Has anybody ever noticed similarities between the work of the late, great Marvin Gaye and Prince? I recall Funk Mistress identifying that both artists vocal harmonies were similar. Indeed, both construct very emotive and, often complex vocal layers. A stream of emotion, which often takes many listens to fully appreciate. Perhaps a good example of this can be found by comparing Princes vocals on 'when doves cry' with Gayes on 'Flyin' high in a friendly sky'.

I also feel as if they share a rhythmic understanding. Although very subtle, many of Gayes drum patterns have a melodic 'answer' quality to them. This is a skill which Prince and his trusty Linn drum mastered in the 80's.

Also, I feel that both artists share an inner struggle between 'good' and 'evil' and a blurring of the boundaries with regard to sex and salvation. The 'what's going on album' worked on so many levels; the socio-political the interpersonal, the intrapersonal and even the spiritual.

here is a line from the afore mentioned track 'flyin' high in a friendly sky'. (a song speculated to be about marvins drug abuse)

"I go to the place where danger awaits me, and its bound to forsake me. I'm so stupid minded but i go crazy when i can't find it... In the morning, i'll be alright my friend but soon the night will bring the pain".....

"I go to the place where good things await me. Self destruction in my hand. So stupid minded, but i go crazy when i cant find it. well i know that i'm hooked, my friend, to the boy who makes slaves out of men".

To me, this shows marvin strugglin with his downfalls and his vices, but at the same time revealing a strong spiritual belief and submission to god.

similarly

I recall an interview with a former prince Sound engineer (Karen kratinger?) who spoke of how Prince would most often counter balance any song with a strong sexual theme with a contrasting or perhaps complimentary spiritual message. this is strongly evident in 'darling nikki'. The combination of deep down and dirty, raw sex placed side by side with the spirtual message of the second comming.


A stark contrast i get from both artists is there persona. marvin gaye held his hands up and revealed himself to be a flawed indiviual. Perhaps this is why i am so drawn to his work, it is brutally honest and unescapably 'human'. Alternatley, prince often appears to project the image of 'above human', the unfalliable demi god. Whilst marvin lived in the 'real' prince, it seems, prefers to live in the mind, the imagination, the 'what it could be like' as opposed to marvins 'what it is like'. This is not a criticsm of either artist both areas are equal in there need for expression. I feel that both men are uniquely gifted and, whislt no man is god, i believe a selected few are put on this earth to represent his message.


I appologies if some of this does not really make much sense. I am not a great writer, and have trouble exressing in words what i feel in my head. perhaps some feeling can never be truly justified in type. For those who do feel that they understand the points i was trying to make, i look forward to reading your comments on the similarites or perhaps even differences between these two great artists.

thank you.

two men from different eras, i see the similarity, but marvin was killed becuase of religion.

I ONLY KNOW THAT MARVIN GAYE WAS A BIT JELAOUS
because everybody at the time were talking about prodigy kid who plays all instruments.
he even said "everybody's talking about that prince guy,don't they know i am the real prince.

3121 said:

My guess is that that would be Susan Rogers - Karen Krattinger (now Karen Krattinger Sternberg) was Prince's assistant.
.

Both Marvin and Prince married women 16 years their junior as well.

Marvin probably could've rocked the shit out of Prince's buttless pants. But times where different then.

Wonder what Marvin would have said if he had found out Prince was "shagging" his daughter Nona?

SPYZFAN1 said:

"What(the f*ck)'s Going On???"

Inspired replies. Such a waste of effort.

3121 said:

Well yeah. But Marv was a totally fucked-up, hopeless case in regard with his sexuality and spirituality, Prince at least has managed to handle his sexual side well. And he doesn't have the same sort of desire for "aching salvation" as Marv did anyway. In short, Marvin was more crazy.

thebanishedone said:

It's taken from one of the post u'll find somewhere on prince.org:

"Marvin wanted to reestablish his commercial prowess, Rick James- with his highly erotic, fabulously orchestrated funk- had become Motown's biggest star, and Gaye was jealous. Teddy Pendergrass was another star who worried Marvin. "Then there's this new cat," Gaye told me, "that people in the industry are talking about. Prince. Doesn't he know I'm supposed to be the only prince? They say he's sexy and has a high voice that sounds like mine. All these boys are romancing my fans, and I don't like it. I'm getting my fans back. I'm doing a straight-ahead make-out party album."

Novabreaker said:

i have read several books on Marvin gaye and i never regarded him as crazy. very unique in his methods and very flawed but i do believe there was a 'truth' in his erratic ways. I often found his comments to be articulate and often interesting.

The thing with Marvin is that he was not a musician. He was more of a singer/entertainer-- even moreso than MJ. Prince can work his demons out through his art whereas Marvin (and MJ for that matter) have less artistic recourse. That's not saying that Marvin didn't have something to say. In fact, where Prince was lacking-- the socio-political commentary-- Marvin was strong.

I agree that they share that sexual-spiritual and intrapersonal commonground. Prince is undoubtedly indebted to Marvin for some of that since he came first. As for the vocal harmonies I can see the similarities. I haven't really looked at them closely so I don't hear any more similarity between them than I do between Stevie and Prince.

3121 said:

Gaye wasn't "crazy", like most genius' he was misunderstood.

whodknee said:

I'd have to disagree with you there. Marvin Gaye was a phenomenal musician and multi-intstrumentalist. He often played piano and drums on his work, especially his 1970's self-produced material. Moreover, Gaye wrote and produced his legendary material. Here, My Dear is a prime example of Gaye's musicianship becuase many of the songs on the double album were written and recorded when he returned from divorce court. He came up with most of the lyrics while sitting at the synthesizer and his bandmates followed his cues during the recording sessions. Those recordings were made up on the cuff and Gaye was able to flesh out songs from them. Gaye inspired Stevie Wonder to create more socially concious work after he released What's Going On. Furthermore, Gaye perfected the use of vocal multi-tracking that Prince uses to this day(prime examples Adore, Anotherloverholenyohead amongst many others). Gaye's influence on Prince is also felt in the juxtapostion of the sacread and profane; and both men purge the intimate deatails of their lives through music. I suggest you read up on Gaye before you state that he was not a musician, that comment is seriously flawed.
[Edited 5/7/05 12:31pm]

lilgish said:

Marvin's father shot him.
Religion had nothing to do with it.
Marvin was killed because of bad craziness.

3121 said:

am glad that you brought this up. There is an similarity between P and Marvin. Both P and Marvin exude senuality and social consciousness in their music. Also, they both come the background of controling fathers.

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

I read one of his biographies a few years back and I'm not sure how reliable these books are but I got the impression that he had producers making the music and they had a hard time getting him into the studio to lay down his vocals. As for him being a "phenomenal" multi-instrumentalist I haven't seen any proof. I've never seen him play anything. Of course, I haven't seen everything so if you've got specifics do tell.

I can't speak to Gaye's influence on Prince, but as I said he's probably indebted to Marvin to some degree.

thedoorkeeper said:

Well, Marvin's father was a pastor and was real strict and he didn't like his son's choice of music at all, in fact he consider it "the devil's music". This had sort of put them at odds - they even argued alot cause of this. Then his father quit preaching and had began drinking, which would lead to his father being jealous of Marvin cause his son was the one providing for the family and putting food on the table. In other words, Marvin was took over as the head of the household. His son succeeded where he had failed.

The day Marvin was killed, I think his father, in a way, had already had it in for Marvin when he shot him for jumped to his mother defense during a violent argument.
[Edited 5/7/05 17:25pm]

thedoorkeeper said:

granted, but a spiritual connection was made between the two. Marvin's killer was his pastor father, I mean that's sorta biblical.

Man, I've been waiting for a thread with this comparison. As a huge Marvin Gaye & Prince fan, I definitely see the similarities between the two. The raw energy and emotion that both of them put into their music, particularly love ballads are incomparable. Whenever I hear the live version of Marvin's "Distant Lover" I can totally see P throwin down on that.

Bouncing off this thread--Since I've stated my favorite Marvin/P song, does anyone else have a song by Marvin they'd love to hear P perform (live, of course)

Peace
[Edited 5/7/05 22:00pm]
[Edited 5/7/05 22:02pm]

Thank you for the replies. Its good to read the diverse opinions. Another connection between both artists was their dislike of record companies. The current book i am reading about Gaye contains several quotes by Marvin regarding this matter. He talks of his dislike of the control that motown had over his work, the disproportionate payment between artist and label and ownership of masters. Some of the quotes are very similar to what prince was talking about in the 90's. Perhaps the starngest thing was that marvin said that Motown didnt want to release the 'whats going on' album!

lilgish said:

If religion played a part in Marvin's murder was just by a really small percent.

Yeah, they were at odds cause of the type of music Marvin did, but not all the time. The same gun that his father used to shoot him, was the gun that Marvin had bought for his father a few months (or weeks, I forget) earlier. Remember, his father had already stopped preaching, turned to drinking which would intensify the jealousy of his own son.

whodknee said:

Marvin started out a a drummer.
He was better suited to the studio that live performance as a solo artist.
He was responsible for at least four of the greatest soul albums ever made
1. What's goin on
2. Here my Dear
3. I want you
4. Lets get it on.

I think he was the greatest soul vocalist of all time.

Prince is a musical genius, a consumate live performer and a man responsible for some of the greatest albums of all time, soul or otherwise.

Prince obviously appreciates Marvin's legacy. He recorded, but unfortunatly never released a kicking version of Gotta (Give it up) with Marv's daughter Nona on lead vocal.
Marvins star was beginning to fade (for a second time) as Princes was rising, Marvin was a Coke fiend at this time also, so I reckon any animosity he had towards Prince was fuelled by these elements.

bodank35 said:

-----
Distant Lover or If I Should Die Tonigt. Great songs that I think P could pull off.

whodknee said:

-----
Marvin played the piano and drums. You need to do a little reading up on Marv.

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

Yeah, and Madonna played the guitar. Like I said, give me something concrete to watch or hear.

colm said:[quote]

whodknee said:

Marvin started out a a drummer.
He was better suited to the studio that live performance as a solo artist.
He was responsible for at least four of the greatest soul albums ever made
1. What's goin on
2. Here my Dear
3. I want you
4. Lets get it on.

I think he was the greatest soul vocalist of all time.

quote]

I agree that he's the greatest RECORDED soul vocalist of all time. I'm sure there are/were others as good.
[Edited 5/8/05 18:05pm]

whodknee said:

-----
Try checking out the liner notes to some of his CD's or reading "Divided Soul by David Ritz. Loads of Motown session musicians talk about Marvin and his piano playing.

I am never going to stop being surprised at the level of arrogance on this board. It would be so easy to check into my statement instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.