bkw said:

Ditto!!

This post may sound insulting to Prince but it's not meant to be. Prince has always released his best music when he's focused on something, or as me and my sister put it, when hes bonkers. Prince in the 80's was bonkers. Obsessed with his own status, insular and opinionated. Throughout the 90s nearly all his material was delivered with huge concessions to meet a mass audience. The only time he didn't play that game was 93-94 when he again got pissed off with his record company and again became "bonkers" and delivered Come/The Gold Experience and thus gave us arguably the best moments of that entire decade.

When The Truth CD came along Prince also became rather insular and introspective(death of child etc) This CD was also excellent. Forward to today and Prince indeed has a focus, wrapped up in his own little world, but now not caring about having a hit. His new found faith is all that matters, again like most of the 80s and some of the 90s bonkers Prince has returned. What Prince is saying is all that matters to him and aiming for commercial success is the last thing on his mind. Isn't that what we've wanted all along?!

Wildheart,

I agree with you. I think most artists are like that. It all goes back to true art containing raw emotion and not just doing what everyone else does, but doing something that comes from deep in yourself.

IsStenzek,

You make some good points too. I can't think of any artists who have been influential for much more than a ten year period. Some would say Madonna, but I believe she is influenced by other stuff and then brings it out for the mainstream, thus not really making her the originator of that influence. That was a mouthful!

O.K. Instead of just focusing on TRC & ONA, I am also going to focus on new songs made or released in 2001.


You had songs Like Underneath the Cream, When I Lay My Hands On U, Supercute, High & a few other tracks from the HIGH album which seemed cool enough.

Now, songs such as Supercute, which in my opinion, is his strongest "radio" song since Cream & Gett Off, are party songs. The kinds of songs that put Prince on the map. There was a time that a Prince song was not about a message but was put on there to make you groove (see every track on Gold Experience cept for We March for the last time Prince was grooving just to groove, no message bout record labels, at least not directly).
Now, you have an entire concept album. The track Sign O the Times, covered AIDS, drug abuse, & gangs. All in one song, & still left time on the album to have fun. Housequake, Hot Thing, IT, Starfish & Coffee. Then he throws in another statement. The Cross. One song. Not a whole cd aboutthe bible & it's beliefs.

Now to the Rainbow Children. "The parliment will be kept this time. see them fly fly fly" I cannot beleive I was actually singing this in concert. The grooves were qworking much better live then on record, which is the case with Prince. Even the funky tracks on TRC, were laced with meanings. Trying to get my funk on while knowing I have a theocratic order coming my way. As much as you all Love this cd tho, tell me, exactly how is it attracting newer fans? What is it doing to be different? No trends are set. It is funky cuz John Blackwell kicks so much ass on this cd. Prince got his funk back with this cd, but no new ground was broken. But if you were looking for the fun funky track, you better get your supercute on.

As for One Night Alone.
Avalanche. Stand out track. Why? Cuz it is the song on there where he sings with the most emotion. Does not mean it is the better track on there. It just stands out more cuz of his vocal delivery. Have a heart is the most deeply personal song on there, but his delivery...

U're gonna C me is good...I don;t see it as cheesy as some people do. When you compare it to good-bye on Crystal Ball, it is weak however. Why doesn;t his voice crack on the last time he says "give me a page on my two way" the same way it cracked when he said "is this really good-bye"?Because now what inspires him is getting his message across that he wants you to know that Lincoln was a racist.

This is not taking anything away from One Night Alone or Pearls b4 the swine or even A Case Of u, but, Avalanche's delivery is so much stronger then any of those songs.
It focuses that Prince now gets more inspired from talking about the scriptures & racism, then makin another Love song. Perhaps his inspiration for Love is not as strong as past loves.
No reason for Have a Heart to sound so flat. With songs like When Doves Cry & I hate U, the pain in his voice is strong, you can hear it as the listener. Why can't you hear it in have a heart?

As for the length of this cd. Would you really want 80 minutes of Prince on piano? Leave that to John Tesh. if you had 80 minutes of just piano, your ass would be asleep by the time the cd hit 45 minutes. Sides, he most likely woulda added purple rain on piano, which is something I woulda liked actually, but there woulda been filler & I think Prince rather have it stripped to the bone then filler.

Prince still has talent obviously & has gained creativity back in the past two years. But for every gem like Supercute or (insert track here), there are 3 other "Props n Pounds".

The coupling of TRC and ONA are definitely reason to be excited at what's ahead for Prince...artistically, yeah I'd say both of these albums can hold their own with much of his 80's output...but Prince's 80's stuff was most definitely pop music, which made it far more readily accessible and the greatness within each song more instantly recognizable...pop is structured to do just that, because it's meant to be heard on the radio and as thus must capture a listener's attention immediately...it didn't take 4 or 5 listens to see the musical artistry behind "When Doves Cry", but it took me that many listens to truly see how good "Ure Gonna C Me" is...is "Ure Gonna C Me" the equal of "When Doves Cry"??...Nope...but it's actually pretty damn good, far better than I originally thought...

The one thing his current output lacks that the 80's output had in spades, though, was innovation...but a lack of innovation doesn't equate to a lack of quality within the music...for me, I didn't recognize the innovation in Prince's earlier work until afterwards...I appreciated his innovation in hindsight...

As someone else already said, I think TRC and ONA are the beginnings of yet another artistic run from Prince...they aren't the peak, not yet...there will be albums that are more adventurous musically, more focused(although I think TRC was damn focused), and more exhilerating to come as he becomes more comfortable in his current musical status right now...he won't be returning to the sounds of NPS or Rave anytime soon(thank GOD)...

Wellbeyond,

I hope you're right. I don't think he'll return to the plastic, going through the motions sound, and I hope he'll keep his passion up. But you just never know what the next CD is gonna sound like.

wellbeyond said:

Not to start another 80s vs. current output discussion, but while it may have taken you 4-5 times to relaize the "artistry" behind WDC, it is a TIMELESS song, as was a lot of his 80s output. You really can't say that for much (much, not all) of his music from the past 6-7 years. I certainly wouldn't call this period "peaking", just much better than the past few albums (NPS, Rave, Emancipation, etc...) My only hope is that he continues to have much better output than the previous work!

Well beyond is right.

it was only after Purple Rain that Controversy & Dirt Mind were seen as classics.

SOTT was dissed when it first came out.

I would see peopel n they would say, Oh I lik his old stuff, which would include everything up to Lovesexy. Ask thme the same question 5 years later & they would say they liked his old stuff, from up to Graffiti Bridge. & so on & so on. People in the past two years are starting to appreciate the Gold Experience more n more.

The reason for this is simple; people did not like u're gonna c me right off the bat. Most stuff thati s not pop takes time to grow on you & only aftr other things have been released, can it truly be appreciated.

I mean you have people saying that ONA is a sad follow-up to TRC, but remember last year? It seemed a huge amount of people hated TRC. It takes time for things to grow, especialy if you compare it to other older material.
[This message was edited Thu May 30 11:06:59 PDT 2002 by jseven]

alexnvrmnd said:

I said it took that long to see how good "Ure Gonna C Me" is, not "When Doves Cry"...lol...and it's a bit too early to deem anything from TRC or ONA as not being "timeless"...both have been released in just the past 7 months...if we can still throw TRC in the CD player 10 years from now and it sound just as good as it does today, then we'll know whether or not it's timeless...it's too soon to tell one way or the other right now...


I agree, although we weren't talking about his music from the past 6-7 years, only his music from the past 6-7 months...TRC and ONA are so much better than NPS and Rave, and take Prince in such a different direction artistically, that for the purposes of this discussion I think Livewire was correct in omitting anything prior to TRC from consideration...


....yikes...an edit statement...!
[This message was edited Thu May 30 12:18:49 PDT 2002 by wellbeyond]

jseven said:

Not to distract from this incredibly great thread, however I could not help but laugh at the images that line created.

God, I needed to laugh today. Thank you!
[This message was edited Thu May 30 13:10:10 PDT 2002 by RoseOfSharon]

I think folks are getting confused by me using the term "peaking." I'm not suggesting that this is the high point of the run...not in the least! Notice that I didn't ask if TRC and ONA represent an artist who's peaked. My terminology is only meant to suggest that he's on an upward trajectory.

Think of it this way: moving from Prince to Dirty Mind, Prince was growing by leaps and bounds as an artist. But who could've foreseen that the career peak he was about to hit with the release of Dirty Mind (in an artistic rather than commercial sense) would last damn near 10 years and produce a continuous level of output that refashioned his early peak into a plateau? I don't think anybody saw it coming then.

My question is: If we read the signs (specifically TRC and ONA) carefully today, can we see the telltale indicators of another sustained period of top quality output?

My Magic 8-Ball says: "All signs point to 'Yes.'"

(And thanks to all who have participated in this thread. There hasn't been a lengthy discussion of the music this calm and thoughtful in a while. And I know more of you have opinions on this matter. Let's hear 'em!)

Peace, David

Yes!!!

I think this is what we've been waiting for since Prince promised us 'free music' back in 1995/96.

Not that these 2 cd's are the best he's ever done, but it's a good start. Let's say it's up to standard; this is what I expect from him... good music!!!

Really feels like FU-albums... he's making albums he wants to make... not what the outside world 'demands' (like Rave).


Peace,
TheKid

"Young & Beautiful", if fleshed out, would make an excellent pop single...actually kinda reminds me of 70's Elton John...lyrics aren't the best, but the song is just really, really good...(really..!)

SkletonKee said:

___

TRC is my all time favorite!!!

ONA must be something really special because I am not an emotional person, nor am I very romantic, but when I play ONA, my heart fills up and I have to control my emotions. I don't understand the power of this music, but powerful and beautiful it is!!! I can not imagine what is next!

wellbeyond said:

Ah ha!...that's it...I had said "Y&B" reminded me of "Raspberry Beret/Take Me With U", but it reminds me of Elton John's "Philadelphia Freedom" moreso than the two Prince songs, really.

Sorry, but ONA just hasn't grown on me yet. TRC I was immediately excited by on first listen. ONA...well...zzz. Then again, I don't really think I'm in the frame of mind to be listening to piano albums atm.

*shrug*

Bellebeyond said:

Yep, it does kinda have that "Philadelphia Freedom"-type bounce to it, doesn't it..lol..strip off the violins and extra instrumentation, and instead just have Elton John at the piano alone playing "Philadelphia Freedom", it would feel a LOT like Y&B...

Both great songs (Y&B and Philadelphia Freedom). I never heard the similarities until you mentioned it. Very interesting.

Of course, Silly Game sounded like a Hall and Oates song to me! Very philly-soulish.

jtgillia said:

Yep, it definitely does have a H&O sound to it...I hadn't thought of that before(maybe because I always skipped over it..lol)...

what is the big deal about his 80s influence in regards to the quality of his music now? he'll never be as influential as he was back then because he's not supported by a major label. And whether or not musicians will be influenced by what he's been doing recently is anybody's guess. Some of these predictions are just dumb.

jseven said:

Nor could anyone else around you - get the lyrics right next time.Because it can sound really cliched if he weeps crocodile tears, lays it on thick, repeats a trick etc..so best to lay off it. Besides, I find the emotion expressed on 'Goodbye' as less than convincing.I think the emotion expressed on Here On Earth, for example, is every bit as heartfelt and effective as on Avalanche - it's just a different emotion (possibly calling for a different intensity), demanding expression in a different way