poetbear68 said:

There's no way this would've been The Dawn. The Dawn was rumored to be compiled of tracks that were TOO GOOD to leave on other albums. Half of the songs you list here are fillers, at best.

Standout tracks from your list: Days Of Wild, Strays Of The World, and of course Empty Room. The only Dawn-quality song I see here is Empty Room.

I'm not saying that I don't like or love ALL of these songs, but I am looking at it from a production standpoint of making the "perfect" album that supposedly was going to blow Purple Rain away.

Well, the things I do know about the '93/'94 "The Dawn" are...

1. It would have consisted mostly of tracks that ended up on
Come and The Gold Experience (plus other tracks from around this period)

2. It was planned (at least at one point) to be a triple album.
This was one thing that Prince wanted to do ever since WB had refused
to release Crystal Ball. In fact I would go as far as to say that this
was also the reason why Emancipation was a triple album. Prince (or
should I say , as he was then) wanted his first 'free' album to be
a triple album 'masterwork'. When it became apparent that the '93/'94
material would never get released as a 'free' album (at least until
1999), then the concept was abandoned, and 'The Dawn' idea was shelved.
The 'concept' was then resurrected a few years later with Emancipation.

3. It would have contained the NPG Operator segues (just like The Gold
Experience). In fact The Gold Experience could be seen as a pared down
version of what The Dawn was going to be. They were used as a way of
linking together what would have been a very diverse album full of many
musical styles.
[Edited 9/10/05 8:39am]

I agree that The Dawn would have been released during the Come/Gold era, but I don't agree that it would have been comprised of that material exclusively.

Se7en said:

I never said it would. I'm sure Prince would've updated some earlier tracks
for the project too, as well as some tracks that we're unaware of. For one,
I'm sure the real album would've had a title track, and I wouldn't be
surprised if Prince reworked things like 'When The Dawn Of The Morning Comes'
for it as well. I do think that the majority of material on the album
would've been new stuff though. 'The Dawn' wasn't going to be a compilation
of tracks (like Crystal Ball), it was going to be a new album.

This whole "DAWN" topic is very fascinating but.....I'm READY 4 a NEW PRINCE album!!!!


Let's Work!

This is facinating. The 1993-1996 period is one of my favorites just based on the material and the mystery of the era. I wish that things went better than they did but we still have great music from this time.

BorisFishpaw said:

Oops, I didn't intend to out you. I meant for the sentence to be read as a reference to the track list you posted.

Anyways, with your detailed knowledge of the production of the tracks, I'm sure people with real minds would have peeped it out anyway.

And I simply must tell you, Borisfishdear, that I ran into a fellow Danish Prince fan at the Seal concert in Copenhagen earlier this year. I know him from way back at Lovesexy '88. He said he had heard your The Dawn and called it "brilliant" and "amazing" and said it gave new life to old classics.

The poor dear is not an orger, though. He says the org is too negative.

So he frequents that there other place, what'sitcalled?Housequake? So I thought I'd pass the compliment on to you.
[Edited 9/10/05 11:35am]

BorisFishpaw said:

I agree. I think it would have been comprised entirely of new or newer material, like Emancipation.
[Edited 9/10/05 11:42am]

jedinpg said:

But... that wouldn't even be half as exciting as if he were to put The Dawn as put together in 1993/1994 up for sale on NPGMC.

scififilmnerd said:

I agree with ya! I'd love 2 have it...AND a NEW PRINCE album....

Pretty.

Did you make that yourself, Boris? I am impressed.

scififilmnerd said:

Glad you like it. Here's the back cover...

BorisFishpaw said:

You're a pro! It looks really good.

I can tell you right now that this is the best fan made release ever in the Prince community. Every P fan should have it. It is brilliant work.

I remember reading an article at around the time of the release of Emancipation where P was still talking about a possible future release of "The Dawn" and how he had some tracks put aside for it that were some of his best work. I suspect that perhaps that was a little hype on his part.

BorisFishpaw said:

Hence why you know so much about it then !

In the absence of the real thing perhaps I'll have to try and 'find' a copy then. Especially if it has the segued Come /Endorphinmachine as I've yet to get my hands on the 'released' 1993-94 outtakes circa from last year.

But no Zannalee Boris!!!!!

BorisFishpaw said:

Well, it's not worse than "Emancipation".

Boris, I love this compilation and it does really breathe life to some older tracks. I am curious about the inclusion/exclusion of some tracks, though. These are all just personal opinions, though, and not meant to take away from the wonderful work you did on the set. Just curious. For example:

Welcome 2 The Dawn - well, this makes sense, I guess, and it was probably written around this time, but to me it seems out of place given the 1997 release on The Truth. Wasn't he considering a new The Dawn release in 1996/1997, so this track may have been written/recorded then instead.
Don't Talk 2 Strangers - this seems out of place, since it's from the 1992 I'll Do Anything sessions, and appeared in 1996 on Girl 6.
Somebody's Somebody - I know the Derek Hughes version was recorded around this time (I was given the Sampler Experience tape at the first Sheffield 1995 show), so I guess Prince's was too - because it was on Emancipation, though, this seems out of place with me.
Face Down - this is the one that really seems out of place to me - unless there's any reason to think it was recorded earlier, this seems like such an Emancipation-era track.
2Morrow - in an Emancipation promo-interview, it was mentioned that he recorded this after the relase of Emancipation.
Extraordinary - well, who knows where this comes from... I guess I like to look at The Dawn as a replacement for Come/TGE/C&D and the Gold-era tracks from Crystal Ball. Including this song means The Vault is affected too. Again, all just personal opinion.

As for songs not included:
Dark
Solo
Orgasm/Poem (understandable, in my humble opinion)
We March
I Like It There
Dinner With Delores
Right The Wrong
Zannalee
I Rock, Therefore I Am
Into The Light
I Will
Dig U Better Dead
Had U
Da Bang
Calhoun Square
Poom Poom
Funky Design

and maybe the Exodus tracks.

OK, now that I'm typing all that out, it's turning into a very different project. Still, I'd love to hear your thought process about what was included and not included. I'm guessing a lot of it was based on alternate versions, rather than just putting together a set of released tracks in a different order.
[Edited 9/12/05 9:26am]

My 'The Dawn' does contain a fair amount of artistic licence as well as
starting life as a more genuine attempt at creating something pretty close
to what would've been released in 93/94, had 'The Dawn' actually been completed.
A lot of the mixes and segues are based on real sequences or live performances
of tracks. i.e. the Come/EndorphinMachine/Space segue is genuine (though I did
replace the original version of Come with the Beautiful Experience remix). Also
Peach/Chaos And Disorder was a frequently performed incarnation of the song
(though with the Chaos And Disorder part being an instrumental vamp). Lemme
See That Body Get Loose is based on several live renditions from this time,
and the same goes for my extended version of Race (which was often segued into
SuperHero live). Other mixes I did were done to give the song an 'ending' it
didn't ordinarily have (as one of the 'rules' of the Gold Experience tracks
was that they should all 'end' like they would live, with no tracks merely
fading out). Other tracks were included because even though they were not
part of the 93/94 sessions, they 'fitted' into the flow of the album better
than some other more 'contemparary' tracks. Here's a quick address to some of
the ones you've pointed out...

Welcome 2 The Dawn - well, this makes sense, I guess, and it was probably written around this time, but to me it seems out of place given the 1997 release on The Truth. Wasn't he considering a new The Dawn release in 1996/1997, so this track may have been written/recorded then instead.
True, as far as I'm aware 'Welcome 2 The Dawn' was recorded 96/97, so
would not have been around for the 93/94 version of The Dawn. I decided to
include it as the album was missing a title track, and it worked so well as
an understated album intro. It's also quite possible that the track (or
something similar) was recorded this early, as Prince has a thing about
always including a title track on his albums.

Don't Talk 2 Strangers - this seems out of place, since it's from the 1992 I'll Do Anything sessions, and appeared in 1996 on Girl 6.
Again, it was included because it 'fitted' with the flow of that part of
the album. plus Prince albums rarely only include exclusively brand new material,
so it's a possible addition (it also almost made it onto 'The Vault' which
was assembled around this time)

Somebody's Somebody - I know the Derek Hughes version was recorded around this time (I was given the Sampler Experience tape at the first Sheffield 1995 show), so I guess Prince's was too - because it was on Emancipation, though, this seems out of place with me.
It's only out of place because you're used to hearing it in the context of
Emancipation. It's very much a Gold era track (or Exodus era, would probably
be more appropriate, as it was going to be included on there at one point).

Face Down - this is the one that really seems out of place to me - unless there's any reason to think it was recorded earlier, this seems like such an Emancipation-era track.
Totally true, this one was complete artistic licence on my part. It's only
included because I did a mix of it that actually uses the backing track from
'Now' with the vocals from 'Face Down' over the top. So on my album, 'Now' and
'Face Down' are really just one long non-stop extended version of 'Now'

2Morrow - in an Emancipation promo-interview, it was mentioned that he recorded this after the relase of Emancipation.
Again, artistic licence. It was included due to it's loop from 'TMBGITW'.
I wanted a slow song for that part of the album, and the most obvious choice
'Dark' didn't quite seem to work in that context. Plus I wanted to continue
the recurring themes of the album (as with 'Come' and '18 & Over').

Extraordinary - well, who knows where this comes from... I guess I like to look at The Dawn as a replacement for Come/TGE/C&D and the Gold-era tracks from Crystal Ball. Including this song means The Vault is affected too. Again, all just personal opinion.
Again, it's about having the right song for the sequence of the album.
Extraordinary was actually recorded around the same time as the similar
'Damn U' from the album. And as I said before, had the Dawn actually been
released, it would have almost certainly contained a few tracks recorded
earlier. The same can be said for 'Empty Room' which is actually an old
Revolution track.

My 'The Dawn' started out as a straight forward collection of 93/94 tracks
similar to what you're describing, but it evolved into a more eclectic and
'tampered with' concept-piece. In the end I tried to do something new with
almost every track (usually by extending it or segueing it). Plus it was
originally created for my own enjoyment (plus a few friends), with no
intention of making it available to a wider audience. But everyone seemed
to like it so much, and it soon spread amongst the fan community.
[Edited 9/12/05 17:11pm]

bkw said:

I agree. I listened to it nonstop for the last few weeks. Incredible. Only bummer is a few of the tracks on mine skip...alot, so it's not a completely fulfilling experience. But, it is an awesome release.

BorisFishpaw said:

Really? Very cool - I didn't know that.

Boris, thanks for taking the time to write a thorough response to my questions. You clearly gave this project a lot of thought. Now if only Prince's version had leaked in the same way yours did...

so,that tracklist posted above is the great big album that Prince was planning to release back then?! He talked about 'The Dawn' in a 1996 Rolling Stone article,saying that "the world ain't ready for this one yet".I was thinking it was some big,mysterious album containing stuff that we had never heard before.

The compillation sounds great Boris, shame I'll never get to hear it.

DavidEye said:

Goodness, no!

Read the thread properly.

Why, it says "what if" in the very first post.
[Edited 9/13/05 7:53am]

SciFi says: "This thread has proved to be of quite some relevance with its shocking revelations and thorough and illustrated insight behind a Prince fans-ically acclaimed work honoring one of the most interesting eras in Prince history. With a little bitch-slapping between an orger or two added, it's an instant hit."

DavidEye said:

No, the actual tracklist is unknown. But it's a good bet that the 1993/4
version of 'The Dawn' would've included a lot of those tracks.

There were actually at least 3 attempts to put together an album called
'The Dawn' over the years.

The Dawn #1 (1986)
This was planned to be a musical film as well, the concept of which would
eventually turn into Graffiti Bridge (after many re-writes). Work started
on 'The Dawn' after the Parade tour finished. Songs recorded for this
incarnation of 'The Dawn' included; 'Crucial', 'Coco Boys' and 'When The
Dawn Of The Morning Comes'. The project got shelved when Prince started
recording the 'Camille' album instead and disbanded the Revolution.

The Dawn #2 (1993)
This version would have mostly featured tracks that ended up on 'Come' and
'The Gold Experience' (and probably some that ended up on 'Crystal Ball' and
'Chaos And Disorder'). It was planned (at least at one point) to be a triple
album (mainly because WB had refused to let him release a triple album in
the past). It was planned to be ''s first release (and be released
free of WB). Unfortunately this idea quickly fell through when it became
apparent that he wouldn't be able to free himself of WB until at least 1999
(and it would be impractical to sit on the songs that long before releasing
it). He also didn't feel inclined to supply WB with his 'masterwork' and let
them release it either (not that they'd be very keen on releasing a triple
album of new music anyway). The only legacy of this version of 'The Dawn' was
the creation of all the NPG Operator segues.

The Dawn #3 (1996)
Having now released most of the '93 'Dawn' tracks, Prince started to put
together another new version of the album after the release of 'Emancipation'.
Very little is known about this incarnation, but I suspect it probably wasn't
still going to be a triple album (as 'Emancipation' had already fulfilled
that little ambition). The track 'Welcome 2 The Dawn' was credited as being
"from the 4thcoming album - The Dawn", when it appeared on the b-side to
'The Holy River' cassette which was given away through Borders stores. Also
a snippet of the non-acoustic version of the track was played on the 1-800-
NEW-FUNK answerphone at the time too (this was a completely different recording
to the acoustic version, sounding more epic, like 'Gold' or 'Last December').
Both versions were intended to appear on 'The Dawn', but other than that,
hardly anything is known about the project.

There's also still the possibility that an album called 'The Dawn' will
someday be released. But Prince seems to be of the belief that IF he does
release an album with that title, it needs to be nothing short of stunning.
He has commented occasionally that he's been hoarding great tracks for
the project.
[Edited 9/14/05 11:25am]

Something tells me that The Dawn is no longer an idea that interests Prince. He used to use "the dawn" in many of his lyrics, and "May U live 2 C The Dawn" was a phrase he used in many a credit. I think with all the "Welcome 2 The Dawn" mentions on The Gold Experience, and using the song itself on The Truth, he may have used the idea as much as he wants to. Have there been any references to "the dawn" (the idea, not the album) since 1997?

booyah said:

Dunno. Maybe it contradicts his Jehova beliefs? Now The Dawn would probably have to be The Apocalypse or The Judgment Day instead.