andyman91 said:

The only released version is the one of C-NOTE which is a live one.

There r 2 my knowledge 2 unreleased studio versions...that r on some boots(That i never got my paws on.. )

one from 85-86 I think and other from the era

the other orgers have more info on it...

Please someone correct what i said please!

KAB said:

Sure.

Except for Gold, those videos were all done prior to WB agreeing to release The Gold Experience. By the time it DID come out, Prince had most likely lost all interest in the album and the promotion he did (one video = Gold) in connection with the release was comparable to what he did for C&D. I think The Gold Experience can be considered as much of a "contract filler album" as Come because both albums came out over a year after having been recorded and both had undergone changes that made the albums inferior to what they had initially been - i.e. Prince didn't want to supply WB with hits to make money off.
[Edited 9/8/05 10:59am]

MikeMatronik said:

Okay. There are indeed two studio versions of Empty Room in circulation: The original 1985 recording with the Revolution (often falsely believed to be a 1994/1995 update of the recording because he made a video for it in 1994 that was shown on the 1995 Gold tour) and a 1992 recording intended for the musical I'll Do Anything that ended up not being a musical, but an ordinary movie.

KAB said:

Sure.

Much of Chaos and Disorder were recorded in 1993 and the videos for Zannalee, Empty Room and I Like It There were shot in 1994 along with the video for the Come remix 18 & Over.

But the Chaos and Disorder album wasn't really released. Prince just made a compilation using the same title and some of the same tracks in 1996. At least, that's how I choose to regard it.

But it does say "compilation" in the cover.

Prince's promotion of C&D was most likely a contractual obligation. He really didn't do all that much promotion, and what he did - like his appearance on the David Letterman Show - seemed very... "I am forced to do this. I do not like it. It is something I have to do, and I am doing only what I have to do, so as soon as I'm done playing this song, I'm outta here!"

So I think C&D can very much be considered "contract filler". After all, it was delivered to WB along with The Vault in a mutually agreed to way of concluding WBs contract with Prince.

wait, let me get this straight ( )
are you saying that there are
only TWO version of Empty Room

1. the original 1985 recording
2. the 1992 "I'll Do Anything" Soundtrack re-recording.

??

So does that really mean that the song that everyone has now
and that's been promoted as a 1995 re-recording and even had
it's own video made in 1994, is ACTUALLY the 1985 original??

I think you're wrong on that last point - which songs which were potential hits did he remove from the album. I would have said the hits were surely on there: TMBGITW, Dolphin, Gold, Shhh and maybe Shy. I even think he may have even had high hopes for We March on the back of Lovesign. I'm less sure the released TGE was inferior in any case [Come certainly was]. TGE, for me, would always have Endorphinmachine / Shhh on it.

In addition is it not the case that the maters for this particular album lies with Prince. If so I would have thought that he would want to sell as many copies [albums and singles] as possible to make much needed money [the $100m purse strings had been cut!].

So are you saying:

Dinner with Delores
I rock therefore...
Into the light
I will
Dig U better dead
Had U

were all recorded in 1993?

The videos [along with Same December and Dinner with Delores] may well have been fimed in 1994 but to me that shows Prince thought the songs had merit enough to record videos [same with TGE videos]. No videos were recorded for Space or Letitgo.

C&D may well be a compilation album [of songs from 1993-96] but then again so therefore was TGE and then one could summise SOTT, Lovesexy, Grafitti Bridge etc..

I think Prince wanted the best of both worlds for his O+> WB albums - i.e. to get out of the contract ASAP but also to provide just enough good songs with videos to keep him in the music-buying public's eye for when he became a 'free' man and release music to his rules. I think this differs to Prince albums of the time because he knew he was going to record under the O+> in the immediate future and he didn't want to tarnish the brand.

IstenSzek said:

Yes. Neversin and Borisfishdear said so on this thread: http://www.prince.org/msg/7/141904

And I believe it.
[Edited 9/9/05 2:49am]

KAB said:

Well, I suppose it all comes down to a matter of taste as to which album configuration is the best, but TMBGITW and Dolphin had been released in 1994, so you can't consider them as potential hits for the 1995 release. And personally, I prefer the 1994 single version of TMBGITW to the album version.

Personally, I find songs like Shhh and We March inferior to songs like Acknowledge Me and Ripopgodazippa which they replaced. And I think that putting Shhh on an album of his own following its prior release by Tevin Campbell is rather silly when there are so many better unreleased tracks he could have included instead. If he wanted to release his own version of Shhh, he could have made it a b-side.

And to me, both Endorphinmachine and Dolphin will always be Come tracks. Particularly as the Come-version of Endorphinmachine is far better than the overproduced horror that was released on The Gold Experience.

And I'm not particularly fond of P. Control, either. Although I'll admit the music is funky, I find it boring in the same vein as Gett Off and Sexy M.F.

So with P. Control, We March and Shhh on it, along with an awful version of Endorphinmachine, that's almost half the album disagreeing with my taste right there. So of course I think that the March configuration is a whole lot better.

Yes, one wonders why the single choices were Eye Hate U and Gold, instead of Shy.
[Edited 9/9/05 3:10am]

MikeMatronik said:

Okay. There are indeed two studio versions of Empty Room in circulation: The original 1985 recording with the Revolution (often falsely believed to be a 1994/1995 update of the recording because he made a video for it in 1994 that was shown on the 1995 Gold tour) and a 1992 recording intended for the musical I'll Do Anything that ended up not being a musical, but an ordinary movie.

Well obviously the original versions of TMBGITW and Endorphinmachine are better as for the inclusion of TMBGITW and Dolphin - they're songs general music fans will have heard of which [as with most albums] assists in album sales.

I don't like Pussy Control or We March much either I must admit. We know WB wanted Shhh for Come so to include it on TGE doesn't suggest Prince was holding back songs thought to be potential hits which was your point.

The songs I listed were those I considered most appealing to general music buying public and therefore likely to assist with sales.

scififilmnerd said:

Do these version have an explicit guitar?

KAB said:

No, but I wouldn't be surprised if Into The Light and I Will are from 1994 where Prince was hyping the book Into The Light by Judith Whatwashernameagain?

But besides the songs you mention, the rest of them were indeed recorded in 1993-1994 and were the songs from the 1994 Chaos And Disorder album that Prince decided to include on his 1996 compilation also entitled Chaos And Disorder.

The video for Dinner With Delores was probably filmed in 1996 as a contractual obligation to promote the album.

And whether it was intended or not, collections like Chaos And Disorder and The Vault... Old Friends For Sale ended up tarnishing "the brand"/his name. But then, so did albums like Newpower Soul and Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic.
[Edited 9/9/05 3:24am]

KAB said:

And to some degree, they did assist with sales. I personally discovered that one of my friends had bought The Gold Experience because TMBGITW was on it, but he was a bit disappointed that it wasn't "the real" version.

Yes, WB wanted Shhh and got it, but a year later and it wasn't released as a single. I honestly don't know who decided which songs to release as singles, WB or Prince?

MikeMatronik said:

Only the first one.

So does that really mean that the song that everyone has now
and that's been promoted as a 1995 re-recording and even had
it's own video made in 1994, is ACTUALLY the 1985 original??



but the supposed 1995 recording sounds so, so ehm so "1995"

IstenSzek said:

Do you really think so? It sounds very 1985/Revolution-ish to me... mainly because of the drumsound.... and by the way I freakin' love the song!

oh dear.....why not just admit to yourselves.....Prince is HUMAN.....once he'd signed a contract he was obliged to do the work and , considering his work ethic, he wanted to do the best he could!! The 'chaos & disorder' album is a mighty fine piece of work!! So is 'The Vault'!! I'm sure that Prince would not be bothered if you told him you hadn't enjoyed those albums , but, for some other people who come to the org they would count among their favourites. I for one would never try to justify any artist for producing an album that I didn't like by saying, "Oh.....they must have done this whilst under contractul obligation". That's bollocks. Dig, or dig not.....

scififilmnerd said:

Edith Xxxxxx I can't remember either!

The Vault tarnished the brand name Prince - NPS and Rave certainly tarnished the name O+>.

I've read in a UK music magazines [I think Q] a very positive review of C&D - "guitars turned up to 11" the only quote I can remember.

As with TGE, the only thing stopping it from being more a success was the lack of promotion/support from Prince. I mean Same December certainly deserved to be released as a single surely...surely!!!!!?

And I'm still getting my head round the fact Empty Room wasn't re-recorded in the nineties. I've just read through the linked thread you put up above. I get two honourable mentions from you. Thank you.

"With only 497 views, it would appear that some Prince fans have yet to catch on to the fact that Chaos and Disorder actually is as integral a part of the 1993-1994 era as Come & Gold who score much higher ratings with threads like this. Those Prince fans are missing out."


- SciFi