blackguitaristz said:

I've always thought that Rick was a talent equal to Prince but that he lacked the discipline to be as consistent and successful. His roots were undoubtedly blacker in terms of funk. He was versatile, great producer, writer, soul opera singer, dynamic charisma. His music was consistently strong up until post Street Songs. He lost something with the success of superfreak. In my opinion he could outfunk prince on any level, he had that urban toughness that Prince totally lacked that gave him authority and authenticity. I don't know about his not appealing to whites, I distinctly remember his appealing to the disco audience, and also his calling his music punk funk. He was by many accounts a deeply troubled man, not very nice to people and such, his thing with Prince was just jealousy, I doubt if Prince took it anywhere near as seriously. All in all, I think Rick should have accomplished much more, a few more albums like Streetsongs would have made just about anyone else in his era look like they were faking the funk. Two very talented men, in my opinion, the cream of the crop, over anyone in their time.

mozfonky said:

Nicely said. P played Give It To Me Baby on his last tour when Rick died. I thought it was a nice touch. It showed respect to a man that Prince himself had learned a few things from. At the end of the day, they respected each other's craft. Listen, someone like Rick more than knew where Prince was coming from musically. And there is no way in the world P was bumping the "StreetSongs" album when it dropped. You think Rick didn't go PAY to see the movie "Purple Rain"? Of course he did. There was an admiration there on BOTH sides. They both knew how hard it was and is to be a black man, playing their brand of music and to achieve ANY kind of success.

blackguitaristz said:

Very Well Said BG Baby!

laurarichardson said

I also don't understand why Rick gets a pass when you can see pictures of him wearing hooker books and glitter.

Those boots weren't known as hooker boots until Julia Roberts did the movie "Pretty Woman". Just like a lot of people thinking Michael Jackson was the first to do The Moonwalk, a lot of people thought Julia was the first to wear those boots and started classifying them as women's boots.

Those boots have been around for ages and Rick wasn't the only one to wear them. Back then, they were simply known as thigh high boots and it was mostly males that I saw wearing them. Lakeside wore them on the "Fantastic Voyage" album. Rafael Cameron also wore them. I think I also remember seeing a few members of Cameo wearing those boots a time or two. Bootsy Collins and George Clinton also used to wear them but their's were more like stacks. The Audience even posted a picture once, of a black rock group from the early 1970s wearing them.

As far as the glitter, KISS wore it also.

Rick never got a pass. He caught the same mess that Prince and many of the others did from the glam era. He even mentions it in one of his songs "Below The Funk (Pass The J)"....."The gossip is so tragic, they call me a faggott, and me and all my women laugh at it". Any male star that has ever been worth a damn has had people to speculate about something or other.

Those boots weren't known as hooker boots until Julia Roberts did the movie "Pretty Woman". Just like a lot of people thinking Michael Jackson was the first to do The Moonwalk, a lot of people thought Julia was the first to wear those boots and started classifying them as women's boots.

Those boots have been around for ages and Rick wasn't the only one to wear them. Back then, they were simply known as thigh high boots and it was mostly males that I saw wearing them. Lakeside wore them on the "Fantastic Voyage" album. Rafael Cameron also wore them. I think I also remember seeing a few members of Cameo wearing those boots a time or two. Bootsy Collins and George Clinton also used to wear them but their's were more like stacks. The Audience even posted a picture once, of a black rock group from the early 1970s wearing them.

As far as the glitter, KISS wore it also.

Rick never got a pass. He caught the same mess that Prince and many of the others did from the glam era. He even mentions it in one of his songs "Below The Funk (Pass The J)"....."The gossip is so tragic, they call me a faggott, and me and all my women laugh at it". Any male star that has ever been worth a damn has had people to speculate about something or other.

vainandy said:

vain, telling it like it is! Dead on it.

Those boots weren't known as hooker boots until Julia Roberts did the movie "Pretty Woman". Just like a lot of people thinking Michael Jackson was the first to do The Moonwalk, a lot of people thought Julia was the first to wear those boots and started classifying them as women's boots.

Those boots have been around for ages and Rick wasn't the only one to wear them. Back then, they were simply known as thigh high boots and it was mostly males that I saw wearing them. Lakeside wore them on the "Fantastic Voyage" album. Rafael Cameron also wore them. I think I also remember seeing a few members of Cameo wearing those boots a time or two. Bootsy Collins and George Clinton also used to wear them but their's were more like stacks. The Audience even posted a picture once, of a black rock group from the early 1970s wearing them.

As far as the glitter, KISS wore it also.

Rick never got a pass. He caught the same mess that Prince and many of the others did from the glam era. He even mentions it in one of his songs "Below The Funk (Pass The J)"....."The gossip is so tragic, they call me a faggott, and me and all my women laugh at it". Any male star that has ever been worth a damn has had people to speculate about something or other.

prodigalfan said:

VainAndy, you are right again. I feel like we grew up living down the street from each other.... you remember so many things I do. Like MJ and that "moonwalk". I don't know about the rest of y'all but MJ didn't do that until 1984 or later, I can remember dance troops from the hood doing pop locking routines and they called it ...wasn't it called the "slide"? And then Shabba Doo came out with that movie... can't remember what it was called, but it came out when Chaka Khan "Ain't nobody love you better" was the hit because it was in the movie and they called the slide I think the electric boogaloo. Then MJ does it and all of the sudden, MJ is credited with "creating" a dance step that had been perfected and discarded nearly a decade earlier.

Interesting and informative thread guys , though I do get the impression that some of you major Rick James fans want to make out that every bit of success Prince got up to and including Purple Rain was due to Rick James , ie his rivalry made Prince make better music , he only got videos played on MTV so they could piss off Rick James (please , like his songs didnt deserve airplay on thier own merit ), oh and Prince only got the idea for making a movie cos Rick James had the idea first (before Elvis and The Beatles too?). A fun thread though , and Rick James music was pretty good from the one greatest hits album
I've heard .In all honesty though ,I'd only heard one of the songs beforehand , maybe his success didnt carry over into the Uk / Europe and he was just a big US star ?

moonshine said:

I totally agree with you W/B firmly believed in prince (early on) and would push the kid to the moon to get him out there. Any and every music outlet would have prince in the mix if Warner felt it necessary.

vainandy said:

U killing em', vain!

I've heard many people say that Jeffrey Daniels from Shalamar invented it. Remember their jam, "Pop Along Kid"?
[Edited 6/1/05 21:14pm]

vainandy said:

I had not heard this, but it would definitely make sense to me... since he was a dancer who learned to sing instead of MJ who was a singer that learned to dance.

dealodelandron said:

How does one steal someone from someone? Vanity was noone's property...I never heard Prince tying her up and dragging her from Rick....

blackguitaristz said:

Ditto....Another thing that must be noted is that Rick resented (and rightly so) how Prince, the light skinned, rock playing, crossover negro received major play on MTV while the more hardcore R&B cat Rick James was barred from the station. There was a huge outcry at one point in '82 in which black artists complained nationally that they were being descriminated by MTV. So along comes Prince, a guy that was just opening up for Rick just two years earlier, getting major airplay with Little Red Corvette as well as the non threatening MJ...That's why he disliked Prince...It wasn't simple jealousy...But in recent years, Rick James has come to respect our boy P...He was even quoted as saying that Prince truely represented the FUNK....But by simply saying it's jealously is doing a disservice to Rick's legacy....
[Edited 5/25/05 18:48pm]

Prince stole Vanity away which is well, top shelf p***y.(No disrespect to the ladies.)

Rick was really probably bitter about that especially since it was public. E, W and F and George Clinton were doing spin-off groups/outside production first. (Brides, Emotions, Pockets, etc.)

IMHO I think Prince got a lot of ideas from Earth Wind And Fire while they were both managed by Cavallo and Co.

The Senheiser mics, Fender Jazz Bass. Mesa Boogie amps, The Paisley Park label/studio. Maurice had all this going in 1979 with the ARC label and The Complex.(Feel free to correct the names. I don't feel like looking them up) You can see that in the Earh Wind And Fire In Concert 1982 HBO DVD.

Back to Rick. He didn't win.

Prince knew that sex sells and he used that to capture people's imagination but he had the music and the work ethic to back it up.

And every year like clockwork he "did the work." He may have had problems like everyone but he didn't disappear like Sly or go the Elvis route.

At he still looks great and is capable of giving the world good music.

Rick after knowing he had health problems went and did all that drug stuff and he lost his life. Rick didn't give himself the chance to come back and show people. "Despite what I've been though here is my talent and my music."

To the average person who doesn't know Rick's career three things will come to mind:

"He was in jail, wasn't he?"
"Can't touch this."
"I'm Rick James, Bitch!"

I'm sure he wanted a better legacy than that.
[Edited 5/25/05 23:46pm]

murph said:

Well Rick James also sang blatantly about pot and stuff. Maybe MTV didn't want that back in the early days...

after watching the interview...a few things i noticed:

1. for RJ to be talking about how Prince looked..he sure had a whole lot of lip gloss in this interview

2. the interview was edited in such a way to make RJ look like an incoherant coke-head in the famous skit...for instance, when talking about putting his boots on eddie murphy's couch, in the skit, they edit before and after he admits doing it on purpose..

That was definately my favorite era in music during the old Prince/Rick James feuding days. Rick would publicly badmouth Prince. Prince wouldn't speak or answer Rick's comments, he was more sneaky than that. He would go after people in Rick's camp like Vanity and Jill Jones. Then Rick would become more pissed and badmouth Prince some more. Then the albums started coming. Each year, both artists got better and better. The protegees' albums from both artists were also sizzling hot during that time.

Rick would always make the mistake of bragging on what he was going to do before he did it. Then, Prince would take the idea and do it before Rick would. Rick had also said on "Soul Train" about making a movie called "Alice In Ghettoland" years before Prince made "Purple Rain". I remember when "Purple Rain" came out, Rick did an interview with "Right On" magazine and really talked about the movie bad. He even reminded people that he had been talking about making a movie for years. Rick would have done much better if he had a record company like Warner Brothers that was promoting and supporting Prince. That's probably why he went to Warner Brothers when he left Motown. Motown was too busy trying to cheat it's artists. They really did a number on Teena Marie to the point that she sued them and there was a law made in her name.

Prince won't admit it, but he enjoyed that rivalry and loved to keep it going just like Rick. Prince even had a rivalry going within his own camp, with The Time. Hell, the movie "Purple Rain" was even about two rival bands. When Prince started slipping was when he didn't have anyone to compete with anymore. Those were truly some fun times. Today's artists couldn't have a good healthy rivalry like that because their rivalries always end in violence.