Of course... If I - as a succesful painter that has been hailed as a genius - carry a lot of ugly feelings and attitudes and opinions and beliefs inside of me - they might eventually grow to the point that they shine through my artistic work, intentionally or not.

Then I can go, "why aren't people buying my stuff no more?! I'm a friggin' genius! Whaddaya mean "it's ugly"?!"

"Well, you just don't understand it. Maybe if you were a genius, too, you would, but you're not."

OR... I can go, "what are they saying? Could be that be true? Have I really turned into an ugly being? Maybe I oughta re-examine my values and opinions and beliefs. Maybe, in my complacency brought on by me assuming everything I do will be hailed as genius, I have grown lazy. So, okay, I look at it now and maybe there's something about it. Maybe that could have turned out better. Although the technoque is perfect, the structure could have been stricter."

"Next time I will try harder, because being a misunderstood genius is no fun and certainly doesn't pay for my wife's house in Spain."


[Edited 9/28/05 10:29am]

skywalker said:

I think that The Resistor being the devil is your own personal interpretation?

Now ask yourself, what is The Resistor resisting? In Prince's terms that would most likely be the one truth. And in Prince's terms, what is the one truth?

I think that the fact that "The Rainbow Children" means "Jehova's Witnesses" is rather undisputable considering that Jehovas Witnesses call themselves the Rainbow Childre on various internet pages I have seen.

Ergo, The Rainbow Children is Prince preaching his Jehova beliefs.

As usual, metaphors aren't really Prince's strongest suit. I suppose maybe he is afraid we won't understand him otherwise.

Seen in that blatantly obvious perspective, there is no doubt in my mind that the Banished Ones are those who refused Jehova (and in Prince's usual black-and-white worldview that equals their siding with the devil) and it becomes most obvious in 1+1+1 is 3 and the immediate following preach/sermon. When The Banished Ones come knocking on the doors of the Rainbow Children because they want to be saved too, the Rainbow Children will go: "No. You had your chance and you wasted it. "

Not exactly the Lovesexy spirit. But then... People change, and not always for the better.
[Edited 9/28/05 10:55am]

OdysseyMiles said:

True that.

And a spade is a spade and a shovel is a shovel.

skywalker said:

But of course I read 'em. And the specific part you refer to here is nothing but Prince's attempt at rationalizing - to his fans and, I'm sure, to himself as well - why he divorced Mayte despite having made a really big deal out of her being his soulmate.

And then, throughout the story, he meets Mani who is perfect for him because she understands the malechauvanistic "theocratic order."

"....But if I - as a succesful painter who has been hailed as a genius - wants to try to do a painting that express all the ugly things inside of me and the audience then goes "ugh, that's ugly", then that really does say more about the picture than about the audience, doesn't it? People see it for what it is and for how it was intended. Of course, that doesn't mean that it is bad ugly art. All the painting techniques I used may have been perfect...."


1. I don't know this for sure.But, I seriously doubt,that it was Prince's intention, in making "the rainbow Children", was to unleash his inner ugliness/racism/ignorance/hatred/sexism. Do you honestly believe this was his intention with the album?

2. Many of his fans and critics DID NOT see all the ugliness in "The Rainbow Children" that you see. So, in this instance, your views on "The Rainbow Children" tell us a lot more about how you feel hearing it, than what Prince's intentions were making it.

This is quite a thread. if I may say so myself. I can see both sides of the coin with all the arguments presented here. I just wanted to bring this up, I remember when the CD dropped in November 2001, the wrapper said "The Controversial new album from Prince" and people here were like, what's controversial about this, no one knows about it other than us and stuff like that. What's so deep about it is that in the Purple World, as I call this and many other Prince fan sites, it really is a controversial album. To think, it's been almost 4 years since this CD came out and look at how many people and how may points have been put on this forum and others like Housequake about this one album. I don't think I've ever seen any other Prince album get the type of opinions that this album gets. One thing can't be denied about this album, The Rainbow Children has certainly given us something to talk about. That's amazing and it also make the CD even more unique. As for my opinion, it's a very good CD but I have to be in the mood to hear it and I disagree with some of the lyrics but I still find a way to enjoy it, if for nothing else just hearing the music. Just my 2 cents on the issue.

skywalker said:

I think I already answered that with the post following the one you comment here.

skywalker said:

OR... It tells us something about them. Does the album reflect their own "ugliness" (I'd really rather say beliefs and ideals here than "ugliness")?

"I think that The Resistor being the devil is your own personal interpretation?"

I believe it is layed out in the story/lyrics. I could be wrong. I don't think that my "interpretation" is more crazy than it being any non JW's.


"And in Prince's terms, what is the one truth?"

God/Love.He's stated this many many many times.

"I think that the fact that "The Rainbow Children" means "Jehova's Witnesses" is rather undisputable considering that Jehovas Witnesses call themselves the Rainbow Childre on various internet pages I have seen."

Really? You've seen websites where Jehovas Witnesses call themselves "The Rainbow Children"? Could you prove that and point me to some of those websites?

"But of course I read 'em. And the specific part you refer to here is nothing but Prince's attempt at rationalizing - to his fans and, I'm sure, to himself as well - why he divorced Mayte despite having made a really big deal out of her being his soulmate.

And then, throughout the story, he meets Mani who is perfect for him because she understands the malechauvanistic "theocratic order."..."

Alright. Now you are really fuckin' reaching. Do you know Prince? Why he left Mayte for his new wife is -

A. (although interesting) Not really any of your business.

B. Entirely based on speculation, rumors,your own interpretation, and gossip anyways. You see, the fact that you are willing to conjur this theory up based on "rumors" you've heard from others really makes me doubt how much stock I should put in your interpretation of "The Rainbow Children" lyrics. Seriously, I was with you until now. Now, it just seems like you are making up WHAT YOU THINK HAPPENED and passing it off as fact.

skywalker said:

Do a Google search.

I have to go watch Desperate Housewives now. I'll be back later.

"I think I already answered that with the post following the one you comment here."

So Prince did a 180 and put out a hatefilled/racist/sexist album and you still dig him?

"...OR... It tells us something about them. Does the album reflect their own "ugliness" (I'd really rather say beliefs and ideals here than "ugliness")?

I dunno, the album seems to be conjuring up some angriness and ugliness within you. So whatever you see could be what you are? Prince said the album cover of "lovesexy" was like a mirror. Perhaps the lyrics of this album is the same.
[Edited 9/28/05 11:45am]
[Edited 9/28/05 12:24pm]

skywalker said:

Whatever.

If Prince wants to advertise the reasons for his marriage to Mayte like he did - he send a press release with the text from the Kamasutra tape - then he can't seriously expect the press not to show up for the divorce too. "Oh, so now it's none of our business?" Get a grip.

it's a great album with an old retro sound.

skywalker said:

I don't listen to it. He has made other music that I do listen to.

skywalker said:

You're projecting. Where do I come off as angry?

No, the lyrics are the lyrics. A mirror would leave room for interpretation. In my opinion, the lyrics of TRC are pretty straightforward. They are a preach/sermon.
[Edited 9/28/05 11:52am]

"...Prince wants to advertise the reasons for his marriage to Mayte like he did - he send a press release with the text from the Kamasutra tape - then he can't seriously expect the press not to show up for the divorce too. "Oh, so now it's none of our business?" Get a grip..."

I agree with you. The marrying of Mayte was very public.

However this: "...And then, throughout the story, he meets Mani who is perfect for him because she understands the malechauvanistic "theocratic order." "

is just things you made up or "heard" from others.
[Edited 9/28/05 11:56am]

"You're projecting. Where do I come off as angry?"

I am not saying that you (at this moment right now) seem angry. However, you have expressed your dislikings with "The Rainbow Children" and then asked me..." Does the album reflect their own 'ugliness'?..." I simply wanted to know if it made you got negativity out of it.

"No, the lyrics are the lyrics. A mirror would leave room for interpretation. In my opinion, the lyrics of TRC are pretty straightforward."

Bullshit. The lyrics are totally up for interpretation. If they weren't this thread would not be as long as it is. People see/hear different things.

" Do a Google search.

I have to go watch Desperate Housewives now. I'll be back later."


F' that. You made the claim that "(you) found a bunch of websites where JW's call themselves "The Rainbow Children". Now, you cannot back it up. I highly suspect that you are just making things up to help your argument. So go watch "Desperate Housewives" because, like your claims on this thread, I hear it's good story telling.

skywalker said:

No, that's how Prince's own story goes on TRC.

Prince's albums and lyrics have always been about himself. He himself has said in interviews that what we need to know about him is in his songs.

So naturally I assume that what is in his songs is about himself. Although thinly disguised as a fantasy/fairytale, like with the opera on the
album, it is his own story he is telling. The resemblances to what had been going on in his own life prior to the release of the album sort of confirms that.

Now, I'll happily admit that the "what went on in his life"-part is stuff I read in the newspapers or magazines, but the album came along and confirmed it. And that something was in a newspaper or magazine doesn't mean its false. Why do you think Prince condemns such media by calling them "whosepapers, hellavisions and scagazines" on TRC? My personal belief is that him being the control-freak that he reportedly is, he is pissed off by them because he wants to control the news about his own person - a belief I think is fairly backed by his actions against fan-magazines a few years ago as well as his own press releases about his personal life at the times where it suited his wishes.

But with the press, you have to take the voluntary with the involuntary. It's a give and take-thing.

skywalker said:

No. It just bores me, musically.I think a lot of the music is uninspired and I don't see where it breaks new musical ground for him.

As for the lyrics, they are ideologically opposite the ideals he previously preached and I think the earlier ideologies he shared with us where much more open and all-encompassing and I don't think "that's my opinion" because it's right there in the lyrics for everyone to read.

And I just said to myself, "I can't support that" and didn't go to his shows on the ONA tour. Some say I've missed out, but hearing his ONA live release, I doubt that.

Now, the story could have ended there, but it didn't. The Chocolate Invasion came along and I like that, so I haven't given up on my Prince, yet.

Although some of the lyrics did turn me off with the occassional "the truth" reference, it didn't spoil my listening experience because it wasn't as pervading as on TRC. Plus I found the songs better crafted.

I just have this "thing" with people trying to "copyright the truth." I can make up my own mind, thank you very much.
[Edited 9/28/05 13:09pm]

skywalker said:

It's not true, and if Sci-Fi saw some JWs refer to themselves as "Rainbow Children" they were probably Prince fans individually calling one another such. The term "Rainbow Children" was used by many people in many different ways before Prince even made the album, but it was NOT coined by JWs. It's not something "we" call one another either. Sounds like Sci-Fi took the actions of a few and immediately assigned them to all JWs.
A Google search? Yeah, no wonder.

"...No, that's how Prince's own story goes on TRC.

Prince's albums and lyrics have always been about himself. He himself has said in interviews that what we need to know about him is in his songs.

So naturally I assume that what is in his songs is about himself. Although thinly disguised as a fantasy/fairytale, like with the opera on the
album, it is his own story he is telling. The resemblances to what had been going on in his own life prior to the release of the album sort of confirms that.

Now, I'll happily admit that the "what went on in his life"-part is stuff I read in the newspapers or magazines, but the album came along and confirmed it..."

Okay- Prince's life is detailed in his songs.So everything he says in his songs, is basically everything he experienced ?

-He was incestuous with his sister whe he was a teenager.

-He really met a girl in a hotel lobby masturbating with a magazine

-He really had a boss named Mr McGee at the 5 and dime.

-He was looking for the ladder, but fell to temptation and then was nearly killed by God for being a "silly man" and not wanting love for the right reasons.

-In '87 took a bath with his pants on with a waitress named Dorothy.

-In '88 he lost his soul, became Camillle, found God on Alphabet St. and was saved by Jesus.

-He then actually went to Gotham City (he says it in his album it must be true), dated Vicki Vale, battled the Joker with Batman, and became both of them and was called Gemini.

-In 1991 he recounts of his days as a fighter pilot when he had an angel on his shoulder (who was much like Tony M.) telling him to "live 4 love".

- According to "pheromone" Prince saw a woman being assaulted sexually by a man with a gun, and although tempted to save her, Prince was so aroused all he could do was watch. (since his life is basically in his songs this actually happened)

Okay, get the point? For Funk Sakes-Prince is an artist. Listening to "the Rainbow Children" and assuming that it is an actual account of his relationship with Mani is foolish. C'mon now. Eminem is autobiographical in his songs too, but if he did half of the shit he said-he'd be in jail.

All I'm saying it this- I understand people not liking "The Rainbow Children". However, believing that it is Prince spewing forth hate, racism, sexism, and happiness about the holocaust (as well as being an exact account of his relationship to Mani) is reading entirely TOO much into the lyrics.

The message that Prince is stating in "The Rainbow Children" is the same as usual. As I said before, Prince is still a horny bastard. Prince is still calling for unity under God/love (not just for JW's). He's been calling for unity under God/Love since "Controversy". If you can't see/hear that then you haven't been paying attention-at all.
[Edited 9/28/05 13:15pm]

OdysseyMiles said:

Ha, ha. Ya probably got me there, Odyssey.

Or should I say "" .

I'll admit it was at least two or three years ago, when I was looking for reviews of Prince's album prior to buying it. I didn't really find any though, which - in hindsight - is probably a shame, so I could've not bought.

But I nver was angry about it. Disappointed at best, because I thought - when I did hear it - that it was boring. I hap hoped for something captivating considering the praise I had seen for it on various fansites.

Anyways... I found other "interesting" things on that Google search. I landed on a few JW pages. Would I still do that? I honestly dunno and don't particularly care. I'm on a modem and I'm not wasting valuable time doing a search. But be my guest, if anyone thinks it's important.

Regardless of what is found - or not - I still think that The Rainbow Children being a metaphor for Jehovas Witnesses is so blatant, it's practically hitting you on the head.
[Edited 9/28/05 13:58pm]

skywalker said:

Actually, yes.

Pheromone is reportedly about Carmen Electra and that rapper she was dating at the time. I don't recall his name.

The Fighter Pilot, Camille and the Batman characters are all metaphors for himself or sides of himself, but I suppose the first one was more dirty fantasy than real, but... who knows?
[b][Edited 9/28/05 13:29pm]

skywalker said:

Well, don't believe hearsay. Watch it yourself.

skywalker said:

Well, maybe you don't read enough into the lyrics?

I think that there are different levels or degrees of spiritual content in his music that can't all be stuck under the same umbrella. I think the Lovesexy messages and the holistic ideas he seemed to share with Mayte and his latest "one truth" ideology are three very different ideas and beliefs.

Putting it all under one label "God/Love" seems very... large? to me.

skywalker said:

I actually agree with that whole post.

Maybe it's bcuz musically it takes U back 2 Prince's 1999/Purple Rain era but has Lovesexy's message. I think people prefer Prince's nasty boy image over his savior image. (Purple Rain's Kid vs Graffiti Bridge's Kid).

scififilmnerd said:

Fine. Here is the difference between me and some other fans-

I don't really like "The rainbow children" as much as some of his other stuff because it seems as if Prince is trying to hard to "spoon feed" and "breakdown" and "explain" his message of God/Love ( Darth Vader narration etc.) and not just letting it flow like he did with "Lovesexy".

I do not view Prince's message on "The Rainbow Children" as being racist/bigoted/narrow minded/exclusive/sexist/hateful. I see it as being about unification/coming together/love/God- as his message usually is. I do not see the Jehovah's Witness doctorine being all over this album like some do. The of the messages in this album could be construed to fit MANY religions.

"The Rainbow Children" isn't my favorite, not because of what Prince says, but because he often wrecks a fine groove to say it.
[Edited 9/28/05 14:45pm]

Get busy big baby cuz when dem devil come
Dem devil come dressed as light/Maybe they gon' fool the untrained mind
But nobody eye know gon' bite/Like a thief in the night/My Lord come and strike
Leave nothing but ashes to theleft, dust 2 the right
Holocaust aside, many lived and died
But when all truth is told/Would u rather b dead or b sold?
Sold 2 the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white
jailbait.
Thinkin' like the keys on Prince's piano will be just fine

(Muse 2 the Pharaoh)

I do not see these lyrics as a trivialization of the Holocaust. The Devil, who may appear to some as "light" (Lucifer = the one who brings the light), so he or his "work" seem to be the solution/salvation to some people (whose with "the untrained mind"), will be destroyed by God. "Holocaust aside, many lived and died" seems to be a reference to the action of the Devil (!) on earth. Even if you leave the Holocaust, his biggest crime and act of murder so far, aside, there are still many people who lived (with their life given by God the creator) who died through the action of the Devil (just think of the drop of the nuclear bombs in Japan, terrorism, or the middle-east conflict, just to give a few examples). "But when all truth is told/Would u rather b dead or b sold?" - "When all truth is told" is a reference to judgement day. Those who are dead then will resurrect and live through the compassion of God eternally, while those who "sold" themselves to the Devil will not - "Sold 2 the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait." The verse does not mean Holocaust vs. slavery imo! "Thinkin' like the keys on Prince's piano will be just fine" - If we unite (black and white as an example, like the keys on a piano) to worship God (like Prince does with his music on his piano), we will have nothing to fear.

That's just my way to interpret the lyrics. Not antisemitic, not trivializing the Holocaust or anything else. But I may be wrong as English is not my native language. Any comments on my interpretation?