Ok, so having just listened to ATWIAD for the first time in a while (quite a trip, I'd forgotten how diverse the sounds on this album are (whilst it also screams to be remastered, but that's another conversation)) the song that really got me thinking was America.

See, I'm having problems resolving what Prince is trying to say here and wanted to know what other orgers opinions are about the lyrics. Obviously I am clear on the main message, peace and freedom, but confusion reigns from the very first verse;

Aristocrats on a mountain climb
Making money, losing time
Communism is just a word
But if the government turn over
It'll be the only word that's heard


Here, Prince appears to be attacking both capitalism and communism. two very opposite political ideals. The capitalists may be earning, but they're "losing time" - the pursuit of money having little spritual and moral value. However, Prince seems to be warning that if the government is not careful, the country will slip in to communism. So, possibly he is saying that neither system works.

America, America
God shed his grace on thee
America, America
Keep the children free


This appears to serve as a "mantra" for divine inspiration or blessing to help America "keep the children free" - but, is this remain to be free, or does it imply that there isn't freedom at the time of writing? Perhaps the next verse will help?

Little sister making minimum wage
Living in a 1-room jungle-monkey cage
Can't get over, she's almost dead
She may not be in the black
But she's happy she ain't in the red


Well, perhaps the people aren't free after all. A damning indictment of apparently rich, capitalist countries is that poverty is still rife. Here we have an example of a woman barely getting by ("she's almost dead"), living in poor conditions, yet (and what a twist this is) "She may not be in the black, But she's happy she ain't in the red". Given the anti-communist sentiment expressed in the first verse, this is a canny play on words with banking terminology with a double meaning - Prince is saying, although she is in poverty, she's at least happy that the country is not communist - i.e. "in the red". Again, it seems to support the theory that Prince does not believe in either system.

Jimmy Nothing never went 2 school
They made him pledge allegiance
He said it wasn't cool
Nothing made Jimmy proud
Now Jimmy lives on a mushroom cloud

Is Prince promoting both education and patriotism here and, if so, does he think that these are the answers? The man's name here implies that he never made anything of himself due to lack of education. He was forced to pledge allegiance and did not like this (but then, nobody should be forced in to loyalty to something they do not believe in). It would seem that no education, no pride in anything, not even his country, leads to Jimmy's doom. The inference here seems to me that if people don't care about their country or take an interest in politics, then we could be heading to nuclear armageddon anyway. This is suffixed by the very last spoken line of "Teacher, why won't Jimmy pledge alleagiance?".

I think this is an interesting song, but its message does not seem entirely clear, so I'm interested to hear other people's views on what this song means to them. (BTW, I haven't heard the extended version, so I don't know if there are any extra lyrics of note on it).

Freedom, Love, Joy, Peace

Ah good old 'America'.....back when Prince was the king of freedom....love....and ambiguity in his lyrics!!

Edit - I had posted about how I thought this was "straight up patriotic," but after re-thinking it on the drive in to work, now am questioning that position.

damn you Prince!
[Edited 6/10/05 7:13am]

Great thread!

My take on it has always been anti-capitalist but I agree that by being anti-capitalist that doesn't make him pro-communist by default.

I think Prince's belief is that all systems of government place too much emphasis on human leaders (who will inevitably be corrupt) rather than on God or Love. Later tracks like Still Would Stand All Time ("no one man will be ruler therefore love must rule us all") and Democrazy ("only God is surpreme") also push this message.

However in America, he never gives us a solution to the problem. He's only telling it from his/America's point of view. The Government keeps telling everyone that they should be happy they are not communist (and they know this is good) however they also know deep within themselves that there is something wrong in the current American system as well.

For me, the song is spelling out this paradox. If you can't trust "them" (communists) and you can't trust "us" (capitalists), then who you gonna trust?? ...God/Love???

toejam said:

That was great. I think it cleard up my confusion w/ the song.



btw

Howz Earl?

Mindflux said:

omg...the site killed my reply.

bastages!

Anywho, the idea is that Jimmy Nothing decided to opt out of the status quo. The idea that a person could challenge the status quo spreads to another student, and hopefully to more.

The mushroom cloud could represent the idea that he's starting a revolution, or that he has been "removed" by the government.

More specifically when he says " Now Jimmy lives on a mushroom cloud ", is he stating that Jimmy is now a drug addict and doing shrooms... or is he saying because of Jimmy's apathy (Jimmy representing many Americans) that nuclear war has come about and Americans (a.k.a. Jimmy) are sitting on an atomic bomb (mushroom cloud)???

Tim Kaye
www.timkaye.com
www.cdbaby.com/timkaye2
www.myspace.com/timkaye

Hmmmm, I always saw this song differently. Due to the Cold War era, I always believed that the song was acknowledging that yea, America has it's problems, big ones but better here than there, so wake up and show it some love. To put it very simply. Perhaps it does have different meanings. Would be interesting to know.

Okay, here's my take...

Aristocrats on a mountain climb
Making money, losing time
Communism is just a word
But if the government turn over
It'll be the only word that's heard


Communism is led by the elite... and in our monopolistic-monarchy (Clear Channel anybody?), we ain't far from it here in America (land of the free?). Now in the year 2005, the government has practically been turned over to those in "real" power -- just watch where the money goes.

America, America
God shed his grace on thee
America, America
Keep the children free


This is Prince's plea -- keep America the way it was born to be... free! Free from the aristocrats, free from communism.

Little sister making minimum wage
Living in a 1-room jungle-monkey cage
Can't get over, she's almost dead
She may not be in the black
But she's happy she ain't in the red


We're all working hard trying to achieve the American dream -- it's even killing us, thanks to the abuse of the corporate and political elite, but hey, it'd be worse in a communistic nation (he plays on the word "red" -- poverty, communism).

Jimmy Nothing never went 2 school
They made him pledge allegiance
He said it wasn't cool
Nothing made Jimmy proud
Now Jimmy lives on a mushroom cloud

Those who don't care about America... where they at now? Nothing to be thankful for, nothing worth fighting for? Jimmy, for example, is lost in a psychedelic haze -- nothing else matters to him. Shame! And because of this, Prince pleads...

America, America
God shed his grace on thee
America, America
Keep the children free


"Whoever said that elephants (Republicans) were stronger than mules (Democrats)?" (Paisley Park, from the same album).
[Edited 6/10/05 12:19pm]

toejam said:

Great explanation.

Also you could say this theory is backed up by the "Boom!..... The Bible" chant.

He's laid out his case that both Capitalists and Communists can't be trusted, and this is his solution - The Bible.

MetroArea said:

The Bible chant? I thought he was saying, "The bomb goes... Boom!" in reference to Jimmy not doing anything for America (to keep it free) and now he's a victim of a nuclear attack on America... "now Jimmy lives on a mushroom cloud." I really don't see how the song is against capitalism. Capitalism is the reason why this nation has become a super-power -- everyone has the opportunity to fulfill their dreams (and yes, some have more open doorways than others). Though Prince does speak against the aristocrats in this song. With money comes power, and the aristocrats abuse that power more than anyone else while the rest of us are working our butts off just trying to stay alive and finally make it up that Ladder.

Thanks for all your comments everyone - interesting stuff Seems we're all more or less getting the same thing. I agree, Prince is against both systems, particularly communism (he really seems to have been genuinely scared sold on the communist propoganda during the "Cold War", its not the only anti-russian song he's put out), but he is certainly saying that capitalism doesn't work either.

Snap said

Hmmm, you sure about that? And what you really mean is that being a wealthy country has bought you a bigger army and better weaponary than anyone else - "super-power" is cosy, empowering, but misleading language. And a competitive, profit-driven, capitalist market cannot possibly offer equal opportunity for all and the lie of eveyone being able to fulfil their dreams is what is constantly peddled to ensure that,as you said, "the rest of us are working our butts off just trying to stay alive". We've had plenty of time for capitalism to "work", yet we still see the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

However, on a more positive note, the G8 must be congratulated today for taking that all important first step in relieving third-wolrd debt.

Just goes to show that people will read into things what they want to.


side note: i've opened my own business with no money out of my own pocket -- just a business plan and a business grant. we don't all have to be millionaires to think this country is great. some of us can be happy with a roof over our family's heads and some food in the cupboards -- it's much harder to acheive this type of happiness in most other parts of this world. you think the corporate elite are bad? just wait until the national socialist party comes to your town. ain't nothing worse than putting ALL the power in the hands of a few just so we can feel safe and happy that no one can possibly do any better than us and we can all love the misery of our company, eh.

our real enemy in America is NOT capitalism but fascism -- the merging of the government with the corporate elite. "Fasicism is capitalism in decline" (Lenin, Russian dictator). "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism as it is a merge of state and corporate power" (Mussolini, Italian dictator). It worked for Hitler, and it's working for Bush. It will also work for Warner (governor of Virginia) or Clinton (senator from New York) and most definitely Schwarzenegger (governor of California) if ANY one of them becomes president! it is very important that we KNOW our enemy before we decide to throw punches.

peace
[Edited 6/11/05 18:09pm]

Snap said:

I just had a look at a few lyrics sites, and it looks like I was wrong. LOL! I think I just always thought he said 'the bible', and never bothered to check before.

Snap said:

I don't think so, I just read what you wrote. I hear what you are saying and I was simply pointing out that America's rise to "super-power" was not necessarily based on capitalism alone

Snap said

and that the term "super-power" itself is fairly meaningless, other than in the context of military-might.

I'm glad you have capitalised on the opportunities presented to you, but this does not represent equal opportunity for everyone. The capitalist system still leaves the power in the hands of the few, just like the very system you fear - just like 90% of the global wealth is controlled by and spread amongst just 5% of the global population.

Unfortunately, as a by-product of the society we are brought up in, few people see any sort of alternative and are therefore left defending a system that doesn't work, simply because "at least its not that other one"!

Namaste
[Edited 6/13/05 12:07pm]

namaste...

i just don't know what the alternative would be so that everyone has a fair shot? communism, marxism, socialism? no thank u. democracy? hmm...

thank you

Yeah, I know (or rather, I don't!) - what could be the alternative?

Well, I'm not claiming to hold the solution to the world's problems - the problem seems to stem from the fact that the earth is made up of billions of individuals and the only way forward would be to unite as a global community. But how could that be acheived? And surely the option (in a truly free society) would remain for people to opt out of the, shall we say, New Order?

It also depends on what the objective is. For example, you say, "I just don't know what the alternative would be so that everyone has a fair shot?" - but a fair shot at what? If its the accumulation of wealth, as is the status quo, then nothing will change. No, the objective has to be far more communal than that.

I think that the first step to harmonising the globe would be to unite under one calendar system. We could all revert to the far more appropriate (not to mention ACCURATE!) 13-moon calendars of our ancestors, which reflect natural time (thereby harmonising us with nature too, which we have so successfully pulled away from and now, it seems, want to destroy). As opposed to our current, politically and egoist motivated Gregorian calendar (which not only invents an un-natural mechanical time, it can't even get the names of the month's right! i.e. December is the 12th month, when its name means the tenth!). Mahatmha Ghandi was in favour of this, as he was a global currency and global language. And before some here snigger at the suggestion of a global, natural-time based calendar, it was suggested and almost approved by the League of Nations (which pre-dated the current United Nations) way back in 1933. Of course, it was opposed and eventually put down by the Vatican, obviously fearing the fact that they would relinquish their stronghold on many societies with the eradication of its calendar.

Another step (and I'll go further than Ghandi here on his "global currency" theory) may be to abolish economical systems altogether - ie do away with money entirely! Radical? Certainly, and what would anyone's motivation be to do anything? With our present state of minds, it would be difficult to convince many people that this is a viable alternative and one that everyone could readily contribute to. And think of the possibilities of what the abolition of money would solve - no more poverty or hunger, no restrictions on research for things like cancer (the main obstacle that hampers our progress to finding solutions is funding) - the benefits would be amazing.

But, both of these propositions would be so outrageous to most people, that they wouldn't even enter in to a debate on them. So, thinking as we do, in our loyal, patriotic, isolated way, rather than as EQUAL HUMAN BEINGS that are part of a GLOBAL COMMUNITY, it is little wonder that the alternatives are so muted and so, apparently, far out-of-reach.

Speaking of singles and videos, your latest is "America." This is one of the most political songs you've ever done. Could you tell us what the song is supposed to say to people? For example, is it straightforwardly patriotic or more complicated than that?

Prince: Straightforwardly patriotic.


http://princetext.tripod....mtv85.html

Mindflux said:

Mindflux I love you. This post is so right on, I want to cheer. Most people simply do not think beyond their physical "selves" (I'm not referring to you Snap, just folks in general) and I loved reading your thoughts on our evolution. The pendulum is due to swing back, and there are many others out there who feel the same. The western way is winding down, and it's about damn time.

This was a great thread anyway - I had always thought this song was just pro-usa, anti-communism (and hated it for it), but now, I'm not so sure. Like most others, I still think that sentiment is there, but he's also taking a few shots at the "good ol'" usa, which is good to see. It is a shame though that the philosophies of the left have become so bastardized by capitalist propoganda that even great artists are duped.
[Edited 6/14/05 15:31pm]

namaste








Today's Maya Date:
12 . 19 . 12 . 6 . 15
2 Men
13 Zotz
2745 days until 13.0.0.0.0 - so,yes, not long to go!
[Edited 6/16/05 15:06pm]