I actually posted this as a reply to the chronic on another thread but saw that it may be a dead thread, so I just wanted him to read my response to his pathetic views on music and america...

I would just like to say that I have many american friends and dont want to offend you all, just want this fuck-wit to get a life...

Its like this, thechronic (or whatever your naive, dumb-fuck name is) is trying to create a debate. Unfortunately he is using a music forum to try and shout about how fucking wonderful his country is and how piss poor the rest of the world is. He could quite easily have used a dietry forum and asked why countries such as the UK, Australia etc etc were not as obese as those fantastically huge Americans are, claiming McDonalds to be the greatest global foodchain there is! UK ppl would have lambasted him with Burger King!

I have nothing against any nationality, but when it comes to the "my place is better than yours" argument, then a trip back to school is needed. ESPECIALLY when trying to use a forum that actually predates the good ol US of A. That being music.

Music belongs to the human race. It is our creation as a species, not as a nation. All the way back to clapping our hands in rythmn whilst sat in our caves around the fire. And right up to this day we are still making music to please our ears.

If the truth be known, America has commercialised it to such an extent that the pleasure has been taken over by the corporate buck. Africa, South America and Asia still make the music for the purpose of pleasure and not for cash. Europe, Australia and the US have turned it into a well oiled machine. However we in Europe, because of cultural diversity (which includes different languages) have not gone so far yet. Having said that, the English speaking world is slowly going down the road of America.

An artist would never want to compromise his art by selling out, but if he wants the bucks, he must. Hense the desire for non-Americans to crack the states, because thats where the wonga is. Unfortunately, to crack the states it must be commercially viable, and hense production line crap!

I saw the likes of J-Lo, Britney, N'Synch quoted as current greats. Christ, what a joke! They are current big-sellers. The art, if there even is any has been wholy compromised to make a buck.

In the UK we have the same shit going on. Yes, we had the Spice Girls, Steps, Boyzone, Take That. We even have Pop Idol - An example of the state of the music industry championed by the good ol US of A.

So most of the artists that have global success of today are American. But thats because the corporate bigwigs have the capital to push them globally. That is not a statement of greatness in terms of music, it is a statement of corporate globalisation of business.

So before any of your pathetic ideas thechronic can be taken seriously, I suggest you go back to school and demand a refund on your so called degree. Because a degree in music means you should know all about the business of music too. And therefore you would know why corporate america has so many big selling artists.

As for the actual art of music and great music makers, then bounderies or borders are not the point. A genius can be born to any family in any country at any point in time. Because a genius is a human condition, not a fucking territorial one! It just so happensd that they are more likely to shine in a country that has the bucks to promote them. And then they will be lucky if they dont have to compromise their art to get it out there anyway.

Personally, if you ask me about non-american greats, I can guarantee there are more outside America then there are within it based purely on the premise of world population, not how much cash you happen to have to showcase them!

the chronic is a lying dumb fuck! Degree my arse! Just a lonely, sad bastard with his head stuck up his own ass!

One last thing. I read a statistic somewhere once which explained why a lot of Americans are unaware of the world at large putting them in a self-described centre of the universe. It is this:

98% of American television is American!

I guess the same can be said about music.

Thats a sad state to be in and it can make you quite oblivious and naive to the rest of the planet earth. I recomend a trip to the library every now and then.

My name is Dave, I live in a cave, but think of all the money I save!

Amen I totally agree, I couldn't have said it better myself, I think you're right Jon.. 5 STARS!

RE chronic's thots, america and GB have been influencing each other musically for centuries...

* star-spangled banner is based on an old english drinking song.

* scottish and irish folk ballads had a strong influence on country music

* the english enslaved africans, who then brot their musical influence to the US

* african-americans inspired gospel, ragtime, jazz, blues... which in turn, mixed w/ country, inspired rock & roll...

* groups like the beatles started their careers covering black rock & roll artists, like little richard... the stones were inspired by black blues artists

* a certain englishman remarked a marginal rock movement in NYC, brot it back to the UK and made it his own (w/ the help of characters like sid vicious, johnny rotten & co)...

* a group of punk artists from washington, USA, inspired by the beatles' simple pop stylings, comes out w/ a fabulous album called "nevermind"

just a few examples...

apollonia7 said:

Uhm.. you're probably right, but MOST Americans think they're the best! I know I shouldn't say EVERYBODY thinks that, but many american do believe everything is abotu them! NO OFFENCE!!
[This message was edited Wed May 22 8:13:44 PDT 2002 by Sandra]

fact is that at least on the matter of music the debate of america being best is controversial. the only musical art forms coming out of america are gospel, blues, jazz, country, rock n roll, soul, funk, house and hip hop.
let me get down on them for a second.
1.gospel. follow-up on the working songs the slaves came up with. for some still not truly identified reasons the slaves accepted the religious belief of their masters, but worshipped with a different chant. complex subject, I recommend reading "blues people" by leroi jones (later amiri biraka), the best book on this issue.
2.blues. again, a slave and former-slave cry.
3.jazz. after the civil war, most instruments of the army marching bands had no use for white people. black folks picked them up for little money and created jazz (again, a very complex issue that derseves its own debate).
4.country. black country music mixed with very few irish influences. the typical instrument is the banjo which is african. country is black as well.
5.rock n roll. another african-american art form. little richard played it before elvis. its truly black.
6.soul. mixture of blues and gospel. took the gospel out of the church. blues is: "I'm down and out". soul: "I'm down and out but I am still one cool motherfucker."
7. funk. took the soul to the dancefloors.
8.house. contemporary black music from chicago, based on dico which is based on funk.
9. hip hop. source is african american. no discussion needed.
what I am trying to say with the content of this list: all american musical art forms go back to the pain and suffering of the slaves. I am glad the music is there. but the way it was achieved is not a way any american or human can be proud of. its like saying: I am thankful that there was the holocaust. it gave us israel.

soulpower said:

how much country to do you listen to?

bluegrass, for example, is very akin to irish & scottish folk music...

how about murder ballads?

apollonia, my post summed up a very complex issue. I know there's tons of variations and different influences. I wanted to write a post, not a book. so forgive me if I jumped over some details.

soulpower said:

just off hand, i think you forgot cajun & zydeco...

Which America are you talking about? South America, Central America or North America? I think South America is better than the other two...

Garganta means "throat" in Spanish, doesn't it?

yes, garganta means throat in spanish. what an stupid username I have...

point is americans are competitive,we kick yall ass in the olympics,politics,economics,and especially music....shame on you unpatriotic american suck asses agreeing with this lunatic to think another country is better than us.

america rules this fucking earth..we are the big dogs around this motherfucker...when we say jump,yall other motherfuckers say "how high"
yall beg for our,cars,our musicians(prince---,when prince coming over here?,when prince coming over here?)

and I warned you about calling me names...bring your ass to the celebration and i will stick this american flag up your ass with no grease.

Then i would tell prince to play the star spangled banner hendrix style while i'm kicking your ass all the way across the ocean!

Four words:

The National Football League.