PurpleKnight said:

What's so bad about Rainbow Children? C'mon.
It's not a record. It's a commercial for J W.
Lame.

PurpleKnight said:

yeah how did he get away with this? I knew about this but just reading this again pisses me off.

And I know you were kidding about Eminem, but at least he gets called to the carpet for his stuff when it promotes hate or bigotry.

"Whats wrong with TRC?" u ask??? absolutely NOTHING! I like the album.

2freaky4church1 said:

- Funny...people judge the album for the first song...´Everlasting Now´, ´1+1+1=3´ (cousin of Erotic City) and ´Family Name´ are funky tunes....´Everywhere´ could be a Revolution song, ´The Work´ is a James Brown tribute, ´She loves me for me´ is a rock ballad and ´Last december´ is the kind of rock ballad anthem that Prince does since Purple Rain...

Even the first song, that is pop jazz, is not of the worst kind. In my opinion, the bass line is derivative of ´Hit the Road Jack´. The new age jazz mood is because of Najee´s sax...
Prince played some nasty guitar with Ring Modulator and a rock part in the end. I doubt that Norman Brown or Kenny G would do it...

"...Lyrics like this are nauseating...."

Are these lyrics more your style?

"Hey y'all, I thought we bust this new hype before
All across the land (Come on, man, let's get busy)
(New dance commercial, take 2)
Rio, Marbella - huh
We gettin' stupid - Ha!
Germany, Paris, France
We gettin' stupid
Yeah, Stockholm, Sweden, we love ya'..."
[Edited 9/27/05 20:25pm]

skywalker said:

I don't know where they're from, but at least they're not endorsing mass murder or bigotry.
[Edited 9/27/05 20:48pm]

skywalker said:

So to counter my argument, you post the lyrics to one of, if not, Prince's very worst song ever? That's pretty weak.

No, lyrics to masterpieces like Purple Rain, Adore, Sign 'O' The Times, etc. are more my style.

I hardly see how bringing up a shitty song Prince wrote suddenly excuses the lyrics to a lot of songs on TRC.
[Edited 9/27/05 22:05pm]

emesem said:

Uh...sweetie, i specifically mentioned that.

PurpleKnight said:

absolutely.

could someone please explain me these lyrics. seems to piss some people off alot. dont so much interpret, but explain the meaning of the lyrics, thanks....

"So to counter my argument, you post the lyrics to one of, if not, Prince's very worst song ever? That's pretty weak."

Oh c'mon now. I was being silly. I am just letting you know things could be worse.

"No, lyrics to masterpieces like Purple Rain, Adore, Sign 'O' The Times, etc. are more my style."

Of course they. Purple Rain, Sign O' The Times, and Adore. Some of Prince's most commercial and easily accessable songs ever. Hmmm lyrics to When Doves Cry, Controversy, and Little Red Corvette are more my style.

I hardly see how bringing up a shitty song Prince wrote suddenly excuses the lyrics to a lot of songs on TRC."

That's fine, but I don't really see why these lyrics need to be excused anyways. In my eyes, Prince is not accountable to you for his art-including lyrics. Maybe Prince didn't make the album for your enjoyment.
[Edited 9/28/05 6:20am]

PurpleKnight said:

Then I take it you don't enjoy the bible.
The bible says that the Lord's day is coming like a thief in the night, and whenever the bible mentions something being destroyed by God, the destruction is a complete one. Prince is merely quoting the scriptures here, not damning you personally.

PurpleKnight said:

Perhaps they're nauseating merely because of the way you construe them (by the way, you left out the last line of the verse: Thinkin' like the keys on Prince's piano will b just fine).

"I don't know where they're from, but at least they're not endorsing mass murder or bigotry."

Do you honestly view this as Prince endorsing The Holocaust? I think he is simply asking the question: Is it better to be dead or a slave?

"Yeah, that's the thing. Prince on this album is basically saying that we should all come together...except for all people who believe in anything but the JW rules. "

I am sorry, where in the album does he say anything about JW rules? I just don't see it.
"Men "assimilating" their women? What century is this?"

Um, the Resistor (the Devil) is the one who assimilated the woman. Weren't you paying attention to the story?

"Trivializing the horror of the Holocaust by saying it's nothing compared to slavery? Wow..."

Again, you are getting mad about things that are not really said. You act as if Prince was all "Yay Holocaust!" He asked a question-

Would you rather be dead, or a slave?

"Ah, and let's not forget Prince celebrating his God killing people left and right who don't follow the JW doctrine."

Again, I find nothing in the lyrics that mention killing people who didn't follow a JW doctrine. The lyric is:

"Get busy, big baby cuz when dem devil come
Dem devil come dressed as light
Maybe they gon' fool the untrained mind
But nobody I know gon' bite
Like a thief in the night, my Lord come and strike Leave nothing but ashes 2 the left, dust 2 the right..."

This lyric leads me to believe that Prince's Lord is fighting the devil or the devil's followers. I see no mention of people who don't follow a JW doctrine.



"Prince is hateful and arrogant on this. Totally charmless."

Listen, I am not suggesting that you aren't justified in your feelings. However, the lyrics to "the Rainbow Children" are often quite obtuse and obscure- they leave a lot of room for interpretation and imagination. You obviously saw the album/lyrics as hateful and arrogant. That's fine-that's what you saw/heard. I must say that the interpretation of any art usually says a lot more about the viewer/listener of the art than the creator of the art.

I saw this album as sort of a weird psychadelic/spiritual funk opera. It's a story- a fairytale/morality tale and not a biography. If this album was really a rant against all non-JW's and an endorsement of the Holocaust it'd have been in every news paper everywhere "Prince hates Jews". The fact is, you interpreted the album a certain way and you seem unwavering in your interpretation.

I guess I didn't find the lyrics all that inflammatory. I'm an agnostic, but I don't really see lyrics like this-

"Ahh ahh ahh, in the name of the Father
In the name of the Son
Ahh ahh ahh, we need 2 come 2gether
Come 2gether as one..."

as hateful and arrogant. It just doesn't bother me. But, hey it's all in the interpretation. I wouldn't presume to tell you what to hear. I am just letting you know that not everyone took the album the way you guys did.

I find that some of the main ones who misinterpret lyrics or make broad leaps to find negative messages in Prince's music are the same ones who have a narrow-minded view of Prince's musical diversity.
This is art, after all. I think we can all afford to be more open minded before we start flappin' our lips about misogyny and anti-semitism.

benjamino71 said:

I find the lyrics on this album fascinating. Prince, in his usual way, is very ambiguous as to the actual meaning of lyrics like those quoted above, and the "opposite of NATO is OTAN [or Aten]", which is still a contentious issue amongst fans.

I think I'll have a listen to the album and pick out some of my favourite parts and then come back to this thread, and point out what I think Prince's POV is, and what he's saying in the lyrics.

"Holocaust aside, many lived many died"

I don't know exaclty what he meant to say here, but it's hard not to interpret this as at a minimum, trivializing or minimizing the importance of the Holocaust, which if memory servces, was resopnsbile for the pre-meditated murder of 10 million people (including the 6 million Jews plus others).

It comers across as "yeah lots of people get killed all the time, so what?"

And better to be dead or a slave?? it's easy for Prince to say since he has never been either. I have not either, but at leats i theory if you are a slave, you have a HOPE of making it through some day, or at least your offspring. If you're dead and you're kids are dead, that's it. Your family is wiped out.

Isn't there some famous quote by a civil rights leader about "indiferrence" being worse that actual hate?? Saying "Holocaust aside" is pretty much that.

skywalker said:

That's a horrible generalization. If someone paints an ugly picture and you see an ugly picture it says absolutely nothing about the viewer and everything about the art.
[Edited 9/28/05 7:28am]

skywalker said:

I'd say "the banished ones" is a pretty obvious and blatant metaphor.
[Edited 9/28/05 7:36am]

skywalker said:

Not necessarily. The media didn't care about Prince at the time. He had dropped out of range of their radar.

OdysseyMiles said:

"Narrow-minded"?

So if you don't like "Jughead", you are narrowminded and un-appreciative of Prince's musical diversity and if you can't see the genius in it, it's because its ahead of its time and beyond you - you just don't get it.

No, Odyssey. It is not about that. It is about taste and sensibilities. "You like it in the dark but I like a blue light."

And art can be both good and bad.

I've heard porn directors calling their work art. Art is a subjective term and something being "art" doesn't in itself say anything about its quality. "Art" is not a guarantee of good quality.

Like beauty, art is in the eye of the beholder.
[Edited 9/28/05 7:57am]

I think it's because it takes so long to get to the Everlasting Now.

I wouldnt even try to compare The Rainbow Children to any other prince work.It is truly unique and utterly brilliant.awesome,different,funky,non-commercial,the list of compliments go on.if i had to put together a list of cd's from musicians that are essential since the millenium kicked in this would be on that list.And the thing i really love about it is the amount of effort you have to put into it before you get something back.it was worth every penny.

scififilmnerd said:

I think you missed most of my point.
By no means was I saying that someone was being narrow-minded for not liking something. I was drawing a parrallel between those who misinterpret lyrics and those who kinda want Prince to "stick to this or that". MIsogyny and anti-semitism are pretty bold accusations, and yes, I believe folks are taking some broad and misguided leaps to come to such conclusions.

Whether or not art itself is "good" is still an individual's opinion.
I never said art equalled quality. But at the same time, I don't need something to be recognized or "approved of" by critics and pundits in order for me to appreciate its artistic appeal. In fact, I only agree with you that art can be good or bad in one's mind. If something is truly subjective, then it is what it is.

"That's a horrible generalization. If someone paints an ugly picture and you see an ugly picture it says absolutely nothing about the viewer and everything about the art."

So you look at a picture. You see it as ugly. And that says nothing about you? That's says ALOT about you. Your reaction to art says a lot about you. My Grandpa doesn't like hip hop music. Does that mean there is no Hip Hop Music of any quality? Of course not, it says that Grandpa doesn't have a taste for it, etc. Like I said, a viewer/listener's response to art says a lot about the viewer/listener.

You enjoyed "dukes of Hazzard" and saw it 10 times in the theater this summer. I guess that makes it a triumph of modern cinema right? No, it tells me a lot more about you and your taste then it does about the actual art.
[Edited 9/28/05 8:37am]

"I'd say "the banished ones" is a pretty obvious and blatant metaphor."

Did you even read/listen to the lyrics? The banished ones were people, including the wise one's girlfriend, who were successfully tempted/in league with the resistor (the devil) and wanted love to cease. That's it. That's all it says. No JW doctorine unless you read more into it.

Never listen to the critics who diss prince and worship the ground that Elvis,Madonna,and Michael Jackson walked on.Clueless and i cant help but think that record sales effect what they say and what they really think about certain artists.I would shake the hand of any tabloid journalist who thinks that elvis sucks and thinks that the rainbow children is incredible.

DIAMONDGEEZA said:

Good luck finding one.

skywalker said:

Yes, it is true what you are saying now. Just because Grandpa doesn't like hip-hop doensn't mean that all hip-hop is bad, no.

But if I - as a succesful painter who has been hailed as a genius - wants to try to do a painting that express all the ugly things inside of me and the audience then goes "ugh, that's ugly", then that really does say more about the picture than about the audience, doesn't it? People see it for what it is and for how it was intended. Of course, that doesn't mean that it is bad ugly art. All the painting techniques I used may have been perfect.

But painting it, I should have realized that I probably wouldn't be able to sell it, because - you know - who wants an ugly painting hanging above their couch in the living room? I can be arrogant and say "well, I didn't make it for them anyway!" or "They just don't understand my genius!"

OR... I can go "oh, okay, so maybe that wasn't my best work. Maybe that picture could have been done better. I suppose it is ugly. I should have realized people wouldn't wanna buy this even from a genius. Maybe I shouldn't have painted it at all. Maybe I could have expressed what I wanted to say in a different manner. Maybe I should reflect upon this road I have taken. Maybe thinking of myself as a genius has made me self-complacent. Next time I will strive to do better."