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Reply #30 posted 02/09/05 2:38pm

PurpleKnight

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Aww my thread got one of Zel's classic incomprehensible ramblings. I feel so honored. touched
The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.

"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism."
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Reply #31 posted 02/09/05 3:40pm

KAB

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LovesexyIsThe1 said:

OdysseyMiles said:

What's so suspicious about it? The emphasis was put on the father and the Son. It's quite simple, really. Dude couldn't find anything to rhyme with Holy Spirit,lol. I'm sure he recognizes God's active force, though not in a Trinitarian way.

Can't have a spiritual life without the spirit.


Absolutely NOT!!!

and musically cohesive.

Musically (not lyrically), it could give Lovesexy a run for it's money, but it still doesn't put TRC in my favorite top 10.


TRC beats Lovesexy hands-down on both music and lyrics.

Lovesexy solid - Glam Slam, Dance On and Positivity are hardly solid either musically or lyrically. And thats A THIRD of the album and I'm being generous not adding When 2 R in love and I wish U heaven.

Rose-tinted glasses are added when some people talk of "classic" Prince lyrics circa the 1980s.
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Reply #32 posted 02/09/05 6:43pm

LovesexyIsThe1

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KAB said:

Rose-tinted glasses are added when some people talk of "classic" Prince lyrics circa the 1980s.

And apparently you're wearing them now.

stoned say no to crack, my friend.

You have your opinion and I have mine. TRC can't hold a candle to the beloved Lovesexy!
Lovesexy Funkateer
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Reply #33 posted 02/09/05 8:09pm

bodank35

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emesem said:[quote]






"Every time I watch the other people news "...

Other people's news??? is this the opposite of YOU people???



YES
Every time I watch the other people news, I see a false picture of myself, another one of u. They try 2 tell us what we want, what 2 believe. Didn't that happen in the Garden, when somebody spoke 2 Eve? But I'm willin'....
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Reply #34 posted 02/10/05 3:08am

meow85

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Heiress said:

TheBigBang said:



Well, I would. And I would go so far as to say it's the best thing he's done this century. I'd also like to see him top it...this century.


He's come full-circle from "Controversy" on TRC. It's the end of a spiritual journey.

Yes, I'm very eager to hear what he'll come up with next as a spiritual statement, after the nostalgia-laden "Musicology."

One's spiritual journey should not end until you die, and last I check, Prince was still alive and kicking.confused
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #35 posted 02/10/05 9:53am

Rhondab

CalhounSq said:

::popcorn:: pc



ok, there goes my tea...you crack me up LOL!!!! I was thinking the same thing though...here it comes...again!!
[Edited 2/10/05 9:57am]
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Reply #36 posted 02/10/05 10:39am

XxAxX

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MendesCity said:

emesem said:

Were should I start?

"The Wise One who understood the law that was handed down from God long ago
reflected the true meaning 2 his woman every day
and she surrendered her discerning of it in2 his care and keeping
4 she trusted he would lead in the right way.
Her children in subjection 2 her, she subjected 2 the Wise One,
and the Wise One in subjection 2 the only begotten one,
all - 4ever in subjection 2 God"

hmmmm let me get this straight...the woman cant interpret God's word for herself. She must "surrender" it to her man...the children are subjected to her and she to her man and the man to god...Does this sound like the Prince you grew up with????

"Holocaust aside, many lived and died
But when all truth is told
Would u rather b dead or b sold? "

What is this supposed to mean...my people suffered worse than yours?...what are we talking about here..compartive atrocities??? whats the point???

"Sold 2 the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait."

Huh?....


"Every time I watch the other people news "...

Other people's news??? is this the opposite of YOU people???

"There's a theocratic order now
This is how it's gonna b
If u wanna b with me
Ain't no room 4 disagree "


Interesting....so we're gonna switch one oppressor for another? The Taliban was a theocracy..they also have one in Iran...its not pretty. "room 4 disagree" is one of the few things that make this country great

"First of all, the term "black and white" is a fallacy. It simply is another way of saying "this or that". Let's examine the term "this or that" in its ultimate form which is: "this" means the truth or "that which is resistant 2 it. When a minority realizes its similarities on a higher level- not just "black"- but PEOPLE OF COLOR, and higher still "INDIGENOUS", and even higher still, "FROM THE TRIBE OF.", and yet higher- the "RAINBOW CHILDREN". When this understanding comes, the so-called minority becomes a majority in the wink of an eye. This action will cause a Reaction or Resistance. The source of this Resistance must b banished as it is in direct conflict with the initial action. It cannot be assimilated, 4 its very nature is resistance. In other words, ONE CANNOT SERVE 2 MASTERS. U r either "this" or "that" which is not "this". "

So if all the "Rainbow Children" become a majority then who is left to be the "minority"? Who exactly is being "banished" here? You are either with us or against us?....compare with the message of LoveSexy, PartyUp etc...

Those are the most obvious examples but the whole thing reeks of moral superiority and condemnation of that which he doesnt agree with....
[Edited 2/8/05 18:09pm]


Seriously, thank you for nailing the reasons the lyrics on this CD have always left a bad taste in my mouth! And it's a shame, cuz some of the music is pretty yummy.



ditto.
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Reply #37 posted 02/11/05 2:06am

Heiress

meow85 said:

Heiress said:



He's come full-circle from "Controversy" on TRC. It's the end of a spiritual journey.

Yes, I'm very eager to hear what he'll come up with next as a spiritual statement, after the nostalgia-laden "Musicology."

One's spiritual journey should not end until you die, and last I check, Prince was still alive and kicking.confused


"A spritual journey," vs. HIS spritual journey.

Not the same thing. confused

One can have many spiritual journeys.

Then again, not everyone spends his/her life endlessly searching, without finding. He's found something here, and he'll find other things.
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Reply #38 posted 02/11/05 7:57am

NPGman

musicman said:

TheBigBang said:



Well, I would. And I would go so far as to say it's the best thing he's done this century. I'd also like to see him top it...this century.



I fully agree with you. I think he got his musical mojo back on this. He did what art is supposed to do-- make you think. Some people will not like it, some will. Hell, some people may hate it to high heaven, but we're here still talking about it years later.

I felt this is one of his best albums.


Let me remind everyone about an album called CONTROVERSY!!!! Its that very title that put P on the map as far as his political/racial edge. Eminem uses it, Marilyn Manson uses it....shock lyrics in front of slammin beats, TO GET YOUR ATTENTION. You can spin the lyrics anyway YOU want...it still makes you go out and buy it. For years, you peeps that COMPLAINED that his music was too generic, too simple, too manufactured....ISNT THIS THE INNOVATIVE SHIT you were looking for?? Some of you(you know who you are), will just complain because its the only way that your wack-ass view of life, will EVER be recognized. This DEFINITELY put P back on the map and talked about endlessly.
"If you wanna feel the FUNK....then you have to know the SOUL!!!"-----(Up and Down...just like a seesaw, Back and Forth...oh girl I'm fallin)
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Reply #39 posted 02/11/05 8:09am

purplecam

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I didn't agree with some of the things he said in a couple of songs but that didn't stop me from enjoying the album. It just made me stronger in my convictions.
I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that
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Reply #40 posted 02/11/05 10:38am

XxAxX

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ps: the music on this album absolutely rox
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Reply #41 posted 02/11/05 10:45am

emesem

FunkMistress said:


For example, the "dem devil come dressed as light" lyric. Some folks have been so determined to make that into a somehow racist lyric. I'm not even a Christian and I know that Biblical teachings are full of references to the devil disguising himslef as goodness and light in order to deceive people. It's sad to hear some people try to twist this into something against white folks.


to bad prince doesnt see that the "devil dressed as light" is actually larry graham and his JW crew....
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Reply #42 posted 02/11/05 10:49am

OdysseyMiles

emesem said:

FunkMistress said:


For example, the "dem devil come dressed as light" lyric. Some folks have been so determined to make that into a somehow racist lyric. I'm not even a Christian and I know that Biblical teachings are full of references to the devil disguising himslef as goodness and light in order to deceive people. It's sad to hear some people try to twist this into something against white folks.


to bad prince doesnt see that the "devil dressed as light" is actually larry graham and his JW crew....


Here, you dropped this...

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Reply #43 posted 02/11/05 12:07pm

Ifsixwuz9

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LovesexyIsThe1 said:

KAB said:

Rose-tinted glasses are added when some people talk of "classic" Prince lyrics circa the 1980s.

And apparently you're wearing them now.

stoned say no to crack, my friend.

You have your opinion and I have mine. TRC can't hold a candle to the beloved Lovesexy!



Seriously though, if Prince broke down all the lyrics to Lovesexy and it turn out to be full of conservative Christian views very cleverly disguised would you change your mind about the album?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later.
-Miles Davis-
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Reply #44 posted 02/11/05 12:22pm

Soulchild82

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emesem said:

FunkMistress said:


For example, the "dem devil come dressed as light" lyric. Some folks have been so determined to make that into a somehow racist lyric. I'm not even a Christian and I know that Biblical teachings are full of references to the devil disguising himslef as goodness and light in order to deceive people. It's sad to hear some people try to twist this into something against white folks.


to bad prince doesnt see that the "devil dressed as light" is actually larry graham and his JW crew....


Dude give me a break. The only reason you dont like TRC is because Prince is a JW and you cant stand it. Maybe if he was a satanist you'd be cool with that. But heaven forbid him talk about Christ and the father. Once again Larry is the scapegoat. the guy plays basson two song and the whole lp is his fault. Plus your grounds for dissing the lp above are due to hyper sensitivity and serious knitpicking. the music on this thing was amazing. besides you still bought it right?
"Thinking like the Keys on Prince's piano, we'll be just fine"
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Reply #45 posted 02/11/05 12:26pm

JediMaster

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I've spoken at length about my interp of the lyrics on TRC, so I won't bore y'all with that again.

One thing I will repeat is my opinion that the lyrics to TRC are some of the strangest, obtuse ones of his career. To try to say with any kind of conviction that you KNOW what Prince was trying to say on some of these tracks is just foolish. They are open to interpretation probably more than any other album (with the possible exception of Lovesexy). Hell, the whole thing reads more like some sci-fi epic than it does a religious diatribe. Prince is myth making like he does on MOST of his albums, so its going to be viewed differently than most of his stuff. I really think that the average person, not knowing Prince is a JW, would probably find this the equivilant of watching David Lynch's adaptation of Dune without having read the novel: "well, that sure was neat, but I have no idea what its about".
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #46 posted 02/11/05 12:34pm

Soulchild82

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JediMaster said:

I've spoken at length about my interp of the lyrics on TRC, so I won't bore y'all with that again.

One thing I will repeat is my opinion that the lyrics to TRC are some of the strangest, obtuse ones of his career. To try to say with any kind of conviction that you KNOW what Prince was trying to say on some of these tracks is just foolish. They are open to interpretation probably more than any other album (with the possible exception of Lovesexy). Hell, the whole thing reads more like some sci-fi epic than it does a religious diatribe. Prince is myth making like he does on MOST of his albums, so its going to be viewed differently than most of his stuff. I really think that the average person, not knowing Prince is a JW, would probably find this the equivilant of watching David Lynch's adaptation of Dune without having read the novel: "well, that sure was neat, but I have no idea what its about".




very true. only prince (if he even knows) could tell you what all that stuff realy means. And Personally I've never seen an interview in which he explains the LP.
"Thinking like the Keys on Prince's piano, we'll be just fine"
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Reply #47 posted 02/11/05 12:35pm

Ifsixwuz9

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JediMaster said:

I've spoken at length about my interp of the lyrics on TRC, so I won't bore y'all with that again.

One thing I will repeat is my opinion that the lyrics to TRC are some of the strangest, obtuse ones of his career. To try to say with any kind of conviction that you KNOW what Prince was trying to say on some of these tracks is just foolish. They are open to interpretation probably more than any other album (with the possible exception of Lovesexy). Hell, the whole thing reads more like some sci-fi epic than it does a religious diatribe. Prince is myth making like he does on MOST of his albums, so its going to be viewed differently than most of his stuff. I really think that the average person, not knowing Prince is a JW, would probably find this the equivilant of watching David Lynch's adaptation of Dune without having read the novel: "well, that sure was neat, but I have no idea what its about".



Ha! That comparison to "Dune" is the best analogy I ever read about TRC. I hated "Dune" for just those reasons. TRC is ok, some of the music is freakin' brilliant but if I were new to Prince or just a casual fan I wouldn't know what the heck he was going on about for more than half of the album.



.
[Edited 2/12/05 18:52pm]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later.
-Miles Davis-
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Reply #48 posted 02/12/05 1:03am

Heiress

Ifsixwuz9 said:

JediMaster said:

I've spoken at length about my interp of the lyrics on TRC, so I won't bore y'all with that again.

One thing I will repeat is my opinion that the lyrics to TRC are some of the strangest, obtuse ones of his career. To try to say with any kind of conviction that you KNOW what Prince was trying to say on some of these tracks is just foolish. They are open to interpretation probably more than any other album (with the possible exception of Lovesexy). Hell, the whole thing reads more like some sci-fi epic than it does a religious diatribe. Prince is myth making like he does on MOST of his albums, so its going to be viewed differently than most of his stuff. I really think that the average person, not knowing Prince is a JW, would probably find this the equivilant of watching David Lynch's adaptation of Dune without having read the novel: "well, that sure was neat, but I have no idea what its about".



Ha! That comparison to "Dune" is the analogy I ever read about TRC. I hated "Dune" for just those reasons. TRC is ok, some of the music is freakin' brilliant but if I were new to Prince or just a casual fan I wouldn't know what the heck he was going on about for more than half of the album.


IMHO, the safest interpretation is probably going back to his previous albums for clues. Which is why I think TRC is a fan album. And sadly enough, half of his fans don't get that! confused TRC is for them!
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Reply #49 posted 02/13/05 6:12pm

meow85

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Heiress said:

meow85 said:


One's spiritual journey should not end until you die, and last I check, Prince was still alive and kicking.confused


"A spritual journey," vs. HIS spritual journey.

Not the same thing. confused

One can have many spiritual journeys.

Then again, not everyone spends his/her life endlessly searching, without finding. He's found something here, and he'll find other things.

My point exactly. As long as he lives, he'll keep finding more.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #50 posted 02/13/05 6:16pm

meow85

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JediMaster said:

I've spoken at length about my interp of the lyrics on TRC, so I won't bore y'all with that again.

One thing I will repeat is my opinion that the lyrics to TRC are some of the strangest, obtuse ones of his career. To try to say with any kind of conviction that you KNOW what Prince was trying to say on some of these tracks is just foolish. They are open to interpretation probably more than any other album (with the possible exception of Lovesexy). Hell, the whole thing reads more like some sci-fi epic than it does a religious diatribe. Prince is myth making like he does on MOST of his albums, so its going to be viewed differently than most of his stuff. I really think that the average person, not knowing Prince is a JW, would probably find this the equivilant of watching David Lynch's adaptation of Dune without having read the novel: "well, that sure was neat, but I have no idea what its about".

hmmm
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #51 posted 02/13/05 6:17pm

chiltonmusic

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PurpleKnight said:

I've seen a lot of ppl say The Rainbow Children lyrics are discriminatory or hateful, but I've never gotten that.

What's so hateful or wrong with them?

I'm agnostic, but I don't see anything particularly offensive about them.



Nothing at all. I think that this is an album where Prince sort of drew his line in the sand and let people know exactly what his thoughts were on God and how his faith has shaped his understanding.

Well I don't need to tell you that alone is going to make fans but also enemies. As long as his thoughts about God were generic and non specific he was fine. But as soon as he let them take shape he was hateful. Really I think that is bullshit myself. I love the lyrics and appreciated the deeper aspects of his faith coming to the front!!!

Peace
THE CARDINAL HAS SPOKEN!!!
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Reply #52 posted 02/14/05 9:52pm

GaryMF

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I have not listened to TRC. I heard it had lyrics that were prejudiced.

And from what people quoted on here, there seems to be some truth to it, not to mention intolerance and possible sexism.

The "Holocaust aside" line is extremely insensitive ... you can't really put the murder of millions of people "aside". Ditto with the better to be dead than sold line...if he really believed that, that means he'd rather not be alive himself cuz his ancestors would be dead.
rainbow
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Reply #53 posted 02/15/05 1:01am

Heiress

meow85 said:

Heiress said:



"A spritual journey," vs. HIS spritual journey.

Not the same thing. confused

One can have many spiritual journeys.

Then again, not everyone spends his/her life endlessly searching, without finding. He's found something here, and he'll find other things.

My point exactly. As long as he lives, he'll keep finding more.


It's not necessary that one hop from one extreme to the other, either. You can understand deeper dimensions within the same belief system, see things from different angles.

A lot of this comes from time & experience.
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Reply #54 posted 02/15/05 7:53am

kdj997

MYSTERY SOLVED!!!!! That's why TRC gets a lot of hate because some white people think it's "racist". HA! What a joke. I think it's a great album. Before any minorities respond saying they don't like the album let me say that nothing is black and white. Just because some white people may discount the album because they feel offended that wouldnt be the only reason someone wouldn't like it.
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Reply #55 posted 02/15/05 8:12am

OdysseyMiles

GaryMF said:

I have not listened to TRC. I heard it had lyrics that were prejudiced.

And from what people quoted on here, there seems to be some truth to it, not to mention intolerance and possible sexism.

The "Holocaust aside" line is extremely insensitive ... you can't really put the murder of millions of people "aside". Ditto with the better to be dead than sold line...if he really believed that, that means he'd rather not be alive himself cuz his ancestors would be dead.


Maybe you should listen to it yourself before going by the posts of others.
As someone who has listened to it repeatedly, I can tell you that the "holocaust aside" line is just an expression. He's still recognizing it as a terrible senseless thing, but focusing on general life and death primarily. You also mistook the other line. He asked "when all truth is told, would you rather be dead or be sold? SOLD, to the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait. Thinkin' like the keys on Prince's piano will be just fine."
Listen and decide for yourself.
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Reply #56 posted 02/15/05 11:50am

GaryMF

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OdysseyMiles said:


Maybe you should listen to it yourself before going by the posts of others.


Well I agree that one should listen/watch something before passing judgment, which is why I said "I heard it was prejudiced" and that "based on what people said here there seemed to be some truth to that." I can't say for sure because i have not listened to it (Unfortunately many people condemn things they haven't even seen, like on some show this Repbulican was going on about how Fahrenheit 911 was all lies yet he admitted he never saw it!)

That said,
As someone who has listened to it repeatedly, I can tell you that the "holocaust aside" line is just an expression.


I don't know what you mean, it's just an expression. I've never heard that expression, and without knowing what was said before, it does seem like trivializing a major tragedy. Plus the broader context of the fact that there are groups out there going around denying the Holocaust etc. means that this "expression" is not so innocent.


He's still recognizing it as a terrible senseless thing, but focusing on general life and death primarily.


Without knowing what he said before, I don't know how he's doing the bold above.

You also mistook the other line. He asked "when all truth is told, would you rather be dead or be sold? SOLD, to the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait. Thinkin' like the keys on Prince's piano will be just fine."


I have no idea what the hell that means. But words like "displacing bloodline" do begin to sound kinda like the White Supremicist/Nazi rhetoric,

Listen and decide for yourself.


Like I said, I'm not judging, just reacting to what has been presented.

TO be honest, given what I've heard about it, and my opionion of the 90's albums, I have no interest in listening to it. I wasn't all that crazy about Lovesexy musically.
rainbow
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Reply #57 posted 02/15/05 6:32pm

NPGman

GaryMF said:

OdysseyMiles said:


Maybe you should listen to it yourself before going by the posts of others.


Well I agree that one should listen/watch something before passing judgment, which is why I said "I heard it was prejudiced" and that "based on what people said here there seemed to be some truth to that." I can't say for sure because i have not listened to it (Unfortunately many people condemn things they haven't even seen, like on some show this Repbulican was going on about how Fahrenheit 911 was all lies yet he admitted he never saw it!)

That said,


I have no idea what the hell that means. But words like "displacing bloodline" do begin to sound kinda like the White Supremicist/Nazi rhetoric,

Listen and decide for yourself.


Like I said, I'm not judging, just reacting to what has been presented.

TO be honest, given what I've heard about it, and my opionion of the 90's albums, I have no interest in listening to it. I wasn't all that crazy about Lovesexy musically.


The holocaust aside line is just as it says.....he's not saying that the Holocaust didnt happen or was irrelevant....he's saying that MOST people consider the Holocaust a true tragedy, but fail to realize that the slavery times were just as tragic. The question of, "would you rather be dead or be sold?"....think about it, the Holocaust victims were TRAGICALLY killed no doubt.....BUT, just as parallel, the slaves were stripped of their roots, family values, and MADE to be someone and something that they werent. Which was worse??? Neither.....THATS HIS POINT!! That both should be looked upon as equal as far humanity goes. At the very least, if the slaves had been killed in mass(which some were), they at least would have died as people who died with their God-given DIGNITY, not made to live as "another" man figured them to be. No disrespect intended by P or me....just take down the defensive outlook and listen to how he says it!!!
"If you wanna feel the FUNK....then you have to know the SOUL!!!"-----(Up and Down...just like a seesaw, Back and Forth...oh girl I'm fallin)
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Reply #58 posted 02/15/05 7:05pm

emesem

NPGman said:


The holocaust aside line is just as it says.....he's not saying that the Holocaust didnt happen or was irrelevant....he's saying that MOST people consider the Holocaust a true tragedy, but fail to realize that the slavery times were just as tragic. The question of, "would you rather be dead or be sold?"....think about it, the Holocaust victims were TRAGICALLY killed no doubt.....BUT, just as parallel, the slaves were stripped of their roots, family values, and MADE to be someone and something that they werent. Which was worse??? Neither.....THATS HIS POINT!! That both should be looked upon as equal as far humanity goes. At the very least, if the slaves had been killed in mass(which some were), they at least would have died as people who died with their God-given DIGNITY, not made to live as "another" man figured them to be. No disrespect intended by P or me....just take down the defensive outlook and listen to how he says it!!!


you are reading into it what you want it to say...what Prince is really saying here is clearly that slavery was worse and that being sold was worse than being gassed...and you know what? it's probably true from a shear #'s point of view taking into account how many Africans died on the way to the Americas..

the offensive thing of this is the belief that anyone (at least anyone who matters) truly minimizes what slavery meant...and the implied perception is that Jews are somehow getting more attention than they deserve...there is an ugly "jealousy" in this lyric that is a bit sick....its like P is saying lets compare attrocities and see who's people is more deserving a oscar winning movie or attention or whatever...who knows what was in his head

.....this line of thinking is totally not constructive and only leads to strengthen evil by dividing two sets of victims of the devils work...whats to stop a Native American from then jumping in and saying "whatever...my people have been practically wiped off the face of the earth..and that says what?"...

With these three little lines P destroyed a respect I built up for him 20+ years in the making...at the Celebration it drove a jewish girl to tears...part of me hopes that P would like to take them back...
[Edited 2/15/05 19:05pm]
[Edited 2/15/05 19:06pm]
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Reply #59 posted 02/15/05 7:41pm

DorothyParkerW
asCool

emesem said:

NPGman said:


The holocaust aside line is just as it says.....he's not saying that the Holocaust didnt happen or was irrelevant....he's saying that MOST people consider the Holocaust a true tragedy, but fail to realize that the slavery times were just as tragic. The question of, "would you rather be dead or be sold?"....think about it, the Holocaust victims were TRAGICALLY killed no doubt.....BUT, just as parallel, the slaves were stripped of their roots, family values, and MADE to be someone and something that they werent. Which was worse??? Neither.....THATS HIS POINT!! That both should be looked upon as equal as far humanity goes. At the very least, if the slaves had been killed in mass(which some were), they at least would have died as people who died with their God-given DIGNITY, not made to live as "another" man figured them to be. No disrespect intended by P or me....just take down the defensive outlook and listen to how he says it!!!


you are reading into it what you want it to say...what Prince is really saying here is clearly that slavery was worse and that being sold was worse than being gassed...and you know what? it's probably true from a shear #'s point of view taking into account how many Africans died on the way to the Americas..

the offensive thing of this is the belief that anyone (at least anyone who matters) truly minimizes what slavery meant...and the implied perception is that Jews are somehow getting more attention than they deserve...there is an ugly "jealousy" in this lyric that is a bit sick....its like P is saying lets compare attrocities and see who's people is more deserving a oscar winning movie or attention or whatever...who knows what was in his head

.....this line of thinking is totally not constructive and only leads to strengthen evil by dividing two sets of victims of the devils work...whats to stop a Native American from then jumping in and saying "whatever...my people have been practically wiped off the face of the earth..and that says what?"...

With these three little lines P destroyed a respect I built up for him 20+ years in the making...at the Celebration it drove a jewish girl to tears...part of me hopes that P would like to take them back...
[Edited 2/15/05 19:05pm]
[Edited 2/15/05 19:06pm]


I do agree that human tragedies; i.e. genocide, ethnic cleansing and slavery shouldn't be ranked. But in all honesty the Holocaust is looked upon as the worst thing that ever happend by the average American. Movies like the Pianist, Schindler's List and books like Elie Wiesel's Night are considered classics that should never be forgotten. Conversely, whenever someone mentions the horros of slavery, Jim Crow/racism in America or the genocide of the Native Americans most people could care less. Movies like Amistad, Bamboozled, Malcolm X, Ghost of Mississippi, Beloved etc. generate little to no interest from mass audiences. Think about the number of professional sports teams/colleges and universities that sport Native American mascots and tell me if people really give two shits about the extermination of that race of people. One of my geography professors in undergrad mentioned this phenomena and he said that he felt that white Americans (He was white himself) could relate better to the victims of the Holocaust because it was an atrocity that was committed against caucasian people. He also stated that if most of the victims had the facial features and physical make up of Palestinian/Israeli Jews, that the Holocaust would not have the same weight with people that are taught to value life along racial lines. I took a class on the Holocaust my senior year, and that professor even discussed the way slavery and the genocide of the Native Americans is swept under the rug in the U.S., but the Holocaust is considered the worst thing that ever happend. Ironically, many of the techniques used in the Holocaust to divide and conquer the Jewish community, limit their education, and race based ideologies were based on the actions Europeans used against enslaved Africans and Native Americans. Most explicitly found in education where the Germans wanted to limit schooling for Jews after grade 4, and they didnt want them to know how to read, or count over 500. That technique is lifted directly from the U.S.'s treatment of Africans, where slaves were not allowed to learn how to read or be educated BY LAW. Furthermore, schools on Native American reservations used a severely limited educational plan that was designed to keep Native Americans ignorant and powerless. Another example was the idea of cultural genocide the Germans wanted to institute against the Jews. That was modeled after the U.S. treatment of Africans and Native Americans. However, the general population does not really care about what OUR government did. The propaganda dissemenated by the German media depicting Jews in ridiculous stereotypes during the 1930's-40's was inspired by the racist comics, minstrel shows and cartoons that were dissemenated in the states before it was consindered politically incorrect. Cartoon Network still airs the racist Bugs Bunny cartoons during their annual June Bugs Marathon. These cartoons portray African Americans, Native Americans and the Japanese in a VERY negative light. But they still air them, albeit at 2 or 3 am. The point is you would NEVER see things like that peddled on American television if they showed Jews in a negative light.

The topic of ranking atrocities has caused great debate amongst scholors because many feel that other human atrocities are overlooked because they do not get the same press or garner the same interests. Based solely on sheer numbers, the holocaust was a considerably smaller and it did not all but eliminate an ENTIRE race of people in the same way that the Native Americans are nearly extinct. It's up to us to decide why we seek to justify or understand/downplay the actions of Europeans against slaves and Native Americans but then vilify the Germans. Remember this, all of the aforementioned atrocites were forms of genocide, just like the situations in Rawanda,the Sudan, Pol Pot and the Killing Fields, the conquering of the Americas etc . Also, remeber that JW's and Gypsies were VERY large targets during the Holocaust. Lastly, one major reason the Holocaust is gets so much attention is because Hitler was defeated and he was not allowed to justify his actions through history books and various forms of mass media. If Hitler had succeeded, the Holocaust would be viewed in the same way as the "Settling of America" and the "it wasn't that bad" lens we use to discuss the genocide Native Americans faced and the horrors of slavery.

[Edited 2/15/05 19:54pm]
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > What's so hateful about the Rainbow Children lyrics?