So.

Do you think the song suffers from missing the original long intro and outro?

Man, this is what I love about boots! They allow you to view a musician taking a song and play with it differently than they did in the studio.

To me, the 1st Avenue version of Strange Relationship is amazing for that long instrumental intro, it helps me imagine the song as it would have been when released on 1999, when Prince still took time on a song and gave it enough space to breathe.

And that messy sound at the end, when he goes into 'squirrel meat'-mode...



Sometimes I am sad because Prince sees his legacy in such a different way as his fans do. We; completists, him; edit-ist.

Is that one of the new NPGMC downloads I've read about but haven't had time to check out, yet?

I better go there right now. See ya later.

HamsterHuey said:

I tend toview it more as...

Him: Owner ; We: Wish

i'd at least like it if they did what tony visconti did on the recent bowie live reissues (yeah, i know, another bowie comparison - it's my schtick, ok? ) and talked about how the official recordings are different than the boots floating around, and why they made the editing decisions they made for the official releases. at least it puts the decisions in a certain kind of perspective that is very much appreciated by fans. of course, i'm sure prince's/npgmc's rationale is that they don't owe us a thing, and that we shouldn't have heard the bootleg version anyway.

Anxiety said:

The thing is, great for him he has now a firm grip on stuff getting out of Paisley Park, as there seem to be NO outtakes circulating after 1995, but jeeeez.

I really am curious about Prince's thought-process when it comes to picking a release to keep the masses happy, then I would like to indeed hear him talk to himself when editing.

"Uhm. Long intro. No good. Need to be equal to album release and every other release these fams have. Edit
Outro. Too long. I swear. Jehova says nonono. Edit."

VE-RY curious. And why THAT song? Is there a dartboard in Paisley Park somewhere that they shoot darts to?

With titles like;

Strange Relationship (again- this time cut in half)
Glass Cutter (again)
Kama Sutra (again)

I mean; I now understand the chant IT AINT OVA! Cuz it never is.

I know I am being a bit spoiled and it's all not my call. But jeez. Jeez. And jeez. And some Jimeny Cricket.

I love the way NPGmc plays into the hands of bootleggers by ALWAYS editing releases, making the original bootleg recording even more interesting to buy for fans. Sigh. We're being milked two ways.

And yeah, yeah. I know it is MY call to be milked two ways. Good thing I am good at bending over.

I once had this dream. In it, I was sitting with Prince in a booth at a restaurant and we were talking about all these magnificent ideas I had about Paisley Park's Vault and Prince's releases.

In the dream, Prince is just being himself, sucking on a lollipop and being gently bored while checking out the waitresses ass. He drinks water, I go for coffee.

The jukebox plays U2 and Prince rolls his eyes. I come up with idea after idea and he just shakes his head. I am getting angrier and angrier, until I come up on my WORKS-idea. Which is an entire project involving EP's, every EP just containing ONE song, but in the many guises Prince has poured them over the years.

The songs I offer are Joy In Repetition and Soul Psychedelicide. Prince does not shake his head, just gently raises on eyebrow. I elaborate. Esp on Soul Psychedlicide.

One; The Revolution Jam
Two; Prince's first studio take
Three; the version he did with George Clinton
Four; a live version he just played this tour (remember, this is a dream)

But he only warms up to the idea when I pop in a house remix I did for Joy In Repetition. Well, at first I do not get a reaction but a frown and I think I have blown it again, until the waitress drops a spoon which I pick up and find a high heeled boot tapping the beat to the house remix.

I come up quickly and say; "Ha! You DO like it!" Prince just smiles.

Then I woke up.

Anxiety said:

I tend to compare it to artist painters - a painting is sometimes the result of sketches and rejected ideas - which they don't necessarily want the world to see, they just want the world to see the finished perfect article.

For Prince, his demos and live versions are like the scrappy sketches he doesn't want people to focus too much on - he'd rather people just see the finished version on the album or whatever. I think when he looks over his live recordings, he looks at them with a purist's eyes, seeing imperfections everywhere. That's why he is reluctant to release entire unedited concerts or songs.

Besides, I wonder how much Prince and the people in his organisation really know about all the studio boots and concert recordings out there. I think they are vaguely aware of it, but the extent of it would surprise them I reckon - Prince is not so focused on looking back at all his stuff as we lot are, it would probably shock him to find out to what level his back-catalogue of live material is circulating, and that we still discuss individual concerts from 20 years ago, and that these concerts are still available and new fans are discovering them for the first time.

metalorange said:

LoL

They are more aware than you think. He always has been. There is just not so much he can do about them. Which makes me very happy; Prince is every compeltist's nightmare.

For instance; knowing the imperfect Purple Rain and I Would Die 4 U only makes me cherish the album version more, becuz in these instances he made the right decisions.

And to say a fan needs the original recording of It's Gonna be A Beautiful Night is saying that some people like to eat sugarcubes without the coffee. It's sweet, but you know it will hurt. In this instance also; it is nice to have heard it, but somehow I like the album version better.

I can go on about all the weird edit choices Prince made in our eyes; I am sure all those edits were totally legit in his eyes; I do not dispute that.

I just wish that in some instances he had someone around him saying 'is that wise, Prince?', like he had WB back in the day. Sure they kept him from releasing his dreams, but they sure made him reconsider some of his moves.

By now the mentor/pupil relationship between them is over, but still; a WB-ish second opinion would be nice. Prince should not be his own devil's advocate.

i wanna paint this on a billboard and post it across from paisley park, or 3121, or rainbow brite manor, or wherever the hell he is these days.

Anxiety said:

Moving swiftly back to the subject at hand (Strange Relationship)

Is this version any different or better than the circulating boot ?

(PLEASE NOTE SMARTASS STARBASS - I AM NOT SOLICITING BOOTLEGS WITH THIS QUESTION )

Okay, so I just went to NPGMC and bought some of the new tracks, incl. Strange Relationship. I definitely miss the long intro because it has a funky beat. Now it starts quite abruptly. And I've always disliked fade-outs. Not just on Prince songs. But certainly Prince has a good record of his songs having conclusions.

The sound is good, though. I guess I'll put this one on my /Prince B-Sides 1998-2005 CD-R collection.

1. Wasted Kisses (3:00)
2. Prettyman (4:26)
3. Beautiful Strange (4:55)
4. One Song (Edit) (3:28)
5. 2045 Radical Man (6:36)
6. CyberSingle (2:45)
7. When Will We B Paid? (4:09)
8. NPG In This Funky House/All The Critics Love U In Paris (Bataclan) (11:05)
9. Controversy (Hawaii) (6:06)
10. Magnificent (4:42)
11. Purple House (3:39)
12. The United States Of Division (6:20)
13. Silver Tongue (Demo) (4:55)
14. Glass Cutter (4:39)
15. Strange Relationship (Live) (4:41)

HamsterHuey said:

Maybe it's the song he had in his head when he woke up that morning?

Maybe he figures it expresses the best where he is currently at emotionally?

Maybe he realized that it was a mistake not to release it as a single back in 1987 and he figures better late than never, only releasing the old album version now wouldn't do, so we get a previously unreleased live version instead?

Just suggestions...

HamsterHuey said:

Some edits are indeed good. Personally, I prefer the released edit of The Beautiful Ones to the outtake. Because in the outtake, he says "girl", but the released version doesn't address any particular sex, so I can identify a lot better with that version.

maybe, just bloody maybe, prince listened to the fucking boot himself! he might have just been sat around listening to a soundboard boot of it and thought "hey thats cool" cut it up on protools and sent it to an administrator and said "post this on the download store as a single" and thats it

personally i think if prince started explaining the odd thing people would instinctively get more annoyed when he doesn't explain things they want to hear.

ps isn't the JW bashing REALLY old by now?

softandwet said:

Maybe. It is not like the entire thread is dedicated to that subject. I think little nudges are allowed.

Huey, I'm so glad you've brought up this issue - it's something which I've been thinking about recently (and been meaning to post. Glad you did cos at least I might get a response now )

I've read countless interviews where Prince says "Time is a trick" or that he doesn't look back, only forward etc.. But I wonder how Prince really views his legacy??

My guess is that he is extremely proud of his work - hell, he's only just come off the back of a Greatest Hits tour (which also happened to be his most commercially-successful so far - go figure). He's also got that (much-deserved) 'arrogance' of someone who knows they're the shit; he's unique, a one-off, a genuine one-of-a-kind artist. (Nobody needs me to spell out why).

He's also described his songs as his 'children'. Anyone remember that interview where he stated he loved them all equally?

But his actual attitude to his work really puzzles me. He seems VERY self-assured when it comes to talking about himself. But when it comes to his canon of work, he sometimes seems detached. For all we know, it could be just another piece of the Prince 'puzzle' - another part of the mystique. For all we know he could be running up & down Paisley Park in his lil' Cuban heels brandishing a CD-R of his latest song and waving it in everyone's face saying "Listen to this you MF's!!!". Or maybe he just feels "Well, that's the best I could do. Like it or leave it". But for someone who does seem so very proud of himself, and I admire that, he doesn't seem particularly bothered about his legacy.

Take, for example, the newer fans who have climbed on board within the last 12 months. If someone had told me two years ago what 2004 would entail - the tour, the album, the media recognition, the personal satisfaction as a fan watching all this - I never would have believed them. And I certainly wouldn't believe that the Org would be flushed with brand-new fans eager to find out all-things Prince. (I wonder how many people joined the Org after 'N.E.W.S.'???). It's been wonderful to witness and a trip, indeed.

The reason I say all that is because you'd think Prince - often quoted as saying he'd like to be "No 1 at the bank" - would JUMP on this opportunity to re-release his previous recordings. The demand hasn't been this high for years. That's why I'm glad to see the recent downloads - and relieved I became a fan when I did (93/94) - just before the 'dark' years of his career. To become a fan now and not be able to get my hands on music which has become so dear to me - but is no longer available - Christ, I'd hate it. So weird choices they may be but it's a start, I suppose. I just think there are far more sought-after tracks which people want (but probably won't be available until he sorts out his issue with Warner Bros. A bit of a catch-22 situation). But, ultimately, it's a win-win situation - Prince gets his masters, we get our hands on his music. Only time will tell, I suppose. But - for someone often described as a musical genius and a huge inspirations - I feel its such a waste, sometimes.

Ultimately, I only hope Prince realises just how much a legacy he has created. I think he does - I just think he has a weird way of showing it. I just hope it isn't left up to a huge cult of fans, critics and artists to ensure that legacy is properly treated.

So, the D/L that they're offering is only 4:41 in length??? That's a considerable amount to cut off, seeing as how it's really over 13 minutes!!! I guess my next question is whether or not it's edited (i.e. "I bet u wish this was a muthafuckin' movie...", etc...). Any "swear" words, anybody? Regardless, thank GOD for boots (and I ain't talkin' about the ones made for walkin')!!!!!

onenitealone said:

I know he does; as he is awfully content creating the mistique surrounding his famed Vault material. The Crystal Ball release was just a showcase of what he's got in store.

My curiosity about it all is that I am still baffled about the high quality stuff he lets go untouched over the stuff he did release. I am purely talking vault material now, not his latest jams.

I know his attitude towards fans is 'take it or leave it' but I wonder to what he extent he realises his attitude is playing right into the bootleg-producers cards!

I mean, I still chose the original Joy In Repetition over the released one. And I am sure he realises that when a crowd chants the word "Soul Psychedelicide" back to him while playing JIR live, most these people also own the actual song "Soul Psychedelicide" in one guise or the other and this is why they sing it louder than anything else.

Prince's attitude towards the release of his music is totally catering to his own wishes. If he does something that is requested by fans (piano album/vaulted material release) he HAS to give it his own spin; he's funny that way. I sometimes think Janet Jackson's Control is all about him, hehehe.

Maybe one day he will realise that his vaulted (un-edited) material could live a seperate excistence next to his latest jams without biting eachother. Kewl vault material would only help breathe live into the mistique he still loves to cultivate himself, even though maybe he uses different tactics.

alexnvrmnd said:

I do not want to promote bootlegs in any way with my next remark, but I have to say again that the edited material he releases only makes me love the original bootlegged material more.

I only wish Prince would not show so much disdain to the fans that collect boots. Often they are the ones that also buy EVERY official release five times for their collection.
I wish Bjork could explain to him that bootleg-collectors are the bomb. Her official site even has a list of boots.

I mean; "If U can't beat 'm; join 'm! Slammin'!"

HamsterHuey said:

perfect.

HamsterHuey said:

1996:
The Most Beautiful Girl In The World (Mustang Mix '96) (4:25)
Sarah (2:50)

Say, I just realized... The boots end at the same time the NPG was disbanded.

isn't there post 95 stuff on the work boot set? i'm sure there is...?

Ok here's what I think about Prince these days....a great quote from Conan O'Brien which kinda says it all:

"If you apply the must-succeed-every-time standard to a creative thing, you ruin it."

I think Prince's upmost perfectionism is both to his credit and detriment...he's obsessed with removing the mistakes, inconsistencies, whatever you want to call them, which can give so much CHARACTER to a piece of work. What he sees as not worthy of his stamp of approval, so many other artists might put out in a heartbeat.

So what we end up with is a very SINGULAR vision, which doesn't allow for a lot of interference from other sources than himself or immediate circle. It's music created from a life in a bubble. As a fan of Prince, you either see this as a good thing or a bad thing or something in between....I go for the latter, personally...no one gets it right ALL THE TIME.

I think to make himself more appealing to a lot of music appreciators, he should hang out with the current crowd of REAL musicians of today like Bjork, Beck etc...to get in touch with that spirit of making something really striking and different and uncompromising, yet in touch with the youth culture. After all he IS still making pop music, right?

P.S. Huey your dream sounded awesome. I have similar dreams like that...funny shit.

scififilmnerd said:

Okay, VIRTUALLY no outtakes then.

mrdespues said:

Oh well, I had Prince play me songs of which I even remember the titles (The Executive, which was a very hardcore funk) and dreams in which Prince went out for a beer with me. LoL

so what IS this Strange Relationship version? the Dream Factory version edited....or?

alexnvrmnd said:

You better believe there ain't no m*****n' curse words in this house anymore!!
I keep thinking that maybe one day the pendulum will swing the other way and he'll not find cursing such a damnation anymore. (Hell, if he gave up the symbol, you never know!)