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Reply #30 posted 08/19/05 6:26am

Novabreaker

BlurredEye said:

Novabreaker said

:

Depends on the remastering technique. And the only way to any way properly improve the "tonal balance" of those recordings would be to work with the multi-track mixes, and somehow I don't see the scenario where someone would be forced to sit at the analog desk all through his twenty albums and get them all right

Not entirely true, using a multi-band compressor you can acheive great things. Trust me, I used one.


Not entirely true. I wouldn't use a multi-band compressor on a full mix ever if the mix itself wasn't clear enough on its own right. That is if we are talking about commercial releases and not just some off-the-cuff demos that can be improved/spoilt with such trickery. Besides, I doubt Prince would be that happy about someone else messing up his own mixes with multi-band compressors as any type of compression inexorably changes the overall feel of the mix. Trust me, I have used several on a daily basis.

If Prince himself wouldn't supervise the production of those remasters I wouldn't want to touch them. Prince's music's value stands somewhere completely else than at booming bass and airy high-end.
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Reply #31 posted 08/19/05 10:19am

BlurredEye

avatar

Novabreaker said:

BlurredEye said:

Novabreaker said :
Not entirely true, using a multi-band compressor you can acheive great things. Trust me, I used one.


Not entirely true. I wouldn't use a multi-band compressor on a full mix ever if the mix itself wasn't clear enough on its own right. That is if we are talking about commercial releases and not just some off-the-cuff demos that can be improved/spoilt with such trickery. Besides, I doubt Prince would be that happy about someone else messing up his own mixes with multi-band compressors as any type of compression inexorably changes the overall feel of the mix. Trust me, I have used several on a daily basis.

If Prince himself wouldn't supervise the production of those remasters I wouldn't want to touch them. Prince's music's value stands somewhere completely else than at booming bass and airy high-end.


Thanks for your interest in this post. However, I wish that you wouldn't keep dismissing the quality of such works without having heard the results.

If you would like an example e-mail me and we can discuss what you think via that method.

Thanks
-----------------------------------------------

Only confused men wear loafers!
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Reply #32 posted 08/19/05 10:46am

Jestyr

squirrelgrease said:

Jestyr said:

If you just want Prince CDs that sound better, buy the Japanese releases. I've been collecting them all during this past year and so far there hasn't been a single one that hasn't been an absolute revelation, sonically! It's like discovering these records for the very first time; especially with headphones. I'm hearing things I never would have known were part of the US CD recordings.

One of the best kept secrets in the music world of Prince.


Interesting that you say that. I'm not disputing your opinion, but I have Controversy, Dirty Mind and For You on Japanese CD, and there is very little difference, if any(compared to US/Euro pressed discs) as far as sound quality. Maybe it's just my ears, but I do consider myself to be pretty anal about digital audio.

The vinyl mastering blows away all the early Prince CDs anyway as far as depth and clarity. Of course, vinyl has it's own flaws as a format.


There's some factual basis for the difference other than opinion. A US CD pressing facility uses the same master to manufacture 100,000 copies of any given release, while the Japanese have much higher qualty standards and change their glass masters after every 10,000 pressings. So you are actually getting a closer 'image' to the original master than the American releases. I have also noticed some European CDs are of equal sonic quality to the Japanese ones, but those are hit and miss, so that's why I chose to simply re-purchase the catalog in all Japanese CDs.
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Reply #33 posted 08/19/05 7:08pm

squirrelgrease

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Jestyr said:

squirrelgrease said:



Interesting that you say that. I'm not disputing your opinion, but I have Controversy, Dirty Mind and For You on Japanese CD, and there is very little difference, if any(compared to US/Euro pressed discs) as far as sound quality. Maybe it's just my ears, but I do consider myself to be pretty anal about digital audio.

The vinyl mastering blows away all the early Prince CDs anyway as far as depth and clarity. Of course, vinyl has it's own flaws as a format.


There's some factual basis for the difference other than opinion. A US CD pressing facility uses the same master to manufacture 100,000 copies of any given release, while the Japanese have much higher qualty standards and change their glass masters after every 10,000 pressings. So you are actually getting a closer 'image' to the original master than the American releases. I have also noticed some European CDs are of equal sonic quality to the Japanese ones, but those are hit and miss, so that's why I chose to simply re-purchase the catalog in all Japanese CDs.


There is no doubt that Japan has long been known for their CD production quality. But they can only get so much out of the master discs that Warners gave them. The same can be said for the US and Euro pressing plants. You can't chrome-plate a turd. Be that as it may... you know that The Hits/B-Sides has just been re-released on Japanese CD again. smile
If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot.
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Reply #34 posted 08/19/05 9:14pm

MrRedbell

I would only shell out for remasters that had unreleased bonus tracks.
Hell, I still haven't replaced some of my vinyl!
If you wanna get higher, ya gotta get DEEP!
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Reply #35 posted 08/23/05 3:45am

Novabreaker

BlurredEye said:


Thanks for your interest in this post. However, I wish that you wouldn't keep dismissing the quality of such works without having heard the results.


I have heard plenty of WAVES/BBE home-made remasters that make me cringe. I am personally responsible for butchering some of the Prince bootleg outtakes when I was trying to improve the sound quality and didn't really know what I was doing back then. Hopefully, none of them circulate widely anymore. As for professional remasters of official albums I haven't been usually terribly impressed. What's the point of attempting to make recordings of the past decades sound like today's recordings? confused Bring the levels up to current standards, but no boosts and definitely no mid-sweeps. And anyone who adds reverb in the mastering process should be jailed.

Of course, anything would be better than the way SOTT and Parade CDs are at the moment. However, one of my main concerns is that many songs on Prince's mid-80s output lack bass instrumentation altogether or have very little of it. When we start raising the bottom levels there will be a significant difference between songs that have bass and those that don't. His kick drums are always quite strong in the mix, and whatever you do with them, the characteristics are going to change drastically even with minor alterations.

Those recordings will be remastered oneday. I agree they definitely need it, but in the meantime I am glad to twiddle the knobs on my sound system until that day. I'm gonna twiddle them anyway, remastered or not. I can't help it. smile
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Reply #36 posted 08/23/05 5:52am

JediMaster

avatar

Novabreaker said:

BlurredEye said:


Thanks for your interest in this post. However, I wish that you wouldn't keep dismissing the quality of such works without having heard the results.


I have heard plenty of WAVES/BBE home-made remasters that make me cringe. I am personally responsible for butchering some of the Prince bootleg outtakes when I was trying to improve the sound quality and didn't really know what I was doing back then. Hopefully, none of them circulate widely anymore. As for professional remasters of official albums I haven't been usually terribly impressed. What's the point of attempting to make recordings of the past decades sound like today's recordings? confused Bring the levels up to current standards, but no boosts and definitely no mid-sweeps. And anyone who adds reverb in the mastering process should be jailed.

Of course, anything would be better than the way SOTT and Parade CDs are at the moment. However, one of my main concerns is that many songs on Prince's mid-80s output lack bass instrumentation altogether or have very little of it. When we start raising the bottom levels there will be a significant difference between songs that have bass and those that don't. His kick drums are always quite strong in the mix, and whatever you do with them, the characteristics are going to change drastically even with minor alterations.

Those recordings will be remastered oneday. I agree they definitely need it, but in the meantime I am glad to twiddle the knobs on my sound system until that day. I'm gonna twiddle them anyway, remastered or not. I can't help it. smile


he he. You twiddle your knob! hah!
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #37 posted 08/23/05 10:12pm

Xtraordinary

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Only if some of the original engineers were allowed to do the re-mastering would I even want them touched. Re-masters should only be done by someone that knows what the music was/is about. I don't need some kid born in '78 telling me how "Just as long as we're together" should sound. I wonder is Susan would up for the job?
Who ever said Prince has lost it - has lost it. The Kid's still got game!
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