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PrintableIce9sFine said: ThreadBare said: Though there's a reference to G minor in this song, the song's in F major...G minor works in it, though, but as the second. Not the root. Well, if you wanted to get technical, the song is really in G Dorian, which is, key signature-wise, the same as F major, but is more closely related to G minor than F major. For example, you wouldn't say "Oye Como Va," which is in A Dorian, is in the key of G major, would you? And to add to the confusion, the vocal line is kinda sung in B-flat major. Really, we could start an entire thread on Prince songs in which his singing implies a different key than the one in which the song is written or played. A few examples: - "Sign 'O' The Times" has a bass line that is mostly C minor, but Prince sings the verses in C Mixolydian. - "17 Days" is in G minor, but the vocal lines imply B-flat major and even F major over that. - "Hello" (and many other Prince songs, for that matter) seems to simultaneously function as a song in B-flat major and B-flat minor. - "7" (and yet many more songs) has a bass line that vamps over the phrase: "A...E G E G E A...E G E G E," and yet Prince's vocals will sing an E7 chord over the same line. Usually, the G-natural in the bass and G-sharp in the voice would clash, but it works. Leave it to a genius like Prince to come up with those crazy sonic combinations that work like a dream. A Dorian IS in the key of G major, it's the second mode. But as with most things tehre are many ways to look at it. I think with songs like "Sign O' The Times" and songs where he tends to improvise the melody a bit, you cant'really analyze some of the notes he sings as more than passing tones, but in the case of the minor 3rd against a major chord or vice versa, I think you can explain that by calling it a blue note, or if you wanted to analyze the harmony, you could say it's a 7#9 chord (a dominant 7th chord taht contains BOTH the major AND minor 3rd. Ray CHarles kinda brought that chord to the masses) | |
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guitarslinger44 said: Ice9sFine said: Well, if you wanted to get technical, the song is really in G Dorian, which is, key signature-wise, the same as F major, but is more closely related to G minor than F major. For example, you wouldn't say "Oye Como Va," which is in A Dorian, is in the key of G major, would you? And to add to the confusion, the vocal line is kinda sung in B-flat major. Really, we could start an entire thread on Prince songs in which his singing implies a different key than the one in which the song is written or played. A few examples: - "Sign 'O' The Times" has a bass line that is mostly C minor, but Prince sings the verses in C Mixolydian. - "17 Days" is in G minor, but the vocal lines imply B-flat major and even F major over that. - "Hello" (and many other Prince songs, for that matter) seems to simultaneously function as a song in B-flat major and B-flat minor. - "7" (and yet many more songs) has a bass line that vamps over the phrase: "A...E G E G E A...E G E G E," and yet Prince's vocals will sing an E7 chord over the same line. Usually, the G-natural in the bass and G-sharp in the voice would clash, but it works. Leave it to a genius like Prince to come up with those crazy sonic combinations that work like a dream. A Dorian IS in the key of G major, it's the second mode. But as with most things tehre are many ways to look at it. I think with songs like "Sign O' The Times" and songs where he tends to improvise the melody a bit, you cant'really analyze some of the notes he sings as more than passing tones, but in the case of the minor 3rd against a major chord or vice versa, I think you can explain that by calling it a blue note, or if you wanted to analyze the harmony, you could say it's a 7#9 chord (a dominant 7th chord taht contains BOTH the major AND minor 3rd. Ray CHarles kinda brought that chord to the masses) That's some crazy shit, brah! I really, truly wish I could relate  (i hate smileys)
Shöne Gruß  "Whatever skin we're in
we all need 2 b friends" |
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Ice9sFine said: He probably hears chords before he even knows what the names of them are. A mind like Prince's can do that. oh, but all it takes is an ear to do that. if the music is in your head, transcribing it afterwards is a snap. it might be a gift. if you have it in your head, you can't possible, for example, sing off-key or transcribe something in the "wrong" key (unless on purpose). the music is permanently imprinted on your brain, in the right key, and it doesn't leave or change... i thought this was the case of all musicians, until recently some folks set me straight. and someone else told me that some musicians do not necessarily have good rhythmn either... i was so naive. :blush: | |
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Is there any chord or melody in any Prince song that you would say doesn't quite sound right? Not on purpose, accidentally? | |
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Heiress said: Ice9sFine said: He probably hears chords before he even knows what the names of them are. A mind like Prince's can do that. oh, but all it takes is an ear to do that. if the music is in your head, transcribing it afterwards is a snap. it might be a gift. if you have it in your head, you can't possible, for example, sing off-key or transcribe something in the "wrong" key (unless on purpose). the music is permanently imprinted on your brain, in the right key, and it doesn't leave or change... i thought this was the case of all musicians, until recently some folks set me straight. and someone else told me that some musicians do not necessarily have good rhythmn either... i was so naive. :blush:If you have any degree of ability on an instrument, especially the way Prince does, you usually KNOW how to get the sounds you're hearing. It's kinda like seeing the color blue and knowing it's blue. But yeah, not all musicians are good with rhythm, and it's worse when it's a DRUMMER! | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Is there any chord or melody in any Prince song that you would say doesn't quite sound right? Not on purpose, accidentally?
The reason I asked about the B flat chord in Sometimes it Snows in April is that I think it sounds wrong. I know others love it, and I know it was done on purpose, but I don't think it fits (ice9 ... sometimes when he plays it live on piano, he does a decending run on the right hand with the top note being a G) In terms of accidental wrong notes, I can only think of a few examples on live boots. One example that springs to mind is Morning Papers from around 1992 in London ... for the part "if he poured his heart into a glass and offered it like wine" ... he leaves the studio melody, and sings a harmony line ... but hits a bum note or two (in my opinion). I don't think there will be any examples of studio wrong notes, as he's too much of a perfectionist not to re-do them. L [Edited 9/4/05 8:48am] I'm just, I'm just Levi from the org | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Is there any chord or melody in any Prince song that you would say doesn't quite sound right? Not on purpose, accidentally?
I've always thought that the chord he hits on "sometimes I WISH..." on SOmetimes It Snows In April was funky, but in a bad way. It seems like he didnt' really know how to harmonize taht note because he doesnt' really even play a full chord on it. It's jarring which can be cool but in that particular song it sounds ugly to me because of the way the rest of the song sounds. | |
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guitarslinger44 said: calldapplwondery83 said: Is there any chord or melody in any Prince song that you would say doesn't quite sound right? Not on purpose, accidentally?
I've always thought that the chord he hits on "sometimes I WISH..." on SOmetimes It Snows In April was funky, but in a bad way. It seems like he didnt' really know how to harmonize taht note because he doesnt' really even play a full chord on it. It's jarring which can be cool but in that particular song it sounds ugly to me because of the way the rest of the song sounds. AMEN ... Always felt he'd have been better sitting on the A major chord, or going up to a C# minor, before the B major. The rest of the song does contain a lot of notes which don't (technically) fit in an E major key, BUT they're all variations of chords that DO belong there (E major / F# Minor / A major / B major) ... so they sound fine. The B flat just sounds wrong to me. L I'm just, I'm just Levi from the org | |
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guitarslinger44 said: Heiress said: oh, but all it takes is an ear to do that. if the music is in your head, transcribing it afterwards is a snap. it might be a gift. if you have it in your head, you can't possible, for example, sing off-key or transcribe something in the "wrong" key (unless on purpose). the music is permanently imprinted on your brain, in the right key, and it doesn't leave or change... i thought this was the case of all musicians, until recently some folks set me straight. and someone else told me that some musicians do not necessarily have good rhythmn either... i was so naive. :blush:If you have any degree of ability on an instrument, especially the way Prince does, you usually KNOW how to get the sounds you're hearing. It's kinda like seeing the color blue and knowing it's blue. But yeah, not all musicians are good with rhythm, and it's worse when it's a DRUMMER! 
you've got to be kidding... | |
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Prince uses Bb for almost all his funk songs. I've never learned any other artist's funk and I wonder if they use it, too or if that's just Prince.
Maybe this has to do with the fact that most hornplayers play better in Bb (or F) than in A (or E). As far as my favourite song in C#(Db): how come you don't call me anymore. I wrote the chordchanges for this song in an earlier post. Check them (and reply with comments/corrections please)!! jazzz [Edited 9/4/05 12:16pm] [Edited 9/4/05 12:17pm] [Edited 9/4/05 12:18pm] |
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I can't say that I agree with most of what has been said here.
Going back to the top... Heiress: It is true that any competent musician should be able to reproduce exactly what they hear in their head. Any musician who is worth their salt should have a good ear. I remember some friends of mine being stunned when I told them that I do all of my transcribing, including full orchestral scores, at a table without any instrument nearby. But any good musician can do that. It is a fairly common trait. And regarding all of the dispute about the "Sometimes It Snows In April" chord: It definitely takes some time getting used to that chord because it is so "out there," not part of the usual E, AMaj7, G#min7, B7, and F#9 (which is itself a non-harmonic chord that sounds more tame to the ears) chords which comprise the piece. Being that I have a very exotic sense of harmony, I never thought it was out of the ordinary to play that chord, and, in fact, I loved it from the start. For some reason, I see a picture in my head when he plays this piece, and then when the BbMaj9 comes up, the picture all of a sudden changes hues. It's like going from a whitish-green color to this flooding blue. It's very beautiful. But "strange" chords like this are not out of the ordinary. For example, take Stevie Wonder's "Sir Duke," a song which Prince and The NPG have covered before. Does anybody think that the chorus, which starts with a B major chord then goes to an F minor, is "awkward" or "bad?" The non-harmonic root is the same as "Sometimes It Snows" (a tritone from the root [E to Bb in "Snows" and B to F in "Duke"]) but it works, doesn't it? I remember first hearing that chorus and being completely amazed as to how it could work so well. Tritones are almost always a no-no (especially in harmony, unless you're Scriabin), but this one really works. Or how about Stevie's "That Girl?" In the middle of the verse, he goes from G#min to Asus13, then to DMaj7, then to GMaj7, then to a C/F# (or F#(b5 b9)). This last chord is especially jarring, but to me it just sounds so cool. I've always admired Stevie's sense of harmony. It is unparalleled by any living person, I believe (the Beatles as a group, especially George Harrison, would be a viable contender). Prince tends to break as many rules as Stevie does. What about the cardinal rule that vocal harmonizations cannot be a fourth or a fifth apart? What about short little snippets in "When You Were Mine" and "She's Always In My Hair" when he breaks this rule blatantly? It just seems to give it another color to me. I guess it just depends on one's sensitivity to music and how exotic one's taste can be. I used to be much more conservative, and at that time I probably would have thought that a C#m would have been good for "Snows," but now I realize that every OTHER artist would have done that, so why not do something different? something that does much more to change the flavor or direction of a piece? | |
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Well, if we were in Germany, H would be B-natural, so I guess that's possible. But, then, H-flat = B-flat = B (in European notation).
Yeah, J.S.Bach, the great German songwriter, used to write some themes with the notes from his name B-A-C-H. That's what I heard..... Jazzzzz... |
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The chorus alternates between CMaj7 and AbMaj7 (or AbMaj9). It's a really cool device that Prince utilizes quite a bit, to a great effect.
Doesn't this mean that he alternates between Cmaj7 and Cm (with Ab bass). This might even suggest that the whole tune is leaning towards Gmajor (haven't checked it by listening). The 4th degree is often changed 'from major to minor..', as Nat used to tell us.. BTW in a lot of Prince' music, also his early stuff, he uses a lot of slash chords, implying a top-tonality over a bass-tonality. Is this a variation of the earlier discussed technique of Prince singing in one scale over chords in another scale? What's your opinion? jazzzzz... |
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jazzz said: The chorus alternates between CMaj7 and AbMaj7 (or AbMaj9). It's a really cool device that Prince utilizes quite a bit, to a great effect.
Doesn't this mean that he alternates between Cmaj7 and Cm (with Ab bass). This might even suggest that the whole tune is leaning towards Gmajor (haven't checked it by listening). The 4th degree is often changed 'from major to minor..', as Nat used to tell us.. BTW in a lot of Prince' music, also his early stuff, he uses a lot of slash chords, implying a top-tonality over a bass-tonality. Is this a variation of the earlier discussed technique of Prince singing in one scale over chords in another scale? What's your opinion? jazzzzz... "What Do U Want Me 2 Do?" is most definitely in C major. Yeah, you're right, it is very common to have the subdominant chord alternate between major and minor, particularly in a plagal cadence because the perfect fourth and the minor sixth of the minor subdominant are both only a half step away from the major third and the perfect fifth that comprise the root major chord. But this tune clearly is in C major, with the Ab major thrown in for color. This is one of those chords that sounds strange at first but is really colorful and, upon further listening, can become very pleasant. It is possible that Prince's singing in one key over another harmonic structure relates to his use of slash chords. It really common, and a very interesting technique, to use what is called a pedal tone to create unique tonal soundscapes. For example, some people love holding a C in the bass and then playing a C major chord, then an Eb (which would imply minor), then a D, then a Db, then back to C. Happens quite a bit in hip-hop music. | |
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Are "slash chords" chords that are not... uhm,forget it. Does he use those in the bridge/chorus in When You Were Mine for example? [Edited 9/4/05 13:45pm] | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Are "slash chords" chords that are not... uhm,forget it. Does he use those in the bridge/chorus in When You Were Mine for example?
[Edited 9/4/05 13:45pm] Yeah, during the chorus, there are some chords that could be interpreted as slash chords. The chord progression goes E/A B E/G# E/A, or something very similar to that. The E/A could also be heard as an AMaj9 or an Aadd9 or an Asus2, depending on whether you hear the major third and or the major seventh. The ninth (B) is in there for sure. The E/G# is also, by definition, a slash chord, but what it really is is just an E major chord, first inversion. To avoid the confusion, some people like to differentiate between the two and use another term known as "added bass." The E/A would be an E with an A added in the bass. Every chord larger than a triad can be labeled in at least two, if not more, different ways. | |
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moonshine said: andyman91 said: Yep me likey g flat majors with e's in the bass  or E 6/9 dim 5th (no 3rd) |
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Levi said: In terms of accidental wrong notes, I can only think of a few examples on live boots. One example that springs to mind is Morning Papers from around 1992 in London ... for the part "if he poured his heart into a glass and offered it like wine" ... he leaves the studio melody, and sings a harmony line ... but hits a bum note or two (in my opinion).
i was going to start a new thread on his tendency to randomly follow a line away from the main melody when improvising while singing live(like adopting a background vocal a 3rd above the main melody). He seems to go for whatever sounds right at the time, and its easy to follow, with experience of improvising, when you have sung around the main melody, to grasp another above or below (say, a fifth). Eg Get Off main melody is = minor 3rd, 2nd to root. Live he may sing minor 7th, 6th and 5th instead. |
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spoida said: Levi said: In terms of accidental wrong notes, I can only think of a few examples on live boots. One example that springs to mind is Morning Papers from around 1992 in London ... for the part "if he poured his heart into a glass and offered it like wine" ... he leaves the studio melody, and sings a harmony line ... but hits a bum note or two (in my opinion).
i was going to start a new thread on his tendency to randomly follow a line away from the main melody when improvising while singing live(like adopting a background vocal a 3rd above the main melody). He seems to go for whatever sounds right at the time, and its easy to follow, with experience of improvising, when you have sung around the main melody, to grasp another above or below (say, a fifth). Eg Get Off main melody is = minor 3rd, 2nd to root. Live he may sing minor 7th, 6th and 5th instead. I've noticed he does it a lot too. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he sings the melody so often, he gets bored with it eventually. My other theory is that he is constantly thinking in harmony. A lot of his studio work includes that rich multi layered harmony using his own voice over and over ... often he picks out harmonies that I'm convinced no other writer / composer would even dream, let alone record. Perhaps his tendancy to harmony means that sometimes he forgets which line is the natural melody 
I feel sometimes it works, but perhaps more often than not, I'm left wishing he'd stuck to the melody we all know and love. The recent release of "Question Of U" on NPGMC is a good example. L I'm just, I'm just Levi from the org | |
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Levi said: spoida said: i was going to start a new thread on his tendency to randomly follow a line away from the main melody when improvising while singing live(like adopting a background vocal a 3rd above the main melody). He seems to go for whatever sounds right at the time, and its easy to follow, with experience of improvising, when you have sung around the main melody, to grasp another above or below (say, a fifth). Eg Get Off main melody is = minor 3rd, 2nd to root. Live he may sing minor 7th, 6th and 5th instead. I've noticed he does it a lot too. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he sings the melody so often, he gets bored with it eventually. My other theory is that he is constantly thinking in harmony. A lot of his studio work includes that rich multi layered harmony using his own voice over and over ... often he picks out harmonies that I'm convinced no other writer / composer would even dream, let alone record. Perhaps his tendancy to harmony means that sometimes he forgets which line is the natural melody
I feel sometimes it works, but perhaps more often than not, I'm left wishing he'd stuck to the melody we all know and love. The recent release of "Question Of U" on NPGMC is a good example. L What bothers you about The Question of U? | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Levi said: I've noticed he does it a lot too. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he sings the melody so often, he gets bored with it eventually. My other theory is that he is constantly thinking in harmony. A lot of his studio work includes that rich multi layered harmony using his own voice over and over ... often he picks out harmonies that I'm convinced no other writer / composer would even dream, let alone record. Perhaps his tendancy to harmony means that sometimes he forgets which line is the natural melody
I feel sometimes it works, but perhaps more often than not, I'm left wishing he'd stuck to the melody we all know and love. The recent release of "Question Of U" on NPGMC is a good example. L What bothers you about The Question of U? Bothers is maybe a bit strong .. I just prefer the original studio melody, to the one he used in last year's version. L I'm just, I'm just Levi from the org | |
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I started a thread about Prince's use of keys a while ago. Can't seem to find it now...
But what I always found the most fascinating was his tendency to actually utilize all 12 (or 24, counting major and minor) keys - that is, if he has 12 songs on an album, he's likely to put almost every song in a different key! Not many other artists would (or could) do that to such an extent! Here are some examples: "For You" album: For you (F) In love (Fm) Soft and wet (Ab) Crazy you (Bm) Just as long as we're together (Em) Baby (A) My love is forever (E) So blue (C) I'm yours (C#m) "1999" album: 1999 (F) Little red Corvette (Db) Delirious (G) Let's pretend we're married (Bb) D.M.S.R. (C#m) Automatic (Eb) Something in the water (Ebm) Free (D) Lady cab driver (Bm) All the critics love U in New York (Fm) International lover (B) "Sign'o'the Times" disc 1: Sign O'the times (Cm) Play in the sunshine (A) Housequake (Fm) The ballad of Dorothy Parker (Em) It (D) Starfish & coffee (A) Slow love (F) Hot thing (Gb) Forever in my life (G) "Sign'o'the Times" disc 2: U got the look (B) If I was your girlfriend (Bbm) Strange relationship (Dm) I could never take the place of your man (C) The cross (E) It's gonna be a beautiful night (D) Adore (G) "Symbol" album: My name is Prince (Bbm) Sexy MF (A) Love 2 the 9's (F) The morning papers (Bb) The max (A) Blue light (Bb) I wanna melt with U (A) Sweet baby (C) The continental (Eb) Damn U (A) Arrogance (Em, kind of) The flow (Em) 7 (A) And God created woman (Ebm) 3 chains o'gold (several keys, including D and Gb) The sacrifice of Victor (C) "Emancipation" disc 1: Jam of the year (Bm) Right back here in my arms (Fm) Somebody's somebody (Am) Get yo groove on (Eb) Courtin' time (Bb) Betcha by golly wow (Eb) We gets up (F) White mansion (A) Damned if I do (A) I can't make you love me (Bb) Mr Happy (Am) In this bed I scream (E) "Emancipation" disc 2: Sex in the summer (Ab) One kiss at a time (F) Soul sanctuary (C) Emale (Fm) Curious child (G#m) Dreamin' about you (Bm) Joint 2 joint (Gm) The holy river (A) Let's have a baby (F) Saviour (E) The plan (Am, kind of) Friend lover sister mother wife (D) "Emancipation" disc 3: Slave (indefinite) New world (F#m) The human body (G#m) Face down (E) La la la means I love U (Db) Style (Ebm) Sleep around (Bbm) Da da da (Em) My computer (Bm) One of us (F#m - A) The love we make (G) Emancipation (F) "Musicology" album: Musicology (B) Illusion, coma, pimp & circumstance (Am) A million days (Dm) Life o'the party (E) Call my name (Bb) Cinnamon girl (Bbm) What do U want me 2 do (C) The marrying kind (Em) If I was the man in ur life (G#m) On the couch (G) Dear Mr Man (G#m) Reflection (E) Many times when writing and recording a song, Prince doesn't know whether it will eventually end up on a particular album (as I understand it). Therefore we can probably omit the possibility that he purposely writes songs in specific keys in order for them to fit on an album ("Let's see...now I need something in A flat...") However, I'm sure he's considering the different keys when putting together an album out of previously recorded material - possibly even leaving out certain songs if its key might be overrepresented. In any case, I think it's clear that the combinations of keys on his albums are not coincidental but very consciously assembled. | |
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RealMusician said: I started a thread about Prince's use of keys a while ago. Can't seem to find it now...
But what I always found the most fascinating was his tendency to actually utilize all 12 (or 24, counting major and minor) keys - that is, if he has 12 songs on an album, he's likely to put almost every song in a different key! Not many other artists would (or could) do that to such an extent! Here are some examples: "For You" album: For you (F) In love (Fm) Soft and wet (Ab) Crazy you (Bm) Just as long as we're together (Em) Baby (A) My love is forever (E) So blue (C) I'm yours (C#m) "1999" album: 1999 (F) Little red Corvette (Db) Delirious (G) Let's pretend we're married (Bb) D.M.S.R. (C#m) Automatic (Eb) Something in the water (Ebm) Free (D) Lady cab driver (Bm) All the critics love U in New York (Fm) International lover (B) "Sign'o'the Times" disc 1: Sign O'the times (Cm) Play in the sunshine (A) Housequake (Fm) The ballad of Dorothy Parker (Em) It (D) Starfish & coffee (A) Slow love (F) Hot thing (Gb) Forever in my life (G) "Sign'o'the Times" disc 2: U got the look (B) If I was your girlfriend (Bbm) Strange relationship (Dm) I could never take the place of your man (C) The cross (E) It's gonna be a beautiful night (D) Adore (G) "Symbol" album: My name is Prince (Bbm) Sexy MF (A) Love 2 the 9's (F) The morning papers (Bb) The max (A) Blue light (Bb) I wanna melt with U (A) Sweet baby (C) The continental (Eb) Damn U (A) Arrogance (Em, kind of) The flow (Em) 7 (A) And God created woman (Ebm) 3 chains o'gold (several keys, including D and Gb) The sacrifice of Victor (C) "Emancipation" disc 1: Jam of the year (Bm) Right back here in my arms (Fm) Somebody's somebody (Am) Get yo groove on (Eb) Courtin' time (Bb) Betcha by golly wow (Eb) We gets up (F) White mansion (A) Damned if I do (A) I can't make you love me (Bb) Mr Happy (Am) In this bed I scream (E) "Emancipation" disc 2: Sex in the summer (Ab) One kiss at a time (F) Soul sanctuary (C) Emale (Fm) Curious child (G#m) Dreamin' about you (Bm) Joint 2 joint (Gm) The holy river (A) Let's have a baby (F) Saviour (E) The plan (Am, kind of) Friend lover sister mother wife (D) "Emancipation" disc 3: Slave (indefinite) New world (F#m) The human body (G#m) Face down (E) La la la means I love U (Db) Style (Ebm) Sleep around (Bbm) Da da da (Em) My computer (Bm) One of us (F#m - A) The love we make (G) Emancipation (F) "Musicology" album: Musicology (B) Illusion, coma, pimp & circumstance (Am) A million days (Dm) Life o'the party (E) Call my name (Bb) Cinnamon girl (Bbm) What do U want me 2 do (C) The marrying kind (Em) If I was the man in ur life (G#m) On the couch (G) Dear Mr Man (G#m) Reflection (E) Many times when writing and recording a song, Prince doesn't know whether it will eventually end up on a particular album (as I understand it). Therefore we can probably omit the possibility that he purposely writes songs in specific keys in order for them to fit on an album ("Let's see...now I need something in A flat...") However, I'm sure he's considering the different keys when putting together an album out of previously recorded material - possibly even leaving out certain songs if its key might be overrepresented. In any case, I think it's clear that the combinations of keys on his albums are not coincidental but very consciously assembled. Really interesting fact noted here. I think that, rather than Prince choosing of keys in order to "round out" an album, he chooses keys based on their color. Some people with a very highly developed musical mind will interpret every key as a different "color" (for lack of a better word). For example, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, a famous Russian composer, would very often say that such-and-such piece by Tchaikovsky would have been much better suited in, say, F# than in its present key. Franz Liszt was also the same way. To him, A Major was like a very glorious blue, and many of pieces are in A Major (strange, because Prince seems to exhibit a tendency toward A Major as well). So you are probably right in saying that his choosing of keys is not coincidental. Prince is looking to make an album of many "colors," and utilizing several many keys probably helps him to do just that. As to him leaving out "overrepresented" songs, if he were to do so, it would have to do more with too much of a certain "flavor," as it were. This is identical to, say, a painter not wanting to put too much red in his landscape for fear of destroying the overall impact of the picture. | |
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Ice9sFine said: Really interesting fact noted here. I think that, rather than Prince choosing of keys in order to "round out" an album, he chooses keys based on their color. Some people with a very highly developed musical mind will interpret every key as a different "color" (for lack of a better word). For example, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, a famous Russian composer, would very often say that such-and-such piece by Tchaikovsky would have been much better suited in, say, F# than in its present key. Franz Liszt was also the same way. To him, A Major was like a very glorious blue, and many of pieces are in A Major (strange, because Prince seems to exhibit a tendency toward A Major as well).
So you are probably right in saying that his choosing of keys is not coincidental. Prince is looking to make an album of many "colors," and utilizing several many keys probably helps him to do just that. As to him leaving out "overrepresented" songs, if he were to do so, it would have to do more with too much of a certain "flavor," as it were. This is identical to, say, a painter not wanting to put too much red in his landscape for fear of destroying the overall impact of the picture. Yeah, it's the same way for me, as a matter of fact - I also see musical keys as different colors! Something like this: C: white, or red Db: yellow D: yellow Eb: unclear...could be green, blue, or black. Definitely a "masculine" color! E: green F: dark blue Gb: orange G: orange Ab: red A: red Bb: brown B: light blue I don't know where this comes from... I've noticed that when you display the keys chromatically (as above), the order somewhat resembles the colors of the rainbow...but not quite. However, I'm sure that for another person, the colors would be different. Personally, I don't consciously think about this when I'm writing songs. I choose keys mostly after vocal range, instrumental capabilities and stuff like that. But I'm sure it's affecting me subconsciously... | |
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Pffff, I have different colors for each number, 4 would be green, for example.
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This thread is turning my brain inside-out 
I have questions about songs, if I may be so bold... "Face Down (X-tended Money Mix)" seems to be put into another key, or tried to, at least. Along with "So Dark" (the 'demo' version of "Dark" on the 'Crystal Ball' compilation), it just doesn't sit quite right with me as far as, well, key changes? , key alterations?? I have no way to describe it, but it makes my hair stand on end. Is there a musically logical explaination for these versions? I bet it's waaaaay over my twisted noggin, ain't it? Schöne Grüße "Whatever skin we're in
we all need 2 b friends" |
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I don't believe people dont like the Bb chord on sometimes it snows in april, it's very pretty and unexpected to my ears. The best part of the song surely.
I didnt saw anyone mention Do You Lie, it has some jazzy key changes but in the end it's all pretty and POP. Incredible. |
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nayroo2002 said: This thread is turning my brain inside-out
I have questions about songs, if I may be so bold... "Face Down (X-tended Money Mix)" seems to be put into another key, or tried to, at least. Along with "So Dark" (the 'demo' version of "Dark" on the 'Crystal Ball' compilation), it just doesn't sit quite right with me as far as, well, key changes? , key alterations?? I have no way to describe it, but it makes my hair stand on end. Is there a musically logical explaination for these versions? I bet it's waaaaay over my twisted noggin, ain't it? Schöne Grüße Actually, I think "Dark" (from the "Come" album) came first, and "So Dark" was done later. However, "Dark" is mostly in the key of F major, except for the bridge ("like an innocent man...") which goes from Db-Gb-Db-Eb and then back to F. "So Dark" has the same vocals and horn parts, but with a new rhythm track underneath, in which the F major sections have been replaced with Dm - Gm. This is actually a very easy thing to do, since F major and D minor are parallel keys - that is, their scales contain the exact same notes. Therefore, a melody in F major will usually fit quite well with a D minor accompaniment (and vice versa). No big deal. Prince did the exact same thing with the "Mustang Mix" version of TMBGITW - changed the original major key to its relative minor. | |
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RealMusician said: nayroo2002 said: This thread is turning my brain inside-out
I have questions about songs, if I may be so bold... "Face Down (X-tended Money Mix)" seems to be put into another key, or tried to, at least. Along with "So Dark" (the 'demo' version of "Dark" on the 'Crystal Ball' compilation), it just doesn't sit quite right with me as far as, well, key changes? , key alterations?? I have no way to describe it, but it makes my hair stand on end. Is there a musically logical explaination for these versions? I bet it's waaaaay over my twisted noggin, ain't it? Schöne Grüße Actually, I think "Dark" (from the "Come" album) came first, and "So Dark" was done later. However, "Dark" is mostly in the key of F major, except for the bridge ("like an innocent man...") which goes from Db-Gb-Db-Eb and then back to F. "So Dark" has the same vocals and horn parts, but with a new rhythm track underneath, in which the F major sections have been replaced with Dm - Gm. This is actually a very easy thing to do, since F major and D minor are parallel keys - that is, their scales contain the exact same notes. Therefore, a melody in F major will usually fit quite well with a D minor accompaniment (and vice versa). No big deal. Prince did the exact same thing with the "Mustang Mix" version of TMBGITW - changed the original major key to its relative minor. That So Dark stuff worked for part of the song. He must have decided that a dark song needed minor chords. But it just didn't fit all the horn parts, nor did it fit all the different parts of the song, like the chorus. The Mustang Mix worked better. Do U Lie is a uses some very traditional changes (ii, V, I) but changes keys within the melody, so that it's going from I to ii V I in a different key (1/2 step higher), then ii V I in the original key I think. It's a simple trick, but it makes for a very interesting melody. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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Alas, I am unfamiliar with "So Dark" and the other remixes of other songs. Deprived, I tell ya!
This technique, of putting a melody line together with another key, be it related or not, is kinda interesting and can really produce some interesting results. I love how some jazz artists reharmonize a well-known piece and make it sound completely new. | |
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