What do you guys mean that singing in his normal voice back in the day "hurt his voice"? It was hard on his throat?

I did grow up listening to Prince in a vacuum as opposed to on a blues-soul continuum that could have offered a wider berth for comparison.

Sorry to hear that. You're missing out great music of the 20th Century!

I initially thought of him as a rare creature out of whose eccentric head all kinds of idiosyncratic things were springing ...

This has always been true of Prince and for the past 25 yrs many people have acknowledged that...they might have liked or understood it all i.e Rainbow Children but who cares!



... don't know if I would say that now. I'm not sure the things that most define him have neatly sprung from him alone.

That's like saying you're not totally an original human being because you carry characteristics of your parents. Mind you despite any influence in the studio, records, managers what have you, Prince's choices(what goes in/out, how it plays out) are uniquely his and at times accidently his see the making of Forver in My Life for further proof. All of this is what made him the band leader and NOT Andre Cymone.

But don't get me wrong, I didn't think his music was from scratch. I understand that all artists expand on what comes before. So I'm not totally naive.

Gotcha.

I'm not up in arms about generic imitation. But there are things that seem definitively Prince that are not unique to him at all. I'm not sure any of the main characteristics that define him are unique. And that's a bit amazing considering his god status.

"Imitation" is an soul-less expression. I'm not implying that Prince does this- What I'm saying is some of the characteristics that you thought defined him as an artist are actually foundations in which he constructs his music.
You just were not aware of it!!!! What is most important for any artist of any medium is how one uses the basic foundations to express themselves and that is what people measure in terms of what makes an artist(Prince) unique. So you have Sly Stone as the foundation for 1999, Forver In My Life, Controversy and that great original gem When Doves Cry these songs announced that this was an original voice.


I'm not sure it's completely fair, though, to scrutinize Prince by picking apart his mimicry ... this is certainly a case where the sum is greater than its parts ... and there are some songs that are in a realm of their own ...despite the well=worn borrowed elements.
[Edited 7/19/05 8:16am]
[/quote]


Mimicry. Imitiation. are strong words to describe Prince' music in any fashion and I don't think many people( fans or critics) would have chosen them But if you want to talk about Mimicry or Imitation let's talk about the whole neo soul movement in which Prince along with others are it's foundation. I bet right off the bat you could tell who they are listening to and what songs in particular they admire. But I won't digress. I do agree with you that the sum of Prince's music is greater than it parts all great artist share this and Yes some songs are in a realm of their own and only great artist are capable of this. Thank the Supreme Being for Prince![b]

SynthiaRose said:

If that line is the one, basic thing you're asking... I can't tell you off hand. Not at work, certainly. I'd have to trawl through my entire collection and get back to you. But would your appreciation of Prince rely solely on the fact that he has to be a 100% bona fide original? I'm sure that's not the case but show me one artist that hasn't been influenced in any single way, and I'll eat my hat. That's not the answer you're looking for, I know, but - realistically - it'll be far easier to name what he has been influenced by, than what he has created solely by himself. And for that answer, I'll leave it to other Orgers...

Very interesting topic, by the way.

Now that's just very sad and very scary!

I dont get what the big deal is, Prince, like most artists have been influenced by many other people and harnessed those influences to generate his own style and music.

doctamario said:

I don't know what Prince means by it, but he said that in an early 80s interview. I think they were asking prince about why on his back then new album 1999 has he stop singing in falsetto, on the upbeat songs and why he did it so much before.

thedog said:

ight then

SynthiaRose said:

how can you name yourself Synthia Rose and then turn around and call somebody unoriginal?

Meloh9 said:

Is that a joke? I'm on Prince.org. Of course I'm going to choose a Prince-related moniker that has personal meaning for me. It wasn't recommended to me by my manager either. Because I'm self-directed.

And note the spelling.

Geesh.

Synthia, hi.

4give me if this comes from out of leftfield but...
"Is there n e thing about Prince nowadays, or n recent times, which u dislike?"

love

"There is nothing new under the sun"
Ecclesiastes 1:9 i believe

Anji said:

Some might believe from my posts that I dislike a great deal. Perhaps you're being facetious and think that too.

But it's not.
I didn't care for Rainbow Children and News but I grew to love both Musicology and Rave.

That weren't great, though. And he does seem rather uninspired now.

So did that start me thinking? heck yeah ... I'm like 'where's the music gold of yesterday? Maybe he wasn't the magic then after all'

Not saying that's true... but ya gotta wonder now that people are gone and he's alone to create ... we're not seeing much.
[Edited 7/19/05 13:44pm]

SynthiaRose said:

Yaaaaawwwwwn.

1. There is nothing new under the sun.
2. If what Prince has done is not so fresh or "original" as you put it, how about you or anyone try copying him and see how far you get?


Some people just have nothing better to do but expose their ignorance to total strangers.

SynthiaRose said:

The magic lies not only with Prince, but with the space u were n when u were xperiencing it.

As a matter of fact, Prince created much of his music ALONE n the studio.
2 this day, he remains that lone wolf n the wilderness.

Ultimately, we r all only 'young' 1nce.
Perhaps, therein lies ur answer...

love

fiveorange said:

And some people don't know how to debate, so they just attack speakers with whom they disagree. That's called 'ad hominem' and is a very widespread reasoning fallacy.

SynthiaRose said:

Ad hominem - adjective: Appealing to personal considerations (rather than to fact or reason)

I'm sorry pot, what was that you said to the kettle?

SexyBeautifulOne said:

That doesn't apply to me. So, don't look for some histrionic defense from me. I don't involve myself in petty arguments and you should know that from your prior attempts at baiting.

By the way, below is a more appropriate debate definition:


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin, literally "argument [aimed] at the person", but usually translated as "argument to the man"), is a logical fallacy that involves replying to an argument by addressing the person presenting the argument as a basis for the argument being incorrect, as opposed to pointing out a flaw in the argument.
[Edited 7/19/05 14:51pm]

SynthiaRose said:

You're absolutely right that is a better definition, especially considering the over 80 replies to this thread that clearly point out the flaws in your arguments, that you choose to ignore. Thanks!
[Edited 7/19/05 15:08pm]

You're welcome.

Synthia?

love

TurnItUp said

SynthiaRose said:

I read a book that said your manager gave you that name.

hi

douself a favour..... listen 2 the dirty mind track....listen 2 the music, vocals..... listen 2 lovesexy track ..... and don´t forget 2 listen 2 when doves cry the song without the bass line,.,,,,,


PRINCE IS ORIGINAL.....

if u think that he´s a copycat.. then u are not true fan,,,,,

a true fan like PRINCE BECAUSE HE´S ORIGINAL,,,,,

AND U ARE NOT A 100% PRINCE FAN,,,,,

SHIT,, LISTEN 2 SOMETHING IN THE WATER """ TRUE PURE ORIGINAL.....!!!!!

Anji said:

Right back at U, Anji

Anji said:

I will ponder this wisdom.
There'll always be a trace of magic remaining for me I guess.
I mean I've listened to this guy since 1982 ...
I'll just have to readjust how I see him in my mind...

That's fine. I can handle that.

myloveis4ever said:

Now you should know I've listened to all that stuff a billion times in the last two decades.

I am a true fan, I'm just not a blind lemming.

But you know the long exchange on this thread has jolted me out of my initial horror and sadness over Prince's stealing tendencies.

He may not be an originator, as Joni herself would testify, but I'm so exhausted (and moved) by the various above arguments that I'm willing to let go of originality as a crucial need. Many have pointed out that Uniqueness can still exist without originality.

I'll go for that.

Yes, Something in the Water (Does NOt Compute) is kick ass and unique (I think ... hopefully I won't read it's a twin of some other cat's creation). That and songs like Anna Stesia certainly testify to a special unique quality about Prince.

I'm ready to give in and just accept that.

But He did steal a lot of shit .. I'm just sayin...


And on occasion his schtick has been too easily influenced by others ...right up to and including the graham years.

easily influenced edit..
[Edited 7/19/05 19:23pm]

SynthiaRose said:

Baby... that's called being smart enough to know who to listen to and who not, and knowing what works for you and what won't.

Most would call anyone who has reached the levels he has by doing just that... Genius. And ya know what... that is exactly what everyone including all those he 'stole' from call him.

QuakeXLE said:

Ha ha! Well said, I grudgingly admit.

SynthiaRose said:

thank you for being open enough to read the serious
non-attacking posts up here.

Thats all most of us were saying.

Prince is not perfect.
He has stolen plenty.
His influences are abundant.

But if there wasn't something unique and special about
the way he puts the pieces together
we all wouldn't be here on this site using
Prince related psudenyms, discussing him to no end.

Peace

Prince is more original that all of the rappers stealing these beats from old songs with hits on the Billboard pop tart charts today....

Anji said:

Great post! I am sure that the reason I love PR so much is because it reminds me of when I was 17 years old, and sneaking out of the house at night to meet my boyfriend half way for some hot fun. I hear LRC and WDC, and that reminds me of those times.