Let me start off by saying, I did not start this thread in order for it to become an all out discussion of the death of Prince's child. I know that particular topic has been discussed extensively and is addressed in great part in the FAQs posted for newer fans. I however just read something about the "Betcha By Golly Wow" video that I never really considered and it's throwing me for a loop. Prince's son died on October 23, 1996. Prince went on in November of that same year to shoot a video for "Betcha By Golly Wow" that featured images of him running through a hospital to attend to a pregnant and smiling Mayte. I know we all have different ways to mourn and move past certain painful issues but the fact that he came out with this video within a couple of months of his child's passing just struck me as plain weird. Was Prince trying to defuse the rumor of his child's death by doing this or is there more to it than that?

buddy, don't read too much into it. This is what prince does best, confuse us...

Hmm... sure u got those dates right? Emancipation was released November 19th. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing the video way in advance of that. I do know that when I saw the video, Mayte hadn't given birth yet. So to me, that says that the video was completed long before the birth of their son. That's what it made it all the more sad.
[Edited 8/8/05 19:49pm]

Snap said:

Per Nilsen's "The Vault" 2004 edition cites 11/09/1996 as the shoot date for the video and the video was premiered on 11/12/1996 at the beginning of the "Emancipation special" which was carried by channels such as MTV, VH1 and BET.

I always assumed that this video was filmed before the tragedy


it's possible that Uptown got the dates wrong

DavidEye said:

I wish that were the case because it would make more sense in terms or Prince's actions but Per Nilsen's documentation is considered to be of the highest caliber. Here is the timeline from page 198 of "The Vault":

November 4 1996 - "A death certificate form Prince & Mayte's baby is filed with the Hennepin County Medical Examiner. No father was listed and the mother's name was given as Mia Gregory. No name was listed for the baby."

November 9 1996 - "Prince shoots a video for "Betcha By Golly Wow". The video appears to be Prince's way of saying that everything was alright with the baby, as it shows him arriving at the hospital wearing medical garb to attend to a pregnant and smiling Mayte. The self-directed video features 50 dancers and gymnastic feats of Olympic gold medalist Dominique Dawes."

November 12 1996 - The video for "Betcha By Golly Wow" featuring said hospital footage is world premiered at the beginning of the Emancipation special.

November 15 1996 - "A different version of "Betcha By Golly Wow" (the video) premieres on Top Of The Pops, UK television. This version features Prince performing the song solo (and therefore completely omits the hospital footage.)"

It's this timeline that really caught me off guard. I understand Prince's efforts to deflect the issue during the Oprah interview and such but the "Betcha By Golly Wow" video timeline really floored me in terms of his behavior.

Wow!


It must have been extremely difficult for him and Mayte to film that video so soon after the tragedy.



...
[Edited 8/9/05 6:13am]

I'm shocked.

Averett said:

well it says he shot the vid on the 9th and it aired on the 12th...I'm no video production expert by anymeans but... 3 days to air? seems extreme to me. Perhaps many of the shots were previously filmed? Maybe Prince went to shoot some of his solo parts in the video like doesn't he get gas in his car and what not? My understanding of Mayte's disposition after the death of their child was utterly distraught, I can not believe she would be able to act out those scenes after the fact.
I dunno, I'm just sayin' the description in per's book leaves alot to the imagination. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Shorty said:

Just keep in mind that even prior to the video shoot issue, Prince and Mayte were interviewed by Oprah on November 4 1996 (13 days after the baby's death) and when asked about the child's status, both Prince and Mayte put up an incredible front to defuse the issue. I'm not sure how they were able to maintain emotional control during this entire period given their tragedy but they pulled it of "publicly".

Averett said:

actually when asked about the child all they said was "it's all good" or something like that. I agree it must have been terribly difficult to get through, I can only assume they NEEDED to defuse the situation to the media in order to keep their sanity.

That video shooting date cannot b right.

npgmaverick said:

What information do you have that can dispute it?

Mayte and Prince were already well aware there was a major problem with their child before birth and knew he wasn't going to live long, so you could possibly say they had come to terms with that destiny well before the birth. I could well imagine Prince accepting that it was 'god's will' and all that.

I think it likely that most of the video was assembled previously, but in any case Prince could have pulled it in light of what happened - he pulled the entire Black Album at the last minute, for heaven's sake.

The facts simply are, that the baby died and then Prince and Mayte pretended everything was fine only days after, concealed any grief they might have and continued with the promotion of Emancipation. The right and wrongs of that are merely dependent on your point of view.

Shorty's right, the entire video could not have been shot, processed, and edited on November 9th and aired on November 12th. You can't do a turn-around that quickly (even with a cheap video like Alphabet St. or Eye Like It There). All the dancers, the hospital shots, the gas station shots, the chroma key effect where he's standing in front of Paisley Park...not to mention processing all that footage and editing it...it would've taken several days to shoot, then several more to put together and get it delivered to the video channels. I work in television production, trust me, it's not possible for that video to have been shot on November 9th and been on the air November 12th.

All I want to know is did David Spade ever apologize to Prince for what he said about him on SNL? I'm sure Spade didn't know Prince cancelled because of his son's death, but after Spade found that out, was he man enough to apologize?

metalorange said:

really? That's the first I've ever heard that. Care to elaborate, please.

Averett said:

None. But "Betcha By Golly Wow!" is a fully produced video that was shot both at Paisley Park and on location. Even without film processing time, the video also featured a butt-load of animation and after effects that take lots of time 2 execute and render. With huge groups of people working simultaneously for 72 hours without stopping until air time, it could concievably b done, it's just highly unlikely. I stand by my initial post.
[Edited 8/9/05 10:03am]

RodeoSchro said:

What did David say?

Shorty said:

I read it in the 'Slave to the Rythm' book by Liz Jones - in the Epilogue. I know she is very gossipy and tabloidy - but the fact is, Mayte would have had an ultrasound scan which would have revealed the problem way ahead of the birth.

metalorange said:

well, I'm no ob\gyn or anything but...I do not believe an ultrasound would have revealed this problem. an ultrasound is given at like 10 weeks and then again around 20 weeks (give or take a week or 2) if the baby's head (and all other parts)was relatively average size and shape..there would be no cause for further tests. If the heart beat is good, and mom's pee isn't revealing anything..and mom's age (young) and health (good) aren't qualifying factors for further testing then...none would be done.
It sure didn't seem as if they had any idea that there was anything wrong.

Per Nilsen's "The Vault" states the following regarding September 13 1996:

"Mayte, seven months pregnant, is rushed to a hospital after experiencing sharp pains. At the hospital, the doctors checked her and ran test. By then, her pains had subsided and the doctors gave her good news that she had just been in false labour. However, later in the month (September), Prince and Mayte were advised by physicians that her pregnancy was not proceeding as expected and that their baby was likely to have birth defects."

The child was born on October 16 1996 and died on October 23 1996.

Looks like there were a few weeks of warning prior to the birth.

Averett said:

again...very vague. "likely to have birth defects" ranges from no birth defects at all to the worst of the worst.

Shorty said:

It may seem vague, but what do you expect? You're not going to get medical records or very specific details about because it was a very private matter. You have to read between the lines, and if you do that there it would appear they knew something was up in advance. Being rich, I'm sure Mayte would have been checked over left, right and centre and had tons of scans and tests to reveal the truth.

ok..this question has nothing 2 do with what u're discussing here...but I've always been curious 2 know what the line "Betcha by golly, wow" means..anyone?

metalorange said:

I don't "expect" anything. ?? You can read between the lines if you want...all I'm saying is ...if you choose to guess at what actually happened...keep in mind you are only guessing based on very vague information...and you're probably wrong.

"However, later in the month (September), Prince and Mayte were advised by physicians that her pregnancy was not proceeding as expected and that their baby was likely to have birth defects."

does not seem vague to me but to each their own.

Averett said:

like I said..."likely to have birth defects" could mean anything from NO birth defects to severe birth defects.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here averett?

Shorty said:

Was my comment that vague?

Shorty said:

What I mean is, what do you want for proof, scans of medical records?! Two seperate sources say that they were aware of the birth defect in advance - how much the parents knew about the severity, we can only guess at, but logic would suggest that they would have the best doctors going who would have been able to suss it out. I've also read that Prince had a life support machine installed at Paisley Park in readiness, also suggesting they knew it was very serious.

Yes, we can only ever guess how much they knew, just as much as you can only guess that they knew very little, but the evidence on the whole suggests they knew rather than didn't, at the very least towards the end of the pregnancy.