Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:39:06 -0600 (CST)
From: "NPG Music Club"

High NPGMC,

It's a new year and we would now like 2 offer all r members "The 2002 Package" of the NPG
Music Club - New CDs, New Tours, New Xperiences.

As a 2002 member of the NPG Music Club, u will receive at least 4 NEW Prince CDs, just like ones offered in retail stores, that will b mailed 2 u directly thruout the year from Paisley Park.

And once again, [again? really?]
u will b given members-only oppor2nities 2 get the best seats in the house on
Prince's upcoming world-wide tour.

Prince & The NPG will take the stage all over the world in 2002 2 xplore new dimensions in music in a way u have never heard b4 from Prince.

NPGMC 2002 Members will have the chance 2 b there every step of the way xperiencing the music up close and personal, with oppor2nities 4 soundcheck access and aftershow entrance as well.

The 2002 Package will b available 4 $100 and cover all of 2002.

Members with months left on their old membership will be given options 4 renewing. Visit the site in mid-February 2 access the next xperience.

Come and b a part of the 2002 NPG Music Club!

Love4oneanother,
The NPG Music Club 2002
www.npgmusicclub.com



Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:48:36 -0600 (CST)

High NPG Music Club,


The first CD is almost ready 2 go and we will b sending out an announcement as soon as the first ones hit the mail.

Between now and the end of the year, lots of amazing music will b headed ur way, this is only the beginning.


-----

randomduck said:

I've said before, tho, Random, that if--IF--Prince does NOT tour outside of the U.S., THEN people have more than a right to complain....I don't disagree with you there...

And just for the record, it DOES still say Prince will be "touring the world" on the npgmc web site...so no need for panic just yet...

From the Concerts Page of the club members section of the site:

"Dates and in4mation can change at any time without notice.
Check back often.

More dates will be added all year as Prince & The NPG take the music world-wide in 2002!"

Once again...no need to panic just yet...

wellbeyond said:

I got to disagree. that is not a good comparison since there are no other rec companies, promotion costs and retail profit cuts that you have when you buy a cd in a store.


I disagree again... the chance of Prince giving an actual afterSHOW (like a concert/jamsession) if he shows up at all, is not big. Those are not perks most members will be able to profit from. Besides Prince can always arrange deals with clubs about a limited number of people getting in for free that will cost him hardly any money. But Prince will receive most of the money from the other tickets sold tho...



I think you could better say that it costs them money to organize an entire world tour they promissed the members worldwide and that these costs are what you also pay for. But then he has to give a worldtour.
However 125 dollar for 1 ticket is not something I expected since it is about 3 times as much as what I paid last time... so what kind of perk is it then really?



Wb... how the hell can you compare this to scalping? Prince can make a deal with the owner of the concert hall that he is playing, or with ticketmaster, that a limited amount of "VIP's" get the best seats for free. Members pay for these perks and NPGMC doesn't have to buy these tickets from the concerthall when they arrange this... a scalper however does have to buy the ticket first and does it to make money.
As if 125 dollars isn't enough already! damn!

I really think that to compare what the club is doing to scalping because normally people would pay that much too is essentially saying that the club is sucking as much money as possible out of members pockets.




Sorry, but I really disagree again...I think your comparison of the relationship between an artist, like prince, and his long time fans with these kind of sales man doesn't hold.

Prince fans WANT the music, because they love Prince music.
Many also still want to pay for it and have official releases first... Prince should essentially feel lucky that he still has a fanbase that is prepared to spend a whole lot of money on his music. This is a different relationship than you are talking about with those door to door sellers... it is much more personal.

wellbeyond said:

I'm too tipsy to care at the moment. I have my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Abrazo, you have to remember one VERY important thing I said...and that's when you compare the npgmc cost to what it would cost for you to buy these same products and services without it...

Without the music club in place(or something similar), you'd HAVE to go to a retail store to buy any new CDs from Prince...at which time the extra costs of a distributor and retail mark-up do indeed come into play...In order for your conclusion to be correct, you'd have to compare Prince's music club to OTHER music clubs being run in the same manner, and show that those other clubs only charge about $10 a CD...you won't find ANY club set up like Prince's(if there are any) that will sell brand new CDs for less than $15 bucks...

You also have to take into account that the cost per CD is much higher to make when the amount made is at a much lower volume...It doesn't cost the same per CD to Make the CDs for "Invincible" that it does for "The Rainbow Children"...the former probably had a production run of around 5 million CDs(to be shipped globally), while the latter probably only had a production run of about 500,000...the costs lower per CD the higher the production run...


I think there were far more concerts with aftershows than those without...but it's still irrelevant, because the cost of getting IN an aftershow is the same...so there IS a comparison to be made...


When I went to the Hit & Run tour, it cost me--and everyone who attended--$75...That was at the Palladium, which is not NEARLY as nice(nor as expensive to rent out) as the Kodak Theatre...not to mention that EVERYONE, members or not, had to pay $125 for the good seats, so you weren't paying anymore for tickets if you were a member...what you DID pay more for, though, was for the service("perk") of being able to buy your ticket early and guaranteeing yourself a great seat...only Scalpers offer that service as far as I know...all Prince did was legitimize it...



I compare it to scalping because--look around, Abrazo--there IS no other "service" to compare the early purchase/best seats service to that the music club provides...so you compare it to what's logically closest to it in operation and in delivered "product"(that being a great seat thru other means than TicketMaster)...



LoL..how do you think those scalpers get those amazing great seats??...By waiting by their computer monitors when TicketMaster opens up and just gobbling up as many as they can??..lol..Puh-leeze...If TicketMaster opens at 10:00am, those great seats would already be in scalping companies' hands by 10:00 and 5 seconds...lol...What Prince did, theoretically at least, is "buy" up the first 15 rows of seats BEFORE the scalpers could, knowing that the scalpers will ALWAYS get the majority of those seats before the fans would...why do you think so many people complained early on in the tour??...Members having to sit way up in the balcony...it's cuz those seats were GONE BEFORE EVEN CLUB MEMBERS got to 'em...not always, but far too many times...



Non-members had to pay the same price, tho..that's what you're ignoring...the $125 wasn't a "club price"...it would have cost you that much whether or not you had joined... but by joining, you KNEW you would get a seat...no "sold out in 10 minutes" shit to worry about...


Sorry you think that way...but like I said, I used scalping because it's the ONLY comparable "service" to which to gauge whether the "price" of the npg is too high or not...


LoL...why wouldn't it??...same thing, it doesn't matter one iota whether or not you know, like, or even acknowlege the business owner's presence in your life...I think, because people ARE Prince fans, that they feel they don't HAVE to do what they normally would do when purchasing anything in their normal lives...and that's a ridiculous mistake to make...

Wellbeyond said.....
I compare it to scalping because--look around, Abrazo--there IS no other "service" to compare the early purchase/best seats service to that the music club provides...so you compare it to what's logically closest to it in operation and in delivered "product"(that being a great seat thru other means than TicketMaster)...

Damn wellB u should marry the man or start a new jim jones cult 4 him.He can't do no wrong(shits gold,pisses a cure 4 cancer,farts purple rain,etc..What ever happened 2 waiting in line 4 good seats.when i really want them that's what i do.u pay me a hundred bucks extra.i'll get ya good seats.(WITHIN THE FIRST 15 ROWS).when u pay 4 the membership yr gonna go 2 the concert and then aftershow 2 get your moneys worth(even if u don't completely feel like it)smart marketing by prince if u ask me.the only thing free is the soundcheck which i will admit is a very nice bonus and probably worth the hundred bucks by itself.
[This message was edited Thu May 16 18:56:56 PDT 2002 by theC]

Being that this is the 5th month of a 12 month membership, I would say I've gotten my $41.65 worth with great seats to the show and a soundcheck, and I haven't even received my CD yet, so that will make it worth even more.

theC said:

If Prince were to release live tracks and radio shows on his 4 promised CDs this year there would be so many complaints that this site would collapse under its own weight. Hell, he could release 12 CDs this year of that stuff and I would suspect most people would be up in arms.

I have no use for radio programs that contain almost all music I've owned in CD quality for years, and in some cases decades. And as much as I'd love to have live albums, I sure as hell don't want a few individual live tracks from random shows. What I’m interested in is the entire concert.

And an entire concert release just might happen in year 2. Although due to Prince's infamous perfectionism, I fear it will be so overdubbed that he’ll take the life right out of it.

And I'll never let go of standing up for consumer responsibility and common sense. I don't give a damn about defending NPGMC or Prince. I don't know either, and never will. I'm defending my own viewpoint.

Novy said:

I NO U(isn't a nova an old car?????)

Wellbeyond said

The problem is, as you eloquently stated earlier, that Prince didn't give prospective members of the club an option of knowing really what they could get, generalities aside. We weren't able to "flip through the booklet" as you say. I mean, knowing P, his world tour might consist of the continental U.S. and Canada.

I'm not upset. I didn't join.

For simple justification of "$25 a CD" and not specific tracklists, realise that this album (at least for now) is exclusive only to NPGMC Year two members. I assume the membership totals little more than several thousand people and so costs will be high in producing and distributing to a limited marketplace. This is also maximised by having these destinations scattered around the globe.

Equate it with Uptown magazine if you will, Uptown in itself, 30 or so pages is not worth the cost in material terms but we pay over the odds for the rarity of the content and so that it may continue to exist in spite of limited readership on a specialist subject matter.

wellbeyond said:

Ani di Franco sells her new discs on her website for 15$, shipping costs you a mere dollar. Her older albums are also for sale for less, some even go for 8$.
The point is that normally prince would not ask 25$ when there are all those middlemen involved, so he should ask less, because he makes much higher profits. Essentially Prince has increased his profit margin with at least 400 %, since normally he really wouldn't make more than about 5 dollars per cd sold , now he is making much, MUCH more per cd sold.
One man alone at his piano, a demo recording, 35 minutes, then costs of printing a cd... no more than 1 dollar, then mailing it, no more than 1 -3 dollars. That's a possible 20 dollar for performing and producing 35 minutes of music in one demo-take.


That really depends where and how he lets this discs be produced. It really doesn't have to cost him more than 50-75 cents to produce one. One to three dollars more for shipping and that's it. That is not worth a price 10 dollars more than usual. If Ani and many others can do that, so can Prince. the pont is that Prince doesn't want to sell for 15$, it's probably to cheap for him. Take a look at the merchandise... 15$ is the price of a coffe mug! (EXCLUDING shipping)




well if he would do a worldtour with many aftershows then yes it can be said to be part of the membership price. if he doesn't, then it can't.


So cool he legitimizes it, but he still asks you almost twice as much as was normal just a while ago. Sure it's the Kodak with nice seats and all that, so it can be expected to get more expensive, but twice as much??? come on... a Hit and run tour in large venues makes him more money if it sells out then a theater tour, because at least twice as much people buy those tickets. So Prince just raises its price 200%, because he has enough fans left willing to pay just about anything to hear him play and thus he gets close to making his old profit margins which he is used to.



I think it's a bad comparison because the intention of a scalper is essentially different than that of the club. If scalping companies can get all those great seats as fast as you say, then something is fucked up in the system and it smells like fraud.
I think prince does not have to buy these tickets. He only needs to arrange that a certain amount of tickets is not for sale for the genral public before the members have had the oppurtunity to buy them. So imo Prince doesn't have to act the same as a scalper by incorparating this "service" in the prices he asks for 40-50 $.



No dude I am not ignoring that and it's non- members that wanted best seats who had to pay the same. The point is that if you already paid 100 bucks you can only enjoy your perks if you pay up another 125 more... so essentially your worse off than the non member. especially if he can get the "new" cd's a few months later in stores for 15$...
so for members it gets even more epensive than it already is. that's what i'm saying, you know that.



I am not saying that fans shouldn't have to do what they normally would do when purchasing anything. I am saying that the relationship factually and essentially is different. Does that door to door salesman offer you a soundcheck with prince, the artist some are already 20 years a fan of, as a perspective?? No, but Prince does...
[This message was edited Fri May 17 8:01:49 PDT 2002 by Abrazo]

I have been happy with the NPGMC so far. When NPG rolled out Y2, I was really questioning why no more downloads. When I emailed the club they said the plan was to change the club every year. I have a life and I'm able to make money so I am not getting all uptight about the $100. Only a few months into Y2 and who knows what the rest will bring. I hope in the following years more music will be offered thru 1800newfunk. I just think it would be great to be able to buy live shows and soundchecks direct. I really have thought about it, and I think if Prince sold any sorta new cd thru newfunk now that too many fans would be bitching and wanting the cd to be part of the $100 membership fee. I would be more than willing to pay $15 for an AHDIO cd from Y1. I just enjoy the music! Some of the tracks from the high sessions were worth the $100 to me!

you gotta be kidding me, wb. there were 6 or 7 aftershows in the whole first leg of the tour...not that i'm complaining. there was a soundcheck at almost every stop (the one i saw was about an hour full of music) and the concert itself was unREAL. but for someone who's always preaching "think beore you post," this statement comes off as a little, uh...hypocritical


wb said: I think there were far more concerts with aftershows than those without...but it's still irrelevant, because the cost of getting IN an aftershow is the same...so there IS a comparison to be made...

With the way people are complaining about the year 2 membership, it's like going back to the box office after buyuing tix to see a movie and asking for a refund before the previews are over and the reason for refund is the movies sucks! U havn't seen the DAMN MOVIE YET...SHUT THE FUCK UP, complain in august spetember or november, U HAVN"T GOTTEN THE DAMN CD YET!!!
NO MATTER WHAT PRINCE DOES, PEOPLE BITCH AND MOAN. it's a wonder he does any of this after seeng what everybody here says about his ass.

Yeah we got ripped off.....but what do you expect for "membership free?" He just gave all of us props & extra goodies for guarantee-ing, with our membership dues, that we would buy his CD's, hence be a fan. Is this really worth the $? Prince has dogged so many of us; his upcoming celebration reflects the response he's gotten on a whole.....xenophobe, no, just don't like to talk to people who diss me to my face then flip the script like Carrie & say, oh, but will you speak with me backstage please...

Y'all are stupid if you think Prince doesn't run this fan site in the first place, & I guess y'all think it's a coincidence that Mayte has a regular site & a fan site too from the same co. that built Prince's.....dumb, dumb, dumb, Green Giant

be smart, we all are being used. But some of us like it, like Lisa Lopez, you & you too.....me too, Divinity

More fuel for the fire.

Official - Why does the cover of the ONA CD have an advert asking people to join the NPGMC? Remember it was NPGMC who say...

"By joining the NPG Music Club, U will b given access 2 an xclusive array of xperiences from PRINCE & The New Power Generation, including new unreleased Prince CDs, live events, special merchandise items, concert deals, and much more.

Note, "Xclusive" not first. So therefore everyone who will own ONA will already be a member. So why the advert?

Prince wouldn't be heading for stitching us up would he? Shock!


Official - The CD value is $10. If he delivers the four CDs and no "world" tour, I'll be looking forward to my 50% refund.

I've had the CD a week now. Its good for the collection, but its not great. "Pearls" stick out like a sore thumb and shouldn't be on there. Its like sticking Interactive onto the Truth Album. All the best songs, I paid for last year and this year.

SquirrelMeat said:

SquirrelMeat can I refer you to a thread I started regarding UK members and customs charges we have to pay.

http://www.prince.org/msg...#msg_83340

This was the NPGMC's response to my query about nominal values for UK customs.

High

We do not have specific info on the CDs yet but we do xpect 2 send them
separately and we will try and remember the 10 USD value.

This could explain the $10 value. It does not necessarily mean that they think the value is $10. The club membership is $100 that is all that has been stated.
[This message was edited Mon May 20 6:14:27 PDT 2002 by KeithyT]

An interesting flashback

I'd say ian takes the award for best prediction.