tru6ediva said:

No disrespect meant, but under inspection your argument is blinded somewhat by your fandom.

...and here are some of the reasons why.

1) Warner Bros gave Prince $180,000 - which at the time they had forcasted for three albums to put him on the map. 'For You' ended up costing Warner Bros $170,509 - and they still stumped up more. For a brand new artist, that's showing more than a little faith.

2) Probably the biggest career shift Prince ever made (without getting into all that silly business) was from 'Prince' to 'Dirty Mind'. Considering this was nothing more than a bunch of demos, and the high-risk nature of the records content, Warners still went with it when they could have put their foot down. Once again - belief in him and his art.

3) Warners up their promotion budget 5th album in, bigger budget videos, bigger tour, and MTV are pushed in the right direction.

4) Giving an artist the green light for a major motion picture on the back of 4 relatively succesful albums on home turf, and one with no real prescence outside of America to speak of... THAT'S belief.

5) Purple Rain - the movie, the album, the tour - if you're telling me they never promoted that era to it's fullest, you've seriously got your head stuck in the sand!

On the back of advice from on high to create a video for the lead off single 'When Doves Cry' to sell the movie upon (and as we all know, nobody had ever heard anything quite like that before - so this was damage control for this strange single at this point). The single sold over 2 million units, was number one for five weeks and became the biggest selling single of 1984 - all the while whipping up interest in the forthcoming movie because of THAT video.

Warners realised their artist had broken through, that their investment was paying off and set to work with (for it's time) a massive marketing campaign. It was nothing short of an all out promotional assault across all media to push the film for all it's worth. Normally, in the 70's and 80's, upon opening week a new film would be released to around 200 theatres nation-wide. Warners opened it in over 900, and added a further 200 the following week. Warners even stumped up $100,000 to pay for the post premier party shown on MTV.

What is often seemingly overlooked is that even up to his name change, he had very good friends at Warner Bros like Mo Ostin, Marylou Badeaux and Lenny Waronker, who had supported him through thick and thin. But friends or not, sometimes at the end of the day even they, (like Prince and the contracts he signed) had jobs to do too, and occasionally had to say 'no'. It may not please the artist to be told that a triple album 'just isn't going to fly', but it begs the question, would 'Sign o' The Times' be looked upon now with such respect if someone hadn't been there to occasionally apply a little pressure. Prince has never been good at editing himself.

Oh yes, Prince had friends at Warners, but like a child brought up wrong to have and expect everything when they ask for it he just got spoilt.




*spelling edit!*
[Edited 8/14/05 5:42am]

* Instead allowed the release of a gospel album, with him naked on the cover...
* Gave him the soundtrack of Batman to make some money.
* Allowed him to fuck up his success with GB.

muirdo said:

I think maybe he's referring to the tv series of Kung Fu. David Caradine played a novice seeking the Tao. When he'd go to the master for advice, the master called him "grasshopper" while speaking words of wisdom to aid in his path to enlightenment.

krayzie said:

I can't believe you guys are agreeing with Eric Benet.
The only thing fans and WB provided are money and fame. Call me an idealist but it's the music that made him successful. I don't buy Prince's "slave" nonsense but I also don't fool myself that WB was just out to nurture Prince either. They saw the potential earnings so they put up with a lot of his crap.

By the way, there's something wrong with you using that avatar, especially with that screenname.
[Edited 8/13/05 15:59pm]

true6diva i don't wanna insult u or nothing, but u REALLY need to snap back to reality, take the purple glasses off and be real.

warners didn't promote him?? didn't PUSH him? are u REALLY serious? please tell me ur jokin!

dude they let him produce himself! fuckin 18 yr old kid!!!
they let him release dirty mind!! thats an album of demos!! but they believed in him. so they released it.
they let him release atwiad after the monstrous purple rain, when they coulda said, NO! ur doing a pr2.
and speaking of purple rain they didn't even know how the movie would do. but they believed in him, put thousands of dollars behind it not knowin if it would hit. read all the other orgers comments dude, warners believed, promoted and pushed him.

contrary to ur belief prince is not only the product of talent.There are MANY talented brothas and sisters on the corner or in the club doin their thing and not getting noticed, many that probly make great music and sing good and write good lyrics. but they aint getting paid, they aint on the stage, they aint living big cuz they aint gettin noticed. if it wasn't for warners or any other record company "machine" takin notice of him, prince would probly still be in mpls doin the club thing, unless he decided to go indy. prince, whether u like it or not, is the product of a record company, he's the product of promotion AND i'll even go as far to say that he's also the product of HYPE.

whodknee said:

THANK YOU! And even Ice T said that WB is basically a Pimp, and the artists are "Hoe's". (Ice T was on WB when he came out).

whodknee said:

THANK YOU! And even Ice T said that WB is basically a Pimp, and the artists are "Hoe's". (Ice T was on WB when he came out).

tru6ediva said:

you could say that about any music label or movie studio.


it's about survival of the company. what makes the company surive?

Money.

This artist who is desperately trying to make a comeback had the nerve to say that Prince is a product of the record company "machine", and that is the reason why he has had so much success in his indie efforts!!!! WTF?!?!? I am so mad right now. This artist I used to like(his music), but when he made that comment it was like OH HELL NAW! Grasshopper, you have a looooong way to go to reach the heights of my man Prince! It has been his awesome talent that he has risen to the heights he is today, he only wishes he could do what our man has done. "Wannabe little Upstart!" lol Hmph, I'm still mad as hell! But I know my fellow org family will understand what I'm talking about.

everyone's opinion on this matter is all good and that's what's great about having an opinion. but just 2 keep fact from fiction (and the movie could have either been successful or an even bigger dud) but WB is the idea 4 the graffiti bridge that we all saw, not what prince had in mind. remember WB wanted a Purple Rain 2. so the concept prince had 4 GB was scrapped 4 WB's big idea.

true6diva i don't wanna insult u or nothing, but u REALLY need to snap back to reality, take the purple glasses off and be real.

Dude, I do not wear purple glasses. They wouldn't match w/my wardrobe.

BTW...Just because I have a difference of opinion than the majority of the people on this thread, and just because I don't agree with everyone, doesn't mean I don't live in reality. I have read everyone's responses and respect the opinions of those that have voiced them in an intellegent manner. I just don't agree. Simple as that. And I am able to voice that disagreement without being rude and insulting to others. That's what being a mature adult is all about.

tru6ediva said:

Hey,tru6ediva, where did you hear/read that Eric Benet said that? I've only heard him say positive things about Prince. In fact,I posed a question related to that (I mentioned Prince) in a chat on Friday and although I don't have the exact quote in front of me, he basically said that Prince had made a lot of money during his years with Warner that allowed him to take the "indie" route, that is is very expensive to arrange your own distribution and that sort of thing. There is nothing that I have gotten from Benet in interviews I've seen/heard or chats that would suggest that he would display the kind of arrogance you suggest. I think he only has respesct for Prince and perhaps your anger is misplaced. In any case, I am curious about where it came from.

Yeah, but who the F*** is Eric Benet???!!!!!

(guess I'll have 2 google - can't rely on orgers to voluntarily help out the ignorant!)

NewPowerSista said:

New Power Sista, I guess that you are "lovesigner" huh? Excerpts from said chat below:


lovesigner: Eric,in a chat a while back, you mentioned that Prince had influenced
you by showing that you could do your own thing and be successful. How do you see
the idea of bringing the music directly to the people as opposed to being signed to
a label? Does that suggest to you a subsequent downfall of the larger labels in favor
of independent ones or even downloads?

Eric: Basically it all comes down to distribution...It takes a gaaang of money to
get the word out about a new release.. money many indie artist dont have..but with
the rite distribution machine behind u anything is possible. Prince is able to
have success with the indie rout because he was already an icon (created be the
machine)by the time he decided to break away from the machine.

I say it again,I don't believe, nor do I support the idea that Prince was "created" by the machine. Maybe he didn't mean it in the way it came off at that chat, and maybe he didn't phrase what he wanted to say correctly.

Hate to disappoint, but the Prince we know today wouldn't be if it weren't for the so-called "machine." It doesn't have to be a slam, by any means. It is however very clear that Prince wouldn't be able to do the things he does today if he were a TRUE indie artist. The fact is that he was a product of the so-called "machine," and he's benefitted as a so-called "indie" artist because of his past with WB.

BTW, true indie artists don't have top grossing concert tours, or have their albums distributed by Sony.

It doesn't have to be a slam on Prince to say he was "created by the machine." It bears repeating that the Prince we know, the man, the legend, wouldn't be who he is today without the so-called machine. He'd still be extraordinarily gifted, of course, but he wouldn't be the musical icon he is today.

That's just the truth.
[Edited 8/15/05 8:29am]

tru6ediva said:

Hate to disappoint, but the Prince we know today wouldn't be if it weren't for the so-called "machine." It doesn't have to be a slam, by any means. It is however very clear that Prince wouldn't be able to do the things he does today if he were a TRUE indie artist. The fact is that he was a product of the so-called "machine," and he's benefitted as a so-called "indie" artist because of his past with WB.

BTW, true indie artists don't have top grossing concert tours, or have their albums distributed by Sony.

It doesn't have to be a slam on Prince to say he was "created by the machine." It bears repeating that the Prince we know, the man, the legend, wouldn't be who he is today without the so-called machine. He'd still be extraordinarily gifted, of course, but he wouldn't be the musical icon he is today.

That's just the truth.
[Edited 8/15/05 8:29am]

lovesigner: Eric,in a chat a while back, you mentioned that Prince had influenced
you by showing that you could do your own thing and be successful. How do you see
the idea of bringing the music directly to the people as opposed to being signed to
a label? Does that suggest to you a subsequent downfall of the larger labels in favor
of independent ones or even downloads?

Eric: Basically it all comes down to distribution...It takes a gaaang of money to
get the word out about a new release.. money many indie artist dont have..but with
the rite distribution machine behind u anything is possible. Prince is able to
have success with the indie rout because he was already an icon (created be the
machine)by the time he decided to break away from the machine.

NewPowerSista said:

New Power Sista, I guess that you are "lovesigner" huh? Excerpts from said chat below:


lovesigner: Eric,in a chat a while back, you mentioned that Prince had influenced
you by showing that you could do your own thing and be successful. How do you see
the idea of bringing the music directly to the people as opposed to being signed to
a label? Does that suggest to you a subsequent downfall of the larger labels in favor
of independent ones or even downloads?

Eric: Basically it all comes down to distribution...It takes a gaaang of money to
get the word out about a new release.. money many indie artist dont have..but with
the rite distribution machine behind u anything is possible. Prince is able to
have success with the indie rout because he was already an icon (created be the
machine)by the time he decided to break away from the machine.

I say it again,I don't believe, nor do I support the idea that Prince was "created" by the machine. Maybe he didn't mean it in the way it came off at that chat, and maybe he didn't phrase what he wanted to say correctly.

If recording companies were sooo bad and awful from Prince's perspective why did Prince release Musicology from a record company. Hmmm He Could have released Musicology independently with no major recording company behind him.Hmmmm

acjohns said:

I think the answer to that is he wanted to actually make some money. Not indie artist money, mind you, but MACHINE-level money.

Could you imagine Prince making Ani DiFranco level money? He couldn't keep the lights on at Paisley Park making that kind of money.

The origin of this thread is retarded.

.
[Edited 8/16/05 20:09pm]

DiamondGirl said:

Ah, now be nice. The origin of this thread is "special."