince even made the album, but it was NOT coined by JWs. It's not something "we" call one another either. Sounds like Sci-Fi took the actions of a few and immediately assigned them to all JWs.
A Google search? Yeah, no wonder.

You said-
Ha, ha. Ya probably got me there, Odyssey.


Or should I say "" .

I'll admit it was at least two or three years ago, when I was looking for reviews of Prince's album prior to buying it. I didn't really find any though, which - in hindsight - is probably a shame, so I could've not bought.

But I nver was angry about it. Disappointed at best, because I thought - when I did hear it - that it was boring. I hap hoped for something captivating considering the praise I had seen for it on various fansites.

Anyways... I found other "interesting" things on that Google search. I landed on a few JW pages. Would I still do that? I honestly dunno and don't particularly care. I'm on a modem and I'm not wasting valuable time doing a search. But be my guest, if anyone thinks it's important."

So there you go. i was not meaning to belittle, but you flat out made up stuff which, to me, really destroys your credibility in a discussion/agrument.

[b][Edited 9/30/05 11:55am]
[Edited 9/30/05 11:56am]

benjamino71 said:

it's the darth vader voice throughout the album (overkill.....was good on 1999 intro because it was short) but there is good stuff on it.

JudasLChrist said:

So basically you talk some good trash about Prince, but when it is all said and done, you usually pony up the $$$$$ and spend your time following him no matter how much you shit you talk. Okay...

skywalker said:

It doesn't say anywhere in what you're quoting that I made it up. It says it was awhile ago I saw what I saw.
[b][Edited 9/30/05 12:27pm]

skywalker said:

Did they? Why don't you back that claim up with proof, cuz I could barely find
one at the time of the album's release.

skywalker said:

And there you go again.

When did I say he was a prick?

skywalker said:

Can you prove that bold claim?

Because I recall a story where a woman who wrote a review calling the lyrics sexist was then called to Prince's office just so he could belittle her point of view.

skywalker said:

Why not? You do it all the time and it's not even your thread. But you've certainly jacked it.
[Edited 9/30/05 12:58pm]

And now I'm jacking it.

For those of you who think that the artists private life is irrelevant to his art, I say thee nay. Because if one wants to understand the art, one must also understand what shaped it.

As such, Prince's private relations at the time of the art's creation is relevant. And what had been going on in his life at that time was that he had begun to subscribe to Jehova faith whether being a formal member or not.

I find it obvious that on TRC Prince is telling his own story as a Jehova, because in his excitement, like with Lovesexy, he wants to share the experience with us. To him it is a joyful experience, I suppose.

So he made The Rainbow Children and the title is obviously a metaphor for Jehova's Witnesses - underscored by the use of the title in the lyrics and what it represents in the lyrics.

But if you won't take my word for it, here's some factual information: www.garone.net/tony/utnapishtim.html

There it says: "The gods were terrified by what they had done in the Sumerian flood, Jehovah was not terrified by his decision, but made a promise never to destroy the world by flood again (for those of you who don't read the Bible, that covenant is represented by the rainbow - so the next time you see a rainbow after a rainstorm, think of Jehova's promise)."

So the Rainbow does have signifance to Jehova's.

If the Rainbow is a metaphor for Jehova('s promise), then what are the (followers/)children of Jehova if not Rainbow Children?

Anji said:

Ah, yes. Another Jehova cliché. Like the "one truth" and "one God".

So although Prince's message on The Rainbow Children appears to be one of unity and love, I think it is implied in the subtext of the album being a story of Jehova's Witnesses, that the catch is that the call for unification is one under the Jehovan truth/God. As opposed to the Christian God, or the Mormon God, or the Muslim God or the Buddhist God and so forth...

TRC is like Pro-Family groups that seeks to exclude while claiming to be on a mission of love. So if you don't accept the RIGHT (Jehovan) way, you're "a banished one" by default.

Always remember: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

GaryMF said:

Gary, my dear.

Why, he appeared on The Ellen Show.

"And there you go again. When did I say he was a prick?"

You didn't. However, I am assuming that if you think someone is an ignorant anti-semitist that we can both agree to call that someone "a prick" and it'd be okay.

"With the accurate understanding of God and his Law"...

The lyrics make ill at ease right there and it's only the first line of the first song on the album...

..."they went about the work of building a new nation: The Jehova's Witnesses."

"Prince, who understood the law that was handed down from God long ago, reflected the true meaning to Mayte every day and she surrendered her discerning of it in2 his care and keeping 4 she trusted he would lead in the right way. Her children in subjection 2 her, she in subjection 2 Prince, and Prince in subjection 2 the only begotten one, all - 4ever in subjection 2 God."

And that was the sexist Theocratic Order right there, and the CD's barely gotten started.

"Just like the sun, the Jehova's Witnesses rise
Flying upon the wings of the New Translation
C them fly, fly
The covenant will be kept this time"

And here I'll refer to the previously posted reference: "for those of you who don't read the Bible, that covenant is represented by the rainbow - so the next time you see a rainbow after a rainstorm, think of Jehova's promise)"

"Just like the sun, the Jehova's Witnesses rise
Jehova's Witnesses, it's time 2 rise
Jehova's Witnesses, it's time 2 rise"

"It doesn't say anywhere in what you're quoting that I made it up. It says it was awhile ago I saw what I saw."

Bottom line, you never showed me a website where Jehovah's Witnesses referred to themselves as "The Rainbow Children". You seeing what "(you)saw awhile ago" and proof are not the same thing.

"As prophesied, Prince and Mayte were tempted by the Resistor.
He, knowing full well Prince's love 4 God, assimilated Mayte first and only.
Quite naturally, chaos ensued and she and 5 others were banished from Paisley Park... 4 ever."

skip!

"Prince, who understood the law that was handed down from God long ago, held fast in his belief that Jehova would bring him another one who loved him so."

tiny skip

"If she could b Muse and let him decide
Perhaps she'll let him decide
If she could be Muse to Prince
There is nothing he wouldn't give her"

...except the right to decide.

skywalker said:

"Can you prove that bold claim? "


"Did they? Why don't you back that claim up with proof, cuz I could barely find
one at the time of the album's release."

Here is my proof: 12 reviews of "the rainbow children".


http://princetext.tripod.com/r_rc.html

Look, no mentions of Prince being racist. No mentions of Anti-semitism. Almost none of the things you accuse Prince of saying with "the Rainbow Children" was seen by any of the authors of these mainstream media reviews.

Hence, my claim that only a few fans at this sight saw "The Rainbow Children" as a message of bigotry/racism/anti-semitism/ and hate.




Because I recall a story where a woman who wrote a review calling the lyrics sexist was then called to Prince's office just so he could belittle her point of view. [/quote]

Find me the story then. Prove your point.
[Edited 9/30/05 14:39pm]

Oh my God what a thread! I just found it and some orgers here (people like Xaxx, scifi) have already said everything I would have said myself. I don't listen to TRC anymore and just listened to it maybe 5 times because I cannot enjoy an album with lyrics like that . There would be some songs on it that I might have liked, but not with the JWs messages and the narrowminded and offensive content . It's not true that everyone stands in line again for the next concert and buys the next record no matter what. I know many Princefans who used to be huge fans for many years, but have stopped following his career because they didn't like the directions he took.I used to go to 10 or more concerts each tour and these days I just attend 1 or 2 shows per tour if he comes very near where I live and I haven't bought a Prince record for quite some time as I don't want to support the artist/person he has become .

"Why not? You do it all the time and it's not even your thread. But you've certainly jacked it."

I am sorry. I honestly don't think I have typed any rudely abrupt two word replies that don't further the discussion in this thread.

"OTAN: une alliance pour la paix armée
Composée initialement de douze nations, l’Organisation du traité de l’Atlantique
Nord est créée "

Serious said:

Serious!

I must say, I am happy to see you again.

And yay! You tell 'em!

scififilmnerd said:

I just found that thread because I saw you posted here, so without you I would have missed it . Like I said I am not that interested anymore in Prince and his music, so I I hardly read this forum anymore.

"The berries, talons, arrows and stars
All r superstitions, what the.."

Well, he's welcome to his beliefs. Personally I find Astrology fascinating.

There it says: "The gods were terrified by what they had done in the Sumerian flood, Jehovah was not terrified by his decision, but made a promise never to destroy the world by flood again (for those of you who don't read the Bible, that covenant is represented by the rainbow - so the next time you see a rainbow after a rainstorm, think of Jehova's promise)."

So the Rainbow does have signifance to Jehova's.

If the Rainbow is a metaphor for Jehova('s promise), then what are the (followers/)children of Jehova if not Rainbow Children? [/quote]

What the hell?!?!?

The rainbow has signifigance to EVERYBODY who believes in The Old Testament. It's not just a Jehovah's Witness pact with God. Shit, this is Old Testament so even Jewish people can believe in the rainbow in this context.

I'm not even a Christian and I know that the rainbow was God's promise to Noah and mankind that he wouldn't flood the earth again. I repeat, this is not just exclusive to JW's.

Also, I am not sure why you are posting the lyrics with your own changes. Are these your interpretations? Or is this what you are actually hearing? Seriously, if this is what you are actually hearing than I can totally see where you get your interpretation from.

In all honesty- read the reviews that I posted the link to. I think it will be cool to see what others got from the album. I think you'll see that the interpretation of "the Rainbow Children" being hateful is not the interpretation many see.

scififilmnerd- I wish that you'd have simply given me links to the reviews/sources that you had found that helped your interpretation of "the Rainbow Children" instead of posting a confusion of lyrics that never were. Anyhow good day to you and good chat. (Let me know what you think of those reviews and if you can find that woman's article or the website where JW's call themselves "The Rainbow Children". The rainbow you mentioned before was universal to all believers of The Old Testament. Peace.
[Edited 9/30/05 14:53pm]

Serious said:

Sometimes I wonder why I do.

The General Discussion is more me, you know that. But sometimes one is so amazed by the ignorance and fanaticism displayed here, I feel like I've got to at least show that some Prince fans are intelligent, y'know. "Wave the flag a little bit."