What some of you people don't realise is that quality is much more important than quantity. You are always talking about how Prince plays MORE instruments, how Prince writes MORE songs. Don't give me this shit about how Prince has whole vaults full of good music. 99.9% of this music is probably below mediocre, if it was any good he would've surely have released it. He should spend more time making good songs and not do the whole 'make an album in 2 weeks' shit.

Say if a painter paints 5 paintings a month, it does not make him a better painter than one who paints 1 painting a month.

Maybe Prince could use an additional producer to guide his music into the right path.

SEXYMOFO said:

Again...I'm not about to get into a pissing contest on who's the better artist...I think such arguments are a bit personal...My statement was targeted at your questionable post concerning songwriting...I'm judging MJ and Prince at their primes, because let's face it, both have seen better days and it's only natural that they slow down (Both are close to 50...People are living in the past if they think they can reach their past monumental heights)...

So if we judge MJ and Prince during their prime years in songwriting there really is no contest...I mean really, MJ released two solo albums in the '80s (78's Off The Wall remains his best, in my opinion), wrote some damn good songs with his brothers (Triumph is really underrated) and wrote two songs for his big sis and Ms. Ross...Prince released a string of challenging releases that included four groundbreaking and artistically praised releases (Dirty Mind, 1999, Purple Rain, Sign O The Times) not to mention writing songs for everyone from the Bangles to Patti Labelle..Dudes' B-sides were as good or better than anything his peers were putting out.

To me MJ's brilliance and genius was always in his live performance and vocalization, not in his songwriting...The thing that even the most obsessed MJ fan has to admit is his connection with Q, Rod Temperton, Teddy and the like will always take away from MJ getting the credit (right ot wrong) for being truely great songwriter...When I listen to an MJ song (that he actually wrote) such as "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough" I don't say, 'Wow, listen to the layers of the song or he is really making a musical statement and breaking new ground..' What I say is, 'Damn, I want to dance all night to this song; this guy has the greatest voice; does dance music get any better than this?" ("Stranger In Moscow' comes as close to genius as any of his work in terms of songwriting)...

MJ is an out of this world performer with an uncanny sense of melody...But he is not one of the great songwriters of our time...He is however, the greatest performer of our time (in his prime). Let's cut it out with the revisionist history with MJ. It's like ever since the re-releases of Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad came out, hardcore MJ followers have gotten the courage to trumpet his songwriting and production skills because of a few enlightening early demos that include "Billie Jean..." If you find yourself naming the same 6 to 8 songs as an example of MJ's songwriting brilliance, i think you've already lost the argument...
[Edited 9/6/05 12:21pm]

murph said:

Over the years, I have watched MJ perform and I am inclined to agree with you. While writing his songs, he typically use a team of collaborators while brainstorming ideas as you stated. Whereas, on stage its basically a one man show. Eventhough I am partial to P, I have to admit MJ does give a hell of show and know one can take that away from him.

SEXYMOFO said:

Excellent Point!! A little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing...agreed Prince releases more and creates more music but most of Prince's music is really really rubbish. He HAS 2 create so much so that he can get lucky and maybe find a few good songs 2 release an album...the man's got musical Diorreah and just keeps makin' song after song after song that doesn't mean shit...that become bootlegs or the black album cos their sooooo poor...But he does from time 2 time create genius like 'Glam Slam' & 'Do me baby'

Juice-- What you don't realize is that quality of music is just an opinion. You could find many who would say that Prince's worst song is still better than MJ's worst song.

Juice said:

Have you ever heard the black album?
Do you like Prince's music?
[Edited 9/7/05 7:02am]

murph said:

My thoughts exactly-- i get the unresistable urge to shake something when listening to MJ's best. I get the unresistable urge to write something down when listening to P's best. And there, my friends, is the difference.

Murph , u are the man.com.

hellomoto said:

As a born and raised mj freak, i am offended, moto. I was on ur side of the fence for years, until i started buying my own records and actually seeing what was out there besides my spoonfed michael-- AND I PICKED PRINCE.

I was the little girl that knew all the mj moves and songs and read about it and went to the concerts.

I actually thought Prince was a freak-- he's just not as kid-friendly (pardon the pun). But as i explored the world outside of my family's reach, i grew to know some much more impressive material.


I suggest you hit the shelves hard, and grab the first five albums of P-- you wont be a traitor, i promise, it'll just help you get out from under the warbled screams of the gloved one.

8-)Prince plays multiple instruments!
Prince writes all of his own songs!
Prince writes and gives songs away that become hits for other artists!
Prince utilizes older artists talents in his band to keep their legends alive and to familiarize a new generation with these icons (eg: Larry Graham, Chaka Khan, Miles Davis, Maceo Parker, etc.) not to mention new artists (Candy Dulfer, Lenny Kravitz, Gwen Stefani, etc:). No one can compare to this guy in the music world as far as I'm concerned.

cinnamonjo said:

Yes..& here's the truth about the black Album:






1. Le Grind Silly nonsense that shows an ability 2 play instruments but an inability 2 play good melody
2. Cindy C. Listen 2 the lyrics..did P write this when he was in Kindergarten?
3. Dead On It The worst rap song ever..regardless of it's intended humour
4. When 2 R In Love Better suited 2 lovesexy (a good album)
5. Bob George Ridiculous song with that stupid voice found in TRC
6. Superfunkycalifragisexy stupid song inspired by a Disney film
7. 2 Nigs United Terrible Noise, scratchy and un disciplined..it stinks
8. Rockhard In A Funky Place..not a bad song that

Juice said:

If you don't like the guy why are you wasting time on this FAN based website. Go spill your negativity elsewhere!!!

DBW said:

-- it really wasnt that bad, Juice. Really not that bad.

MJ is POP and Prince is FUNK so would comparing the 2 be fair since they are both in a class by themselves?

DBW said:

Okay. I don't think there's a need for that homie...You can see that he/she is just trying to get a rise out of folks...But don't treat the org like it's some communist block...I think this person has the right to say whatever they want, no matter how absurd...Let's not turn this into a MJ or Mariah Carey site...I like the fact that we can say whatever we want about Prince...It's up to the fans (not fams) to speak up for the little man...But no need to shut anyone down..

murph said:

ThankQ Murph.. cos last time I looked this was a Prince Discussion website and not a Prince Worship website

murph said:

Shake Your Body
Lovely One
Heartbreak Hotel
Can You Feel It
Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough
Workin' Day & Night
Get On The Floor
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
Billie Jean
Beat It
The Way You Make Me Feel
I Just Can't Stop Loving You
Smooth Criminal
In The Closet
Remember The Time
Black Or White
Who Is It
Will You Be There
Someone Put Your Hand Out
They Don't Care About Us
Stranger In Moscow
Morphine
Superfly Sister
Is It Scary
Heaven Can Wait
You Rock My World
Speechless
Whatever Happens

I consider those to be among the best songs that MJ has either written or co-written. A few more than the same 6-8 songs. Prince has written no more genuinely great songs than that, imo. He just releases more.

Cloudbuster said:

My point exactly.. Only real stupid people think that the Quantity of an Artist's work make's it superior 2 another Artist who has released less work. Prince simply releases 2 much sub-standard rubbish that no1 wnats 2 hear... N.E.W.S and the awful Rave CD's , Chaos and Disorder (albeit his last 4 WB) and so many others...Pardae was unfinished nonsense and much of D&P anf Symbol was embarrasing at best.

MJ on the other hand has released a consistent stream of great music and understood that breaks between albums were good and that anticipation 4 his music was better than havin' it every 6 months like P was doin'..

Don't get me wrong, Prince has written and performed some of the best songs ever created but fact is..thats only about 11% of his work...and thats me being generous

A CHALLENEGE TO JUICE: and anyone else who wants to play



Juice--- the problem with your entire argument is that is has nothing to do with facts and everything to do with opinion.

You think MJ has released a consistent stream of good music? I think you'd find many who thought "Invincible" was horrible and not worth the long wait. In fact, I bet you'd find a lot of people think that MJ's music took a sharp downturn after "Thriller". If I told you that after "BAd" Michael Jackson made shitty music does that make me right? No. Just as you thinking that 89% of Prince's is shit doesn't make it so. Don't get me wrong I love me some Michael Jackson, but I think your arguments are weak.

Juice--I challenge you to this: Below are 5 different categories that we can compare MJ to Prince . Convince me, that MJ is better without using your own bias and then you'll have a good argument. until then, you are just talking shit and telling everyone your opinion like it is THE TRUTH.

Compare Prince to MJ in these 5 categories:


Song writing-----




Live Performance-----



Musicanship (Instrument playing,producing,etc.)-----



Variety of Musical styles-----



Legacy (how they'll be remembered)-----





We can always come up with different categories, but I think it is a bit much to compare clothes, looks, awards, etc.
[Edited 9/8/05 6:40am]

I'd add SINGING, and LONGETIVITY in that list

Prince will be remembered 4 the lifetime of his surviving fans...Michael Jackson is a legend and will be rembered 4 All time..

LightOfArt said:

How about we add vocals? Help me with longevity- you mean how long a person has been around? OR been successful? Because Vanilla Ice is still around if you know what I mean.

Juice--you don't wanna play?

skywalker said:

And Vocals cos The Bee Gee's can sing high but..

Prince is the musician's musician. (bring him up and you will get reverence)

MJ is the musician's joke.(bring him up and you will get a laugh)

Other than a few bubble-headed pop inspired idiots(Justin Timberlake, Pink, etc etc) this is the case.

People who know the ins & outs of how music is created know the score.

The sad defenders of "Shomon" dont have the first clue.

Cloudbuster said:

Okay...Once again, I'm not about to make this an argument on whose better...MJ or Prince...because this is a truely personal taste. But it just cracks me up when hardcore MJ fans (I myself am an oldschool MJ fan from 77 to 84, and I believe Dangerous is his most underrated work) try to trumpt up his songwriting/production prowess by listing a few songs that he wrote, co-wrote and co-produced...Listen, there's just no debate when it comes to songwriting...Prince is just far superior...

The 28 songs that you listed make up 1999 and Purple Rain alone--music that was written and produced soley by Prince. As I've stated in previous posts MJ has written some kick ass songs with his brothers (Destiny and Triumph were solid); a few standout solo tracks on Off The Wall and Thriller and all of Bad, which to me is not his best work (Dangerous is his most underrated album)..And I believe "Stranger In Moscow" is MJ at his best in terms of mature songwriting and stellar production...

I keep hearing all of this talk about quality over quantity, but when you judge both P and MJ in their respective prime years such talk goes out the window. When MJ was working with Quincy Jones, Prince was writing and producing B-sides that was as good as any of Mike's best work, in terms of songwriting and production. Prince was writing songs for a plethera of artists (The Time, Patti Labelle, Sheena Easton, Bonnie Raitt, The Bangles ect...); the man's work (that was actually written and produced by P) was being covered by everyone from Chaka Khan, Sinead O' Conner, and even Tom Jones (LOL..don't hold that against me)...I mean there's simply no contest when it comes to songwriting...And I'm not even going to talk about his '80s songwriting output...

Listen, there's no need to boost up MJ's songwriting/production skills to prove the man's greatness...MJ doesn't need that...His many genius live and video performances, his infectious songs and his peerless iconic status (P and Madonna wish they had the across the board cultural impact as MJ) says eneough about the man... MJ was in a class by himself....He was the ultimate entertainer who went beyond his pop ambitions...The dude is truely one of the greats...But let's not try to make the man out to be Bob Dylan...MJ was never about that..
[Edited 9/8/05 11:31am]

murph said:

Ur Point is taken but again my friend it seems U miss the point.
If U R gonna say that Prince is a better songwriter merely because he has written more songs then with that logic what u are saying is that anyone who has written more song than Prince is a better songwriter than prince...so Roy Orbison who even in death has surpassed Prince in song quantity is better huh? not a very good argument that.

MJ's not a great lyricist, that's for sure. But music, vocals, melody and emotion are all part of what makes a song, too. In those areas Michael excells... he's written or co-written as many truly great songs as Dylan or Prince.

Cloudbuster said:

It's time 4 the Kate Bush spam of the day:



have a nice day!
[Edited 9/9/05 4:23am]

Cloudbuster said:

Kashka from bagdad lives in sin they say with another man...