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PrintableFunkMistress said: Rhondab said: People are so busy trying to be colorblind that they blind themselves to sharing in the experiences of another.
I want to put this on T-shirts, billboards...and some people's foreheads. yanno!!!! "colorblindness" is bs. Somehow we can appreciate, recognize, etc the differences between the rose and the lily but if you start talking about race, people lose it. | |
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FunkMistress said: Rhondab said: People are so busy trying to be colorblind that they blind themselves to sharing in the experiences of another.
I want to put this on T-shirts, billboards...and some people's foreheads.  I want to join ya. | |
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I dont want peeps to limit themselves in ways of not talking / singing about 'race', and i really understand that people suffer from racism and discrimination. I mean, i worked at an anti-discrimination office for a year, and have seen people who became victim of racism and discrimination.
But i sincerely dont think it helps people to put emphasis all the time on their own race, colour, ethnicity, being defensive about it, or inclusive, because i think it leads to isolation, and to a feeling of being seen as 'minor'. I mean: i really consider it more constructive, postive to focus on what connects us as people, our hopes, our doubts, our expectations, our fears, our wishes.... Maybe that sounds utopian, but in the end real respect and care pays off....i think | |
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Rhondab said: FunkMistress said: I want to put this on T-shirts, billboards...and some people's foreheads. yanno!!!! "colorblindness" is bs. Somehow we can appreciate, recognize, etc the differences between the rose and the lily but if you start talking about race, people lose it.  | |
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Riverpoet31 said: I dont want peeps to limit themselves in ways of not talking / singing about 'race', and i really understand that people suffer from racism and discrimination. I mean, i worked at an anti-discrimination office for a year, and have seen people who became victim of racism and discrimination.
But i sincerely dont think it helps people to put emphasis all the time on their own race, colour, ethnicity, being defensive about it, or inclusive, because i think it leads to isolation, and to a feeling of being seen as 'minor'. I mean: i really consider it more constructive, postive to focus on what connects us as people, our hopes, our doubts, our expectations, our fears, our wishes.... Maybe that sounds utopian, but in the end real respect and care pays off....i think of course and if you know the pain that a person may feel from being discriminated against, then it seems you would understand someone just simply expressing that in a song, poem or whatever. Doesn't mean you're focused on racism BUT you're pissed at that moment and need to express it. | |
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A simple question: why you are all so negative?
I am honest, i sure have my prejudices, thats human, but ultimately colourblindness works....or maybe i should call it "respecting all of the colors of the rainbow" We can look back at the attrocities of the slavery, the jews being victims of the holocaust, the people killed during communist regimes... Sure, there are wise lessons to learn from that...but, ultimately WE create the future, TOGETHER | |
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Rhondab said: Riverpoet31 said: I dont want peeps to limit themselves in ways of not talking / singing about 'race', and i really understand that people suffer from racism and discrimination. I mean, i worked at an anti-discrimination office for a year, and have seen people who became victim of racism and discrimination.
But i sincerely dont think it helps people to put emphasis all the time on their own race, colour, ethnicity, being defensive about it, or inclusive, because i think it leads to isolation, and to a feeling of being seen as 'minor'. I mean: i really consider it more constructive, postive to focus on what connects us as people, our hopes, our doubts, our expectations, our fears, our wishes.... Maybe that sounds utopian, but in the end real respect and care pays off....i think of course and if you know the pain that a person may feel from being discriminated against, then it seems you would understand someone just simply expressing that in a song, poem or whatever. Doesn't mean you're focused on racism BUT you're pissed at that moment and need to express it. Well Said Rhonda! | |
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Youre right with that RhondaB, because its a subtle, honest expression... What i have trouble to agree with are plattitudes like "white artists doing black music are overrated", that kind of remarks are not fruitfull, negative, and definitely not constructive..... | |
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Riverpoet31 said: Youre right with that RhondaB, because its a subtle, honest expression... What i have trouble to agree with are plattitudes like "white artists doing black music are overrated", that kind of remarks are not fruitfull, negative, and definitely not constructive.....
Then don't participate. They're not constructive in your opinion; for others, it is possible to use such a discussion to constructively analyze the institutional racism which pervades our society and which automatically values some people over others. The Normal Whores Club | |
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Riverpoet31 said: A simple question: why you are all so negative?
I am honest, i sure have my prejudices, thats human, but ultimately colourblindness works....or maybe i should call it "respecting all of the colors of the rainbow" We can look back at the attrocities of the slavery, the jews being victims of the holocaust, the people killed during communist regimes... Sure, there are wise lessons to learn from that...but, ultimately WE create the future, TOGETHER I'm not negative at all. :confused: I get your point river but the music itself was called "black music" for ages and still is. Its hard to break old habits and to develop new mindsets about ANYTHING. America needs therapy when it comes to race. | |
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Maybe it matters because i am European (from the Netherlands, a quite tolerant country).
I dont know about the american situation: maybe racism and discrimination are influencing social life more in the USA. I dont have experience with your situation, so...maybe i am talking from a slightly different view | |
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Riverpoet31 said: Maybe it matters because i am European (from the Netherlands, a quite tolerant country).
I dont know about the american situation: maybe racism and discrimination are influencing social life more in the USA. I dont have experience with your situation, so...maybe i am talking from a slightly different view its a whole different ball game over here. | |
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Rhondab said: Riverpoet31 said: Maybe it matters because i am European (from the Netherlands, a quite tolerant country).
I dont know about the american situation: maybe racism and discrimination are influencing social life more in the USA. I dont have experience with your situation, so...maybe i am talking from a slightly different view its a whole different ball game over here. Exactly. | |
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prodigalfan said: vainandy said: I definately think so. Every, and I mean every black person I knew at the time was extremely pissed with "Around In The World In A Day" and furious with "Parade" and most of them dropped him after that. The white people I knew were not cool with it either but they could tolerate it more.
I understand that Prince has always been versitile in his music but the earlier rock style music was at least appealing to his black listeners. The work he did beginning with "Around The World In A Day", except for particular songs, was only appealing to a fraction of the long time fans that loved his music. Another thing that pissed many black people off was the timing of the whole thing. Prince waited until after the huge major crossover success of "Purple Rain" to completely change his style. He wasn't crazy. Had he released an album like "Around The World In A Day" or "Parade" when the majority of his listeners were black and he didn't have a large white pop audience to fall back on, he would have been tossed to the side and never even made it to the point of making a big success like "Purple Rain". Apparently it must have bothered him because then he comes up with "The Black Album". Even if it had been released when it was supposed to, the majority of his long time black fans weren't going to like this album. It was funk but it was not the type of funk they loved Prince for. Then he starts trying to get back some of the black audience by adding rap and hip hop to his music. This is when a lot of the white fans started feeling alienated. This wasn't working with the black fans either because they were an age group that didn't like rap, so he started picking up even more new fans. Whether Prince meant to do it or not, he alienated both sides at some time in his career. This was definetly me. The last vinyl I bought was ATWIAD. I did go see the movie Under the Cherry Moon. That nailed it shut for me. I didn't open that coffin for about 10 years. I commend you for having a mind enough of your own to drop Prince when he started dishing out stuff that you didn't want. During that time, I was at "fam" status and anything Prince dished out, I took, simply because he was Prince. If I had been older and more mature at the time, I would have dropped Prince myself also. During that time, I was a funk junkie (and still am today  ). I did listen to the albums that followed "Purple Rain" enough for them to grow on me and my own musical tastes expanded more because of them so I do have Prince to thank for that. Would I sacrifice my tastes expanding for Prince not changing his style and continuing with more hardcore funk like his earlier work.....hell yeah, in a flash.  Andy is a four letter word. | |
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Riverpoet31 said: Maybe it matters because i am European (from the Netherlands, a quite tolerant country).
I dont know about the american situation: maybe racism and discrimination are influencing social life more in the USA. I dont have experience with your situation, so...maybe i am talking from a slightly different view You have to live and go through it to understand where people are coming from. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: You have to live and go through it to understand where people are coming from. Tell'em Vain Baby! | |
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TonyVanDam said: Ifsixwuz9 said: He wasn't raised in the suburbs of Minneapolis. He was raised in the middle class/poor black section of MN. He may live in the burbs now, but he didn't in his youth. . [Edited 4/19/05 16:37pm] CORRECTION: Prince's old high school (which no longer exist) was very racially mixed. And he did have access to black & white music even then!!! I didn't say he didn't have access to white music. I said he wasn't raised in the burbs', as the poster I quoted seemed to imply. If I recall, in the one early books written on Prince there was a quote from someone like Jimmy Jam or one of the people Prince went to high school with that said that there was a local radio station that played top 40 pop music half the day and r&B music the other half of the day. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
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vainandy said: I commend you for having a mind enough of your own to drop Prince when he started dishing out stuff that you didn't want. During that time, I was at "fam" status and anything Prince dished out, I took, simply because he was Prince. If I had been older and more mature at the time, I would have dropped Prince myself also. During that time, I was a funk junkie (and still am today ). I did listen to the albums that followed "Purple Rain" enough for them to grow on me and my own musical tastes expanded more because of them so I do have Prince to thank for that. Would I sacrifice my tastes expanding for Prince not changing his style and continuing with more hardcore funk like his earlier work.....hell yeah, in a flash. Yeah, It was about economics. CD's came out around this time and I could not see spending $12 - 15 for something I did not like. $15 was gas money FOR THE WEEK! But now that I am back and I am buying the CD's from the 1990's I realize that I missed some real gems. If I heard these songs on the radio, I would have gone out and bought the CD for sure. Emancipation, and Gold for sure! I play those all the time. But this is part of what happened to Prince's popularity among certain fan bases. AWTIAD made me and others realize that his sound may drastically change to something you may not like, so it is not a safe bet to run out and buy every thing that he puts out without hearing it first. Then, he got black balled by the record industry for his ongoing dispute with WB, and no one would play his records! . I heard Tevin Campbell's version "Shh!" all the time and thought it was ok and never EVEN KNEW PRINCE WROTE IT, until I got the Gold CD myself this past year. And of course Prince's version BLOWS IT UP!! I know Gold would have been a huge hit had "Shh!" got a single, video, and air play. You can tell by the reaction that song gets 10 years later at concerts. Really a shame how P got messed over, but he had a hand in it, and that is the music business. "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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vainandy said: The fact that a lot of people refuse to accept that Prince is black, proves that racism still exists and it can even be found deeply hidden in some people that claim to be so "liberal". Right on point.....thank you. Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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vainandy said: With all the mainstream R&B artists trying to crossover, rap was starting to get more and more airplay. It was uptempo and funky back in those days and was filling the void that these mainstream R&B artists had left. [Edited 4/24/05 12:35pm] This reminds me of the dark days of RB. Lionel Ritchie - Ballerina Girl, Kool & the Gang - Cherish, Aretha Franklin - Pink Cadillac, Stevie Wonder - The Lady in Red soundtrack,    "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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Riverpoet31 said: i think the first goal Prince had was: making music that was interesting for him, experiment with new sounds, I mean he allready achieved great commercial succes with Purple Rain, it gave him the freedom to be who he really is: a curious, openminded musician, willing to experiment and try out new things...
I totally agree with this statement.
And to end with (not to nag): Princes father was halve phillipan, halve black, Princes mother was halve black, halve italian.....so we are talkig about a multicoloured musician here trying out multicoloured music  
Come again?? "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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vainandy said: When people buy an album, they buy it because they have either heard a few songs on the radio and liked them or have bought albums from a particular artist before, enjoyed them, and are expecting more good music for their enjoyment. When the average person buys an album, they buy it to enjoy, dance, party, or whatever else they want to do with it. They don't want to sit around and "analize" a record and say "Oh, that's groundbreaking stuff". They also could care less about someone "developing into an artist". The same way Prince makes music that he personally likes, consumers buy music that they personally like. Consumers buy what is enjoyable to their ears and if they don't like it, they don't buy any more of that artists' material. I stuck around for some of it to grow me but I sure as hell can't fault other people for not buying what they don't like. It's their hard earned money and money is too hard to come by to just throw it away on music they don't like just because a particular artist wants to get all "creative". They also are not obligated or owe it to Prince to "stick around until they start to like it" just because he's Prince. They are consumers and not spending their money on it is also a way of expressing dissatisfaction for a product. Thank you VainAndy!  you totally "get it". You are also pretty cute! Smart and cute.... I am hearing that song by the Jets playing in my head again.
 "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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prodigalfan said:
AWTIAD made me and others realize that his sound may drastically change to something you may not like, so it is not a safe bet to run out and buy every thing that he puts out without hearing it first. Beginning with "Around The World In A Day", each album seemed to be one disappointment after another. I remember around the time of the release of "Sign O The Times", a good friend of mine and I used to joke and clown about going to the record store and asking the clerk if we could listen to a sample of Prince's new album before we bought it. That crazy fool actually asked the clerk if he could hear it first and also asked if he could get a refund on "Parade". The store clerk just laughed at us and said "he has been putting out some messed up shit lately hasn't he". Andy is a four letter word. | |
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prodigalfan said: vainandy said: With all the mainstream R&B artists trying to crossover, rap was starting to get more and more airplay. It was uptempo and funky back in those days and was filling the void that these mainstream R&B artists had left. [Edited 4/24/05 12:35pm] This reminds me of the dark days of RB. Lionel Ritchie - Ballerina Girl, Kool & the Gang - Cherish, Aretha Franklin - Pink Cadillac, Stevie Wonder - The Lady in Red soundtrack, Oh, there was some horrible music going on in the mid to late 1980s. Funk had practically died except for a few Prince protegees, Cameo, Zapp, The Barkays, Rick James, and Midnight Star (which weren't as strong as they used to be) and a few female newcomers like Madame X. That's when I first started getting into underground house music because I was going through funk withdrawal. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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prodigalfan said:
Thank you VainAndy! you totally "get it". You are also pretty cute! Smart and cute.... I am hearing that song by the Jets playing in my head again.
Thank you darlin'. I bet you're pretty hot yourself. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: This reminds me of the dark days of RB. Lionel Ritchie - Ballerina Girl, Kool & the Gang - Cherish, Aretha Franklin - Pink Cadillac, Stevie Wonder - The Lady in Red soundtrack, Oh, there was some horrible music going on in the mid to late 1980s. Funk had practically died except for a few Prince protegees, Cameo, Zapp, The Barkays, Rick James, and Midnight Star (which weren't as strong as they used to be) and a few female newcomers like Madame X. That's when I first started getting into underground house music because I was going through funk withdrawal. | |
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vainandy said: You have to live and go through it to understand where people are coming from. i've been on the receiving end of some racial hatred simply because i'm white. does that count? | |
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XxAxX said: vainandy said: You have to live and go through it to understand where people are coming from. i've been on the receiving end of some racial hatred simply because i'm white. does that count? It sure does. Prejudice is prejudice regardless of the color. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: It sure does. Prejudice is prejudice regardless of the color. | |
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prodigalfan said: vainandy said: With all the mainstream R&B artists trying to crossover, rap was starting to get more and more airplay. It was uptempo and funky back in those days and was filling the void that these mainstream R&B artists had left. [Edited 4/24/05 12:35pm] This reminds me of the dark days of RB. Lionel Ritchie - Ballerina Girl, Kool & the Gang - Cherish, Aretha Franklin - Pink Cadillac, Stevie Wonder - The Lady in Red soundtrack, | |
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