It may be too early to say whether anyone has gotten their $100 worth, we may have to wait until the end of the year.

However, I will say this. I said it at the time NPGMC 2002 was announced. The whole approach for 2002 is a con. You stumped up your $100 with NO idea what you were paying for. It was a leap of faith, and an ill-advised one too given the history of NPGMC.

You paid your $100, with no idea what music you were getting how much music you were getting. Prince could easily keep selling you songs you've already paid for in 2001 and he'd still be living up to his part of the deal. At least in a record store you can check the tracklisting in advance, and make a decision as to whether you buy it or not. With NPGMC you have no such luxury. And call me paranoid, but handing over $100 of my money WITHOUT knowing what I was paying for is just plain stupid.

Shit, I wouldn't even lend $100 to a friend unless I was pretty sure I'd get it back at some point in the future.

To those that keep bringing up the sound checks and all nonsense - please wake up. There are some people on this site who are ADULTS. I don't care to meet Prince, and I don't need to talk to Prince. I don't need to be Prince's friend, I don't need to touch his guitar or talk to his technicians. All I want out of Prince is good music. He might be a lovely chap in real life but I don't know him. I'll happily buy his music if it is good though.

The value of NPGMC 2002 will be evident when the last of the 4 CDs has been shipped later this year. I personally will not be joining - I'll wait until it looks like good value. Based on the first of the CDs though, it doesn't look good.

The first CD of 2002 is 35 minutes, exactly half of which is taken up with songs you already paid for if you were a member in 2001. Now that is fine, if you KNEW what you were getting before you handed over your $100. But you didn't, and you have a right too feel ripped off. If you prefer, wait until the other 3 CDs arrive before you feel ripped off, but you will feel ripped off at some point.

Ian
[This message was edited Thu May 16 6:29:36 PDT 2002 by ian]
[This message was edited Thu May 16 14:22:21 PDT 2002 by ian]

Squirrelmeat: interesting, interesting, interesting.

To be honest, my initial reaction upon viewing the tracklist was of disappointment. Yes, I was surprised that 5 of the 10 tracks had already been released in some form.

One problem with us fans, I feel, is that we have different priorities to Prince. Most of us, if we already have a track don't want to pay for it again. Prince, like I said on the other main ONA thread, doesn't see the previous availability of a track as important unless it has been placed next to the tracks that truly make it as valuable as it should be. (A similar discourse explains the Lovesexy one-track affair). So, a clear artistic statement is Prince's highest priority.

Perhaps, in Prince's eyes, nobody really owned half the album already, since half the album would be on the actual CD. Before that, the tracks are just floating plankton waiting to truly mean something.

That said, there is still ample argument for still being disappointed. With the huge amount of material which Prince could choose to release instead, he could make it so very easy for himself to avoid criticism. (This point is debatable, some might argue that they don't want 'old' music, but I think most would be satisfied). I think there is also a strong case that Prince should not have released quite so much of the music early. Perhaps 2 ONA tracks might have whet our appetite enough.

However, again, the "Artistic statement, whole package" argument could still override all of that, bringing me back to my original point. Once again, we must remember that Prince is not a businessman. His philosophies are incompatable with "Dollars per minutes" concerns. So those of us who join the club on these expectations are gonna definately be disappointed. Prince SPEAKS through this music: that is his only concern.

This approach explains the Best of O(-> album. One can surmise as to the myriad of statements Prince is trying to make through this. "Those years were productive", "I don't regret them", "I haven't forgotten about them", "They are a part of who I am", "These are the tracks that prove they were great years" etc. It doesn't matter if we already own most/all of these tracks. Their meanings change in the arrangement they are going to be placed in. I for one am actually quite excited about this album. What appears on those discs are going to be very very interesting statements. Prince is going to be telling us a lot about his take on the 0(-> years.

I'm sorry, but when Prince means this club is for the fans, he really means "This club is for those who concur with my music philosophy". If you don't, you are bound to be disappointed. And it's not your fault. It's not Prince's fault. It's just the absence of meeting of minds.


This was not edited...
[This message was edited Thu May 16 6:28:54 PDT 2002 by gubbins4ever]

Meat-
W O N D E R F U L !!!!! FINALLY!!! SOMEONE SEES THE LIGHT!

Good point made by all....
My own view about this years NPGMC package so far is that they are (or aren't- take your pick.lol.) trying to please everybody. I think for future years thay should have different membership packages with varying costs. This would allow us-THE CUSTOMER- to have a say in what we get out of our membership. This 'one size fits all' approach is no good (IMVHO of course). For example:
Package 1- CDs only
Package 2- CDs and extra downloads
Package 3- CDs and better seats at concerts
Etc.....

Just a thought.....

Also understand that it's a MINIMUM of four CD albums under NPGMC Year Two.

I have a feeling an additional sweetener will be added... perhaps the NYC 2002 show he's mixing.

ian said:

How does 5 out of 10 equal "over half" in your eyes??...'Splain that one...lol...(must be the new math)


We did know beforehand that four of those songs would be on one of the CDs we'd recieve this year...the only surprise was "Pearls B4 Swine"(and I have my theories on why it was included, but that's for another thread..lol)...



Thanks for letting us know that...cuz we might have ended our year 2 membership blissfully happy with everything our membership got us (see Organgrinder The Magnificent as an example) had you not alerted us to our need to feel cheated...I shall spend the next 9 months awaiting the inevitable rip off that I'm positive will come my way, my radar up to detect any speck of possible disappointment on the horizon, thus allowing me to type out my complaints about products and services I have yet to recieve or experience.....

getblue said:

I LIKE this person...!!!..lol What a rare quality displayed around here, to actually say that you were aware that you didn't know exactly what you'd be able to take advantage of other than the CDs, but you joined anyway..and THEN putting the responsibility at your own feet...Bravo..(claps..).. 8)

randomduck said:

And a good thought, too...how much you wanna bet that year 3(if there is a year 3) does indeed end up similar to what you outlined here??...We already know that one year will differ from the next...

SquirrelMeat said:

OK, for those who were members in year 1, ONA might seem a little bit of a cheat. A few points though :

1. We all knew that some of the tracks released during the last month of year 1 were from a forthcoming album - actually it was 2 because Madrid 2 Chicago was also meant to have been part of this years club, but changed afterwards.

2. Many have been asking for a proper release of Pearls B 4 swine (or whatever). Wasn't it originally mixed into the Ahdio show?

3. You mention new members from the concerts - to them this is all new stuff.

4. 35 to 40 min is still the norm for many albums. It comes from the 3 min per track / 10 or 12 tracks per album thing. This is probably similar duration as what we had on The Rainbow Children really, if you take out all of the speaches, and you can't really call The Wedding Feast a Song.

5. I'm a UK based fan, and $25 is not a bad price to pay for an Imported Album. $25 is only the price if we get nothing more than the 4 promised CD's. If as some people think that we'll actually get 5, Prince tours other places other than the US then the value is increased. Isn't the Celebration this year for club members only? For those who can attend that is more added value.

We have now reached the end of the first quarter of year 2. The first album has begun shipping (at around the same tame as they promised). This is only the begining, and we need more evidence before bitching and moaning about anything. Wait until the 2nd disc arrives

Squirrel & Ian, I applaud your candid and rational assessments. (maybe because I agree with them.)

Prince's track record with poor business decisions screams his apathy toward his market. And, given the cryptic responses you all generally get from npgmc employees, there doesn't seem to be a real in-house commitment to straightforward, efficient service. Ani he ain't.

The most interesting trait I see among Prince's more enthusiastic and longtime defenders is devotion, blind faith others might call it. Isn't it ironic how P rails against tithing and giving money to preachers (tithing is actually urged/commanded in the Old Testament's Malachai) but basically expects his devotees to give their money to him in good faith?

Will Prince arrive in a Lexus coupe and perform in a pinstripe suit at his next concert? He might as well.

Personally, I can't wait for Meshell's next concert and to catch her and Neil Finn, respectively, live. It'll be refreshing to see real artists who work for their fan base and deliver good music on top of it all.

I think SquirrelMeat has raised some valid concerns.

I too have no problem with the CD being 34 mins.
or with the CD being only 10 tracks.
and I'm also a firm believer in quality rather then Quantity as well(just look at how many artists feel the need to fill up CD's with filler, I think 40 mins was the perfect length for a single album).

I was also well aware that the 4 tracks from the final month'd downloads from year one would appear on One Night Alone (and fully expected it to be the first CD mailed out). But I have to admit I didn't expect those 4 tracks (plus Pearls B4 The Swine) to constitute such a large percentage of the album.

At this stage my opinion would be, maybe they should have made One Night Alone available for purchase in the members only retail section, and sent us something 100% new instead.

But having said that, I do have faith that by the end of the year, once we have all the CD's it will have been worth it.

Or to put it another way, I don't see how I can judge whether or not I've been 'ripped off' until I've recieved all the CD's, because we may get more than 4, and/or 1 of them might be a double... or who knows.

Not knocking any of u... & with all due respect:

I refuse 2 get involved with any criticism over an album regarding it's content or length until I have the copy in my hand and the music blaring thru my speakers...

When that happens...I'll bust out my opinion. (As if ur all holding ur breath!)

However...Canada 1st?!? What The Fuck?!?

Ian wrote:

>>>To those that keep bringing up the sound checks and all nonsense - please wake up. There are some >>>people on this site who are ADULTS. I don't care to meet Prince, and I don't need to talk to Prince. I >>>don't need to be Prince's friend, I don't need to touch his guitar or talk to his technicians. All I want out >>>of Prince is good music. He might be a lovely chap in real life but I don't know him. I'll happily buy his >>>music if it is good though

Who said anything about meeting Prince or talking to him or even being his friend? HOW is one NOT an adult by enjoying the concert perks? While I’m no fan of Prince’s religious choices or how he conducts business, I am still a fan of the man who kicked my ass over and over with incredible music. The reason the concert perks such as soundcheck and aftershow are worth the membership to me is because I got to hear MIND BLOWING MUSIC before, during and after the concert!!

I think it all depends on why you joined. Personally, I gave up trying to hear every unreleased bit of music Prince has in the vaults a long time ago. Ain't gonna happen. Probably shouldn't.

Now I joined strictly for the concert perks. Guaranteed great seats and got to see an amazing aftershow. I've NEVER had that in twenty years of following Prince. Frankly, at the aftershow, after seeing Erykah Badu and Prince performing together live and up close, I figure I owe Prince a few dollars. The Cd's are just gravy at this point. So I already got what I paid for and I'm just chillin' now. But that's just me.

Universal, I've been a fan for 23 years and this was the first time I experienced an aftershow too. It was well worth the membership, well worth it.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

The HOB show was a $50 value in and of itself...and club members got in for free...(well, some members didn't, but that's another story..lol)...Sitting in on Prince during his sound check, attending a free concert sitting up close to the stage, and 4 new CDs from Prince for $100??...Someone PLEASE convince me that's not a superb deal...

Like it or not, the npg music club has the possibility of being an enormous value for some, a decent value for others, and not much of a value at all for others still...we all knew this(or should have known this if we were smart) ahead of time....it's up to us to decide what type of value it will hold for us individually before we sign up, not afterwards...and if you didn't, you have noone to blame but yourself...

Great point WellB, I only rejoined for year 2 ONLY when I found out that Prince was going to be in concert in LA. I didn’t rejoin for the music. Overall I did enjoy the music from year 1 but the censorship issue bothered me to the point that I wouldn’t sign up again unless I could enjoy the member perks at concerts. I don’t care what anybody says, $100 membership was totally worth it to me. I only saw Prince 2 other times (Jam of The Year & Hit N Run), and both times I was nearly as far away as you could get. For my $100, I got front row seating (Imagine how incredible that is for someone who only saw an ant sized person with Prince’s voice the other 2 times!!), I also got to watch the soundcheck in which he played Can’t stop this feeling I got and Money Don’t Matter 2night (2 songs I never thought in a million years I’d get to hear live). I also got to see a kick ass concert UP CLOSE. This concert made the other 2 tours I saw look like an imposter put them on. Prince was in flawless form, believe it. I also got free entry to the aftershow. Not only that but my guest received free entry too. On top of that I had 3 people in front of me at the aftershow, that’s how close to the stage I was. I also got to witness Sheila E and Prince jam together. Another thing I never in a million years thought I’d get to see. At the aftershow I got to see Prince play more incredible music, 2 highlights being Beautiful Strange and a kick ass rendition of Calhoun Square.

So for me, even if I got nothing else for my $100, I scored in the most major way. The music is just an extra at this point.

wellbeyond said:

Arrogant patronizing and nitpicking aside Wellbeyond, my points all stand. "Half" or "over half" - that doesn't detract in any way from the point I made. And as for you being aware of the contents of the ONA CD beforehand, gosh if only the rest of the NPGMC membership was as privileged as yourself to be privy to secret information on Prince's forthcoming releases. You know, you really might have shared the info beforehand and saved some people a lot of cash.

As I say, my points stated above stand. Personally, right now, NPGMC 2002 looks like a con to me and I am very glad I didn't join up this year. If you are the kind of person that has no problem with paying $25 for a 35 minute long CD, half of which you had ALREADY paid for the previous year, I'm happy for you. But you'll forgive us I hope, if a few people with common sense disagree with you.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Well, you've kinda made my point for me. You see, the people speaking out in favour of NPGMC invariably justify being ripped off (with the CD and music content provided by the club) by explaining how wonderful the "concept perks" are.

Aside from the fact that a very small portion of the club members actually get to avail of those perks you refer to, you'll find that there are plenty of NPGMC members who don't go all gooey at the prospect of being at a sound check, sitting closer to the front of the stage, meeting his guitar techs, talking to Prince etc (these and reasons like these are exactly the ones listed by people on Prince.org defending NPGMC). I really really don't care about that stuff, and I'm not the only one.

All I'd want out of the NPG Music Club is new music. Using your "concert perks" to excuse the flaws of the rest of the service in general is a joke. Bear in mind that for the majority of the membership, the only part of the club they will get to experience for their $100 is the music (be it downloads or CDs). If THAT most central part of the $100 deal is not up to scratch, then really the rest of it doesn't matter a damn.
[This message was edited Thu May 16 15:27:10 PDT 2002 by ian]

Oh yeah, and anyone saying that $100 for an aftershow gig alone was worth it CLEARLY doesn't understand the value of money.

For the ludicrously high ticket prices you guys paid to get into the gigs in the first place, the sound check and after show bits are the very fucking least Prince & Co can do.

And (this one goes out to you, Wellbeyond) a perk which may seem like great value to you but which 95% of the other NPGMC members cannot avail of is NOT, overall, a great deal. Anyone who feels like they personally have got a great deal for their $100, I'm happy for you. But recognise and understand that many, in fact MOST other members will not feel that way.

Ian, I completely understand and agree with many negative points being made about this topic. I'm simply telling you why NPGMC membership is worth it.....to ME.

ian said:

Yes! A few here go on and on about how great the shoundcheck was and I'm happy for them. BUT please appreciate that this experinece will not apply to all members. So don't use that as a reason to back up your argument that the NPGMC is such good value for money. It was good value for YOU, in YOUR opinion.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That, my friend, is totally fair enough and I appreciate that. However, I'm just sticking up for the people who feel that it isn't worth it to them.

Not that I'm one of those people - I didn't hand over any cash, so I wasn't ripped off. If I had handed over the $100 earlier this year, to be honest I'd almost have expected to be ripped off anyway

Pearls before the Swine is definitely dedicated to any of us "fams" who've complained about Prince, such as I did with the censorship issue. Thank you Prince for writing such a pretty song about me

ian said:

Fill me in how you managed to find out not only the total membership numbers for the npg music club, but ALSO managed to take a poll as to how many of those people so far made available to them??...(emphasis on "so far", since there's 9 months left and there's been absolutely NO mention of the tour being over)...Just curious as to how and why you think 95% of the club members can not and WILL not have access to these great "perks"...


I don't agree...I think MOST members are at least waiting until the years's almost over before making any definitive assessment or comment on the club...MOST members realize that they still MAY INDEED have access to these perks you're swearing won't be available to 95% of the members...and I think MOST members understand the concept of waiting until you recieve both the product and the services before you can have anything to complain about...

Yes, there are a smaller and very vocal minority who feel like yellin' from the rooftops that Prince has ripped them off even without PROOF that he has(speculation around here is taken as if it's the word hand-delivered from God himself)...but I bet if you actually counted the number of members who have either commented positively on the music club or have said "it's too soon to say right now", they would FAR outnumber the handful of complainers you're basing ,most of your assumptions on...

randomduck said:

Follow me here, folks...lol...(sheeesh)

There are only two ways of judging the value of the music club fee: Subjectively and Objectively...lol..Subjectively means you see what your $100 got you for the year(NOT for the 3 months), and you make a subjective analysis based solely on your own tastes, likes and desires...Objectively means you take the prices being offered by the npgmc for their products and services, and compare them to what it would cost you for similar products and services being offered elsewhere without the club...

That's it..only two ways of judging it...no other ways exist, no matter how hard we try...

So, with that in mind, subjectively those who say their $100 was a great value so far have FAR more clout simply because the value of the club can NOT be diminished over the next 9 months...However...those who say their $100 has NOT been a good value have far LESS clout simply because the true value of their money CAN INDEED rise over the next 9 months...

As for objectively, you can compare 4 new CDs bought in the store, which would be around $60-$75....Let's say $70 for 4 new CDs from any other artists bought in the store is a good comparison...Then you need to compare how much an aftershow would cost you to attend...tickets for those shows costs about $15-20 per show...so you can use that for comparison's sake as well...Then you compare the costs of having a service for obtaining the best seats in the house without having to go thru TicketMaster to do so....the closest thing to that is scalping...and that "service" from a scalper would run around 50% of the face value of the TicketMaster price...so a ticket that cost $125 would cost close to $175 from a scalper, if not more...so the "service" of getting great seats without the hassle could be said to be anywhere from $40-$50....the last perk mentioned, sound checks, don't have a market value for comparison's sake...so that has to be an individual thing for each of us to determine for ourselves...

So, the npgmc is charging $100 for products and services that would normally cost you--at minimum--$115.00 on your own...at minimum....So $100 is NOT a lot to pay for the services and products the music club provides....

Only thing left, of course, is to determine whether or not YOU PERSONALLY would be able to take advantage of all these benefits, thus making it worth your while...Clearly, there are more than a few people here who did not do that simple task...

Bottom line, this is no different than those guys who walk around door to door selling coupon booklets for local restaurants and businesses..."$1,000.00 worth of savings for only $40.00!!", they all shout out...and you know what, they are absolutely 100% right, it IS $1,000 worth of savings in that booklet...so why aren't those booklets being bought up left and right??...Because SMART CONSUMERS actually go THRU the booklet to see how much, if anything, in there they would and could actually USE....and as we all know, many of us end up not spending the $40 to get $1,000 worth of products and services, because we tell ourselves that realistically, we will NOT need or have access to 85% of what's offered....

That's called being smart with your money...and I can guarantee you this..if ANYONE bought one of those booklets, then came to any one of us claiming that the sellers of that booklet ripped them off because they can't use 90% of what's offered in it, all of us would respond by saying "Then why the hell did you buy the damn book to begin with??...Didn't you bother to see what was being offered in it before purchasing it??"

Novy said:

Novy said:

u 4got rave into,not much but i would say there was at least 30 minutes of remixed music and we have at least 30 minutes of the high album.I'll take supercute,high my medallion,over what u guys have got so far.U know the fans got alot more at this time probably twice as much with the radio shows,the live tracks etc.c'mon b real how can u defend this CRAP.let it go it's ok
[This message was edited Thu May 16 16:32:53 PDT 2002 by theC]

wellbeyond said:

This is on the assumption that NPGMC members will be able to take advantage of ALL the membership perks. A world tour was mentioned at the beggining but that has now been removed from the NPGMC website.