White Horse as a pattern for Erotic City. No I hear a Funkadelic tribute. White House is some fake Euro-funk.

Wow. What a disappointing debate.

I'm not going to respond to half of this.

First, I'm obviously a Prince fan. In my post I said I loved him, but I keep learning that things I associate with him didn't spring innately from him.


I've been accused of "stealing" others "concepts" in my list, when my list is a summary of observations. Of course the summary pulls from things on the board and books and interviews, etc. It's not conceived as original.


Next, a couple have pointed out the criticism about Wendy spurring his use of metaphor. Of course I know poetry has metaphor and art in general have metaphor. That's not the point. The point is that PRINCE started using it for HIS music at someone else's suggestion.

Just like with using his falsetto. Someone mentioned other soul singers use falsettos. Again, that's not the point. I'd rather read that Prince decided this would be his signature voice instead of reading that a manager suggested it to him.

Same thing with the other complaints. HE incorporated things into his already ongoing schtick after others suggested it. I don't know why it's so difficult for people to comprehend.

The theory that no one can be original is faulty. People think original thoughts everyday ... meaning they think, analyze, create, and synthesize without regard to what's gone before. Even if their creation parallels something already made ... it's original because they, using their minds alone, conceived it. They didn't look and imitate. What has gone before should be inspiration and stimuli not whole building blocks of an artist's design.

Anyway, instead of looking at the issue and dissecting it .. for some reason people want to act like I'm the opponent, when I'm clearly a fan who feels bamboozled.

You all can be delusional if you want, but if you've believed something to be genius and actually find it's a patchquilt of other things and that said person couldn't come up with his own schtick on his own ... it's a big let down.

Yes..I wouldnt have had more of an appreciation for George Clinton, James Brown, Jimi, jazz music, or even any slow jam if it wasnt for Prince.

SynthiaRose said:

Ahhh, you're disappointed, that's a shame. NOT! You're entitled to your opinions and so are we, the facts that they differ are just par for the course around here, hun. Deal with it!

If you are as truly disappointed and let down as you are trying to convince us you are because of stuff you've read around here and in some books. That only show's that you are the one that's "easily led and a follower".

If it's about the music, what difference does it make how it came about?

If you feel so "bamboozled" because you found out Prince is a human entertainer, and not the mythical, mystical, demigod, you've built up in your mind, then perhaps it's time for you to move on. There comes a time in a person's life when things that once held high relevance, just no longer does it. It happens!

If you've got any "good" Prince stuff, on your way out, post a list, I'm sure some "delusional" person around here will be glad to take it off your hands.

Buh-bye!

Don't confuse "genius" and "originality". One does not have to be original to be a genius; one can improve upon an established genre or idea.

For clarification on the "genius" thing, find out what other musicians say about Prince. I think you'll find that almost universally, across the whole pop-rock-funk spectrum, he is considered a "genius".

I certainly consider him one.

"He's not the first singer to use "purple rain" as a lyric. "

Do you really think Prince was listening to "America"? The Purple things seems to go back to his dad.

SynthiaRose said:

Erotic City mimics White Horse?

You just don't know when to quit, do you?

SexyBeautifulOne said:

Did Synthia strike a nerve with you? Your response seems a bit harsh.

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Yeah, I acknowledged in an above post that it was "Erotic City" not Bitch, as I mistated, that mimicked White Horse. EC came after White Horse I believe, although it seems they both were on radio at the same period.[/quote]

he new how to blend everything and make it into his own. i admire what he did in the 80s.

well original or not P is and always will be the most talented singer, songwriter, and musician known to man in my opinion.
[Edited 7/18/05 15:06pm]
[Edited 7/18/05 15:06pm]

It's Erotic city that sounds like white horse, not irristible bitch.

laurarichardson said:

mmmmm, perhaps. but the thing with dm is that he didn't do that album for the money.

Rose I'm wondering when some of these dimwits are going to refer to you as a "hater" for just starting an interesting thread.

I am also wondering if some of these authors that maintain everybody borrows for everybody crap (and that may be so), are the same ones that say rap is crap and use sampling as one of their reasons for saying so.


Stay strong Rose.
[Edited 7/18/05 15:41pm]
[Edited 7/18/05 20:41pm]

: Stop taking everything Prince ever wrote, did or said so seriously. He was a young guy trying to sell records. He used his Uptown manifesto as a marketing tool. Why some people are still taking it seriously 20 plus years later is beyond me.

He comes from a long line of blues artists including Ray Charles and of course James Brown and has adopted many blues elements in his music as well as added new ones (i.e. the drum machine) It is critical that SynthiaRose listens widely and read less Prince related material to understand what "original" actually means in music lexicon.

Hmm this is an interesting topic and I'm sorry I've join late but I think SynthiaRose might have misinterpreted the word "original" when it comes to Prince. He comes from a long line of blues artists including Ray Charles and of course James Brown and has adopted many blues elements in his music as well as added new ones (i.e. the drum machine) It is critical that SynthiaRose listens widely and read less Prince related material to understand what "original" actually means in music lexicon. For example, James Brown's Papa got a brand new bag considered to be the antecendent of the song, Kiss, contains elements of Miles Davis's So What from the Kind of Blue album. Would this be considered un original of JB? Some of Hendrix's songs from Electric Ladyland have musical elements "lifted" from Hopi Indian tribe. Great talent or a fraud?
Calling Prince "unoriginal" is (no jab at SynthiaRose personally)naive without having to shout out the Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Traffic, Cream, Led Zepplin who all decidedly used every blues riff ever created by blues musicians from the 20's thru 50's. Check the records!

If you really want to see how unoriginal artist can be then look into america's favorite filmmaker, Steven Spielberg but that's another forum

dekabes said:

You could be right.

I did grow up listening to Prince in a vacuum as opposed to on a blues-soul continuum that could have offered a wider berth for comparison.

I initially thought of him as a rare creature out of whose eccentric head all kinds of idiosyncratic things were springing ...

... don't know if I would say that now. I'm not sure the things that most define him have neatly sprung from him alone.

But don't get me wrong, I didn't think his music was from scratch. I understand that all artists expand on what comes before. So I'm not totally naive.


I'm not up in arms about generic imitation. But there are things that seem definitively Prince that are not unique to him at all. I'm not sure any of the main characteristics that define him are unique. And that's a bit amazing considering his god status.



I'm not sure it's completely fair, though, to scrutinize Prince by picking apart his mimicry ... this is certainly a case where the sum is greater than its parts ... and there are some songs that are in a realm of their own ...despite the well=worn borrowed elements.
[Edited 7/19/05 8:16am]

SynthiaRose said:

I would simply recommend you going back and researching a few legendary musicians. Prince is no different from any of them and believe me, none of them exhisted in a vaccum, no one does. Just broaden your palate and learn the history and you can understand all of them and music better.
[Edited 7/19/05 8:52am]

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

I listen to classical, rock, and pop. I've long loved jazz singers (Ella, Billie, Louie) for years and am just starting to get into jazz musicians... I just bought some parker, davis, and a 2-disc historical review.

It's just that i've never been a fan of funk or the james, sly, etc. sound that seemed to influence Prince.

Maybe I shouldn't post on this thread as it's obviously going to be showing up on 'My Org' for the next 5 weeks but...

as simple and as obvious as this sounds, I'm surprised that anyone would think less of Prince - or any other artist - by 'discovering' their actual influences. We are ALL - yes, you & I - products of our environment. We soak up 'influences' (consciously or unconsciously) and translate them into something we call our own every single day. Maybe you and I do it on a personal level; we just get to see Prince's on a musical level. And the fact he can do it, give reference to those influences and still churn out something undeniably 'Prince' - that's talent.

So, no big news to me.

onenitealone said:

I don't question that basic level of creation.
Again, does Prince have any thing definitive that he didn't take from someone else?

If not, then don't just shrug it off and give him a pass..

But I"m not going to keep forcing this....
It's as doomed as the argument about how very derivative Christianity is ...


Anyway, DorothyParker... I do listen to quite a bit of Little Richard and Stevie ... I'll check out the other ones you named.


The effect could be that Prince becomes run of the mill after that.

Anyway, goin' to work now...