GCS4ever said:

on the other end of your argument,if we must go there...
how come Dr. Fink was never on the cover of all the top r&b magazines and polls in the 80's?
his synth lines were some of the nastiest and funkiest on the planet!
was it because he is white?
everything is relative.

What always amazes me on here is the supposed link between technical ability and greatness.
What is so truly great about Prince on ANY instrument, but especially guitar, is that, in the words of Miles Davis, "he plays like a MOTHERFUCKER". When he plays you know it's going right through him, through his soul, and that makes it go right through the soul of anyone listening.
That's what sets Prince apart for me. When i listen to him play it makes me dig my fingernails into the palms of my hands, without realising i'm doing it.

DaX said:

U don't like Hazel, that's fine. Don't mean shit to me. I have some Al DiMeola albums myself, I dig him. Sorry you're insulted by "if P was white" shit. That's our opinions. U kinda showed your ass though with the mildly racist sounding "when he does not even look black." That's silly as hell. Sure, Prince looks black. Always has. Nobody on here gives a shit if u don't like Chuck Berry or Vernon Reid. I don't like Vernon's playing either. Never have. So what? U can keep the punk confederate flag waving shit u talking to yourself, player. Makes a brother wonder, though; What the fuck u doing on a Prince site?

It's funny how a lot of this talk on "Prince isn't shit on guitar" is only found in this section. Man, if ya'll took that shit over to the Prince Non Music section, ya'll would get ate up ALIVE! Lot of cats, including moi, can throwdown (musicians). All TYPES of music and musicians are discussed there. Ain't no (Prince sucks and so does Hendrix) shit over there. U would get chased the fuck off. Come visit sometime.

not by me

neontelephone said:

No, I know. I didn't say by all.

Dax, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but I need to put my 2 cents in here..and I'm going to be cool about it because I don't wanna get banned.

"Eddie Hazel, he ain't done shit, let's get real"

Sure he has..He influenced Prince..That's enough right there.

"Chuck Berry aint invent shit but the damn duck walk"

Sure he has..He's influenced Keith, Jimi, Ace, Rich Robinson, George Harrison, Leslie West...oh yeah and Prince..(taken from Guitar Player-Jan 2000)

GP: I like your guitar solo in "Baby Knows".

PRINCE : "I used my Tele on that thru a small amp. I was going after CHUCK BERRY on that one.

"Vernon Reid is not that good, get real"

Sure he is..He's not everyone's cup of tea and that's OK. But Prince likes him. Vernon told me he's jammed with Prince a bunch of times at Paisley and Prince wanted him on the "NEWS" CD, but it never happened.

..I like Al Dimeola too and I consider him one of my faves, but you can't compare Al and Prince. They are 2 TOTALLY different planets. Al Dimeola said in a interview his label paid MTV $1.000 to play one of his vids back in 1985 because he wanted to be sandwiched between Prince (yes Prince) and Stevie Ray because he thought they were gonna bring guitar back to the forefront. Yes Al said that.

..Prince has been on and in guitar mags, but it damn sure didn't happen in 1984 or 85. Prince wasn't even a bug on the windshield at the 80's because the guitar mags wanted to write about "more technically proficient guitarists" like Skid Row, Sleez Beez, Warrant, Firehouse, and Black And Blue. Give me a f#cking break.

I'm not trying to sound like a "know it all", and you don't have to like everything, but people need to get educated and listen to music before they go talking shit about something they absoloutely know nothing about. Thanks for the good posts B and GCS4ever.

wallysafford said:

U're reaching 4 sumthin that's not there playa! 1st of all, none of the Black Mags r (Instrument Guides). They're more or less black entertainment mags that was created out of neccesity bcuz of the lack of exposure that blacks recieved in the more White owned Mags. That was a stupid ass comparison Wally!

And Prince is underrated as a guitarist! I've seen Slash play numerous times as well as Clapton and none of them WoW me the way Prince does. I don't know if P's the best but dammit he's impressive as hell!
[Edited 6/22/05 19:02pm]

ELBOOGY said:

1.your explanation that none of the "black magazines" were instrument related,therefore,how could they put Dr. Fink on the cover,is absurd and inaccurate.
2.as far as "black magazines" being set up because the "white magazines" weren't
giving proper exposure to r & b artists is also absurd and inaccurate(michael jackson was on the cover of everything,all the time ,for a good portion of the mid-80's).
3.I don't think that Prince being underestimated on his guitar playing has much to do with race,or Prince being "black",just as much as I don't think that Dr. Fink not being on the cover of any "black" magazines in the 80's has to do with him being "white".
[Edited 6/22/05 19:16pm]
[Edited 6/22/05 19:16pm]

wallysafford said:

U Stupid! Anyway, my point is there is no Black version of Guitar,Drummer,Keyboard, or Bass magz 4 it 2 b a fair comparison. I've should have known better 2 respond 2 a Fool. I'll keep u in my prayers playaKKK!

ELBOOGY said:

you are a strange person...

wallysafford said:

Thank U!

wallysafford said:

Don't hold your breath!

ELBOOGY said:

what's up dude?
i try to be nice and you spit in my face!

i have no respect for someone like you whatsoever!

wallysafford said:

We were never on the same page, but i will check myself 4 calling u names. But your comparison still did'nt make sense!

wallysafford said:

Dr. Fink and Suffered from the same race situation that exist in the USA also. It is clear that nobody in these forums black or white has an issue with race, How could any Prince Fan? Being black guitarist myself I feel that Prince has not gotten his props as much as due dew to white and black racism. Black stations rarley play anything with rock guitars in it unless you can dance hip hop to it or you reach Mega stardom where they can't ignore you. If the world was Europe we would not be having this discussion. Many of my african friends listen to everything from Dylan to Prince top Snoop. This country's stations have on;y began to diversify the music. I see now that black stations tend to be onesided while the pop stations seem to play all styles.

Let's break the doors down and get Fink where he should be as well as Lenny on black stations. If it was not for white stations the children would never get to hear Hendrix.

bassmaniac said:

Prince has been on plenty of guitar mags, plenty of polls, gets respect from other players, so what the fuck are you people talking about?

Prince has been on more covers than alot of other guitar players, so what the fuss?

To blame it on his race is silly.

very simple: Prince gets the respect he has earned.

end of story

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Well expressed and I agree. What this entire thread also made me meditate upon:

1)

Prince is sho' nuff funki on the ax, but we shouldn't compare him with others. Comparisons can be limiting. Prince has also had some lame solos. For ex, it was a nice break, but what about that solo in 1+1+1=3 in the ONA video, and then the immediate guitar playing thereafter. It sounded like he was making noise and caught in a rut.

2)

Race and racism will remain issues to be reasoned about, but given the spirit of Prince's music, these should not have any power to cause negativity or arguing amongst Prince fams. What about the new breed ya'll?

3)

This is also coming from an instrumentalist. Peace & hugs & chicken grease!

True, but the point that GCS4ever was trying to make that all the other players he mentioned (Ernie Isley, Eddie Hazel,..and I'm going to include Blackbyrd, Kendall Jones, and Jimi Hazel) were never on the covers of the guitar mags or never in guitar polls (in the 80's) because they weren't doing anything "similar" to what a lot of the "hairband" guitar players were doing back then.(you can call it what you want to call it).. And I really can't blame the "hairband" guitarists because the magazines at that time were trying to sell issues. And they did, because at times those mags started looking like copies of "Circus" and "Hit Parader". MTV pretty much dictated what was cool back then (they still do). I always thought guys like Paul Gilbert, Tony Macalpine, Vinnie Moore and Greg Howe deserved the spotlight cuz they were technically better than the "Skid Row & Warrant" guys, but the "bands" were selling more records. Eddie Hazel and Ernie Isley were selling records and doing solo LPs but there wasn't a whole lot of cover stories and 5 page interviews on them (OK..except Ernie..he did get props when his solo LP came out from some of the guitar mags). But anyway, that's the point CCS4ever and Black were trying to make.

ELBOOGY said:

does this make sense?
once again,you show yourself to be [Flame bait snipped - luv4u].
don't try and play nice with me now,you have shown your true colors.[/b]
[Edited 6/23/05 4:28am]

SPYZFAN1 said:

I respect this and hear your perspective. It makes one respect Prince more as a guitar player coz it shows that through the whole industry shit-stem, he still stayed true 2 himself. He made it in other words; he did more than survive.

I've stayed off this topic because it's threatening to veer off the rails any second, but focusing only on Prince's guitar skills:

He's very, very good.

Good melodic sense, a master showman, excellent musician.


Too many times we fall into the trap of treating guitar-playing as if it were an olympic event or a fashion show. Faster, faster, faster is better! Oooh, look at how many strings on his guitar! Wow, that was a really complex classical piece played really loudly through a Marshall amp!! Dude, did you see how cool his hair looked?? Nice tats!!!

Technical skill is one aspect of being a good player, but not the only one.
The notes have to *mean* something. They have to convey some kind of an emotion. They have to connect to each other in meaningful ways and also have to connect with the audience in ways other than an aural assault on the eardrum. If speed is all that mattered, we can just take any piece of music and crank it up to twice, three times, four times the original speed.

Not the way to go...

In the 80's the perception of what made a great guitar player was seemingly limited to--how quickly can they play Eruption, which metal band are they a member of, and how much can they play like Stevie Ray or Yngwie, with Yngwie being the preferred model for guitar god status. These are the guys who made the cover of all the Guitar magazines; Prince at one point was considered one of the ten WORST guitarists, because of the backlash against him in the late eighties, post-Purple Rain period.


It's all rubbish. Fashions come and go, cool become cheese becomes retro.
All that matters is the music.


Everyone is different and even Steve Vai has noted that people miss out on a lot of what he's doing because they are focusing too much on the pyrotechnics.

Carlos Santana will never be as fast as some of the 80's shred demons, but when he plays, you KNOW it's him. He's got his own distinct sound. Prince does the same thing when he plays, for instance, Joy in Repetition or even Let's Go Crazy...( ). George Benson, Stanley Clarke, Henry Garza, and God Knows Who Else are all great guitarists but for different reasons.

wallysafford said:

Very true.

Prince's lead playing is overrated IMO, though still good.

His rhythm playing is underrated.

wallysafford said:

And all of them were surprised at his proficiency on a myriad of other instruments when they got him into the studio. I just wish I could have been present to see him walk into the studio as an unknown teenage musician then proceed to plant jaws firmly on the floor with his unbelievable ability. Can u imagine the reactions and conversations about the wunderkind when he left? When you look at the various documentaries like Omnibus' Prince of Paisley Park, its amazing to see the respect and awe those in the early years express when they talk about encountering the then unknown aspiring musician, be for he was PRINCE. It's also very telling when you watch the documentary that was filmed right around the Lovesexy Tour and listen to the respect and awe that professional music engineers have for his ability. Femi Jiya and the other engineer whose name escapes me now, both said they had worked with the best studio musicians in LA and London, many of whom were the best studio musicians in the world, and each said that none of them came close to Prince. People just do not realize how talented he truly is.
[Edited 6/23/05 23:46pm]

blackguitaristz said:

Yeah cuz hadn't Pepe worked with a lot of famous musicians from the 60s?? I forget.

I also remembering reading somewhere that one day at school Prince walked into the music room, picked up the guitar and wailed on it, then put it down and walked out like it wasn't nothin LOL The people in the room jaws dropped like "what was THAT?"