Lately i have listen Bruce Springsteen's "Tracks", a 4 CD box-set with all his B-Sides and (in his opinion) the best outtakes of his carreer (only for the "Born In The USA" album he wrote around 70 songs..). And i can't avoid the feeling that our "hero" (that's Prince) thinks too much about money and too less about the persons who, by the love they have shown by his work and consequently by buying his records (we, the fans), really gave him a chance of make his living as an artist. When i see how much Bruce has done to give his fans the music that for one reason or another wasn't available in his albums, by releasing his "Live 1975-85" box-set, the mentioned "Tracks" box-set or the more recent bonus disc on the "Essential Springsteen", with some more rarities and gems, i really think that Prince has not the same respect for us that Bruce has for his fans. When i listen to the b-sides extended versions, the extended versions of the singles and some outtakes (like the fantastics long versions of "Computer Blue" or even the "Musicology" virtual B-sides) i only think how much music made by Prince it's been wasted because only some of us with net in our houses and a lot of patient, and thanks to the people who make the bootlegs, can listen all the pearls that Prince insist in keep hidden in his vaults or whatever he call it. I don't like to buy mp3 or other similar kind of files, i don't want "compressed" music, i want the "complete" files found on the CD's!! Is Prince waiting to die in order that all his music reaches the ones who supported him along his carreer? Is he keeping the music in his "attic" for what? Waiting for the moment in which he can make as much money as he can with it? Is he not rich enough? I don't see Bruce having problems in "losing" money by releasing what fans like to have in their collections..When i think what incredibly fantastic would be Prince's own version of a "Tracks" box-set, all his b-sides in their complete versions, some alternate complete versions of songs in the albums and the best outtakes...well, any Prince fan would buy that, because i believe we would like to have nice booklets (like Bruce did...) giving us nice stories about each song and version. I would like, before i die, to be able to buy something more substantial that mp3 with low bit rates.. And i could also talk about remastered versions of his albums, and they should be done following the model of my favourite group, Orchestral Manouevres In The Dark, that even being inactive for a long time, gave his fans everything they had in the vaults for his 3 first albums and they are working now on the expanded edition of the 4th album, and i can bet that OMD don't have a fraction of the money that Prince already has and that they will not earn a fraction of the money Prince would earn with expanded editions. OMD did it by personal desire of his front man Andy McCluskey, after hearing fans opinions. Wish Prince would show the same love for his fans as we all have shown for him, always supporting his, sometimes really nuts, changes of mind. Sorry for my bitterness, but sometimes i start to think if Prince really knows what he's doing, i'm tired of his money complains...it's not by coincidence that lately my admiration for Bruce, The Beatles and U2 keeps growing and growing, seeing what all of them have been releasing to the fans while we keep waiting for some more "Crystal Ball" editions, this time hoping that each CD is not only half filled...

I think Prince likes the "prestige" of keeping something concealed from us that we all so desperately want.

If he were to release all the music in the vault, what would he have left to give us? Just the new material.

I guess he likes to keep all those oldies, as a kinda back-up.

In a first phase he should make a box set with all b-sides (complete=extended versions, no edits) and the complete extended singles versions of songs that are in the albums, that would be already enough to make available in CD all his 80's and official material (the one released in vynil). I think such a box should cover 1978-1993. And still he would have tons of material "hidden"...i think he has no excuse, after see what Bruce and OMD (and Pet Shop Boys...) did there is only one reason, Prince don't see fans as Bruce and OMD, do...if he wanted, Warner would gladely colaborate with him, not to talk about people from The Revolution and former colleagues of Prince, if he asked them...As we can see in the "Purple Rain" DVD, his old chaps miss the old days's Prince...and i miss too

prince is selfish...always has been...always will be....

Prince doesn't always release his music or whatever but he has thrown celebrations and there were YEARS of free or very cheap parties. I am a huge Prince fan and a huge Springsteen fan and I feel that I've gotten more from Prince then I have from Bruce in the way of thanks.

sosgemini said:

Yep

We get an ENORMOUS amount new music from Prince.

I understand the point of giving the fans some stuff from the vault...would be great,but i'm happy waiting for the next song or album.

thanks2joniandu said:

Well lately that's not so true.

prince gives us more than enough. And, being an even bigger fan of Springsteen, I would say don't put him on a pedestal. I've met Charles Cross, a Springsteen chronicler and he would tell anyone that Bruce's image is largely just image and that he is as money hungry as anyone. When I was younger, I needed to believe in Bruce, now I don't. I don't need heroes and I think we set them up for failure by setting them up so high.

Prince has no respect for his fans. He has released stuff from the vault before, but it has always been "creative" junk. He's been holding out on the good stuff. It exists because I've heard bootlegs.

Nice post Edu. The Springsteen comparison is just. Same die-hard sort of fan base, though much different gene pool. I'm wih you on not being receptive to mp3's. They sound like shit, no matter what the bit-rate. No doubt that the Boss puts out fan pleasing sets to make money, but it's still a wonderful commercial gesture.

Prince may have a twisted sense that releasing outtakes and old b-sides, he would be catering to the core fan, and this would somehow be selling out.

HAS BRUCE LET ANY OF HIS FANS IN2 HIS RECORDING STUDIO 4 A WEEK LONG CELEBRATION? TWICE?
HAS BRUCE PLAYED 4 HIS FANS AT THE END OF SUCH A CELEBRATION?
DOES BRUCE HAVE A WEBSITE SUCH AS NPGMUSICCLUB WHICH GIVES IT'S MEMBERS THE CHANCE 2 DOWNLOAD MUSIC OR BUY PRODUCTS?
HAS BRUCE TOURED AS OFTEN AND 2 AS MANY PLACES OVER THE WORLD 2 GIVE HIS FANS KICK ASS SHOWS?
DID BRUCE GIVE A FREE CD OF HIS MUSIC AT THESE SHOWS?
DID BRUCE PLAY IN CLUBS 4 HOURS AFTER THESE SHOWS?
DID BRUCE SOMETIMES JUST CHILL IN THESE CLUBS, GIVING HIS FANS SPECIAL ACCESS?
DID BRUCE LET HIS FANCLUB MEMBERS SIT IN DURING THE SOUNDCHECK OF ANY OF THESE CONCERTS?
DID BRUCE LET ANY OF THESE CLUB MEMBERS GO ONSTAGE DURING THE SOUNDCHECK AND LET THEM PLAY HIS GUITAR?
DID BRUCE SIT AT THE EDGE OF THE STAGE AND TALK TO THESE MEMBERS 4 HALF AN HOUR?
DID BRUCE GIVE HIS MEMBERS GUITARPICKS AFTER HIS SHOWS?
DOES BRUCE PICK A DOZEN FANS OUT OF THE CROWD TO JOIN HIM ONSTAGE DURING CONCERTS? (BESIDES ACTORS LIKE COURTNEY COX IN VIDEOS)
DOES BRUCE RELEASE RECORDS (BASICALLY) EVERY YEAR?

MY POINT IS, WE AS FANS DO STAND BEHIND OUR MAN AND HE GETS AWAY WITH ALOT OF STUPID SHIT...BUT HOLY FUCK R WE GREEDY FUCKERS!!! I AM EXTREMELY GUILTY OF THIS. I'M NEVER REALLY SATISFIED, BUT WHAT OTHER ROCK LEGEND (AND I'M NOT USING THAT TERM LIGHTLY, HE IS A ROCK LEGEND!) WOULD DO ALL THIS SHIT 4 HIS FANS? SO PERSONALLY I WANT 2 THANK HIM 4 ALL HE'S GIVEN HIS FANS...BUT I STILL WANT MORE!

Prince is probably too busy recording/touring/promoting to be thinking about his vault potential. I'm sure he'll release some more when he slows down a bit.

I think a lot of it has to do with Prince not wanting to have to deal with Warner Bros again. All the music he wrote(both released and unreleased) from 1978 to the last album he did for Warner(Chaos and Disorder) are under Warner Bros control. Prince would have to strike a deal with them which means signing some form of contract with them again. YOU KNOW Prince is not going to do that.

sosgemini said:

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A selfish artist does not open up his compound for his fans to come out and party. Has it occured to any of you that maybe he did not make any money off of Crystal Ball. It takes money to put out these projects. Perhaps we will now see some new projects with all his recent infusion of cash from the tour.

laurarichardson said:

We had to pay lots of money to get into the Paisley Park Celebrations. Crystal ball was expensive to purchase as well.

squirrelgrease said:

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Did someone put a gun to your head and make you go to the celebrations or buy Crystal Ball.

My point was if P was really selfish he would not do anything extra at all and remember it takes money to make money. P is not with a record company. It he can't generate income he would not have been able to put out anything over the last 10 years or do any parties.

Prince is still recording and releasing new music. Most recording artists start releasing live material and un-released material when their new production slows down. If Prince goes a couple of years without releasing a new album, and we're still waiting for the vault to start flowing, then I could see us bitching about this.

I am not a Bruce fan, but he has been known to come out after a concert and sit on stage to talk to fans. So I guess instead of a pre-concert, his fans got a post talk.

laurarichardson said:

No gun to my head. That would be uncool.



The Celebrations were not "extra" as you put it. They were money making ventures with massive public relations potential. There's a reason that he doesn't do them anymore. He probably didn't make enough on those $2 bottles of water and $30 shirts for non-existent albums.

By the way, ever hear of royalties?

Thank you guys, for your opinions.
I wrote this because after listening to some Bruce's "Tracks" songs and after listening to some "bootlegged" Prince mp3s, which were hardly searched and chosen from the net, i can't avoid to feel sad and angry.
A Bruce fan that wants to know what was left out of Bruce's albums, either because of artistic reasons, or space limitations or any other reason or simply wants to have in CD(digital) format stuff that was never available in CD before (B-sides as prime example) "only" has to walk to some record shop and buy "Tracks", "18 Tracks" and "Essential Springsteen" for instance, and will have acess to all B-sides, the best outtakes, some songs only released in soundtracks ("Viva Las Vegas") or albums like "We Are The World" ("Trapped") and go home and enjoying it.
Even if this Bruce fan wants to hear Bruce live doesn't need to buy several live albums (like the Rolling Stones fans lol), Bruce choosed the best moments of ten years (instead of just the best moments of one or two concerts) and put it all them together in one box-set ("Live 1975-1985"). I consider this live album the best live album ever. Why? Because when an artist performs live he never knows how good the show will be, and most of the artists decide, before a show, that they will release it as an live album, but that takes out the spontaneous effect of the performance. It's much more honest to record all shows and one day to choose the best parts, and play without thinking about if it's good enough for the record, than to decide "i will record the show tomorrow and release it next month". I don't know if people are aware but this live album of Bruce it's the only one we can call the "best performances" and not the performance of the "best songs", there is a big difference between these two concepts... I believe that Prince also records all his shows, so i hope one day he will release its own version of this approach Bruce took regarding a live album.
Is there anybody here in this forum who would not rush into a shop to buy a Prince's version of "Tracks"??? All the extended A-sides, all the extended B-sides??? Maybe much more than having new music of him i would like to have all his good music from the past! It's not yet all of it (the officially released in vynil) available in digital format (anybody knows The Beatles's "Past Masters" CDs concepts?).
I don't live in USA, i don't live in the UK, i'm a vulgar European citizen and i think, regarding my love for Prince music, that i'm not a lesser fan of him only because i was not born in those two countries. Special maxi-singles, special CD-singles and all that stuff? Unless you are American, or British, or maybe Japanese or Australian, you will never find that kind of stuff available. And those celebrations? Yes, i admire Prince on that ideia, but how many people can go to Minneapolis? With the money that it would cost me go get there i could buy all the albums Prince could make in his lifetime! (lol) And yes, i like mp3s, but made by me, from CD's that i can buy! Only then i can choose the quality of them. Files with 80 kbs?? Please...in my opinion even 128 kbs it's already too compressed, i want Prince "waving"! So many songs on his site and makes "Musicology" with less than 50 minutes at the price of 80 minutes? And then they complain that we complain that CD's are expensive! Ten songs in mp3 file for 10 Eur( 18 dollars ?), without box, without cover, without booklet? Well, he isn't doing that thinking about us, but thinking about him...Who needs money doesn't spend 1 million dollars making clips for Carmen Electra...
I love his music (and him) for more than 20 years, please don't have doubt about that, i have all his albums twice (vynil and CD), and i payed 65 Euros (!!!) in my country for "Crystal Ball" (which i liked), but sometimes, sorry, i just can't stand his "philosophy" regarding the bussiness side of his work...
Thank you for your patient in reading me!

PS: not money enough for Prince? I would be survive for the rest of my life with less than 5% (or even less, i don't have my calculator at hand...) of the money he made with only his last Musicology tour...lol

I'm not understanding how releasing or not releasing material is more respectful or less respectful to the fans. Why do you have to knock one artist just because you prefer the way another artist releases his music? There are things Prince does for his fans that Bruce doesn't do, so does that make Bruce less respectful of his fans in other areas? No, they're just different artists, different people.
Being a Prince fan is probably a lot more challenging than being a Springsteen fan, but I've always loved a good challenge.

I wish Prince realized there are fans beyond the Helsinki-Vienna-Rome axis too!

[Edited 1/22/05 23:28pm]

Newman said:

Well said.

Prince never gave me shit!
i helped to get him mansions around the world,fancy car's,an amazing wardrobe.the best women,$,paisley park studios etc...
c'mon,let's come back down to earth a bit folks.
these entertainers would either be in asylum's or playing music in dank little clubs on weekends if it wasn't for us people who buy up every product they put out.
hell,i'm a paid member for 2 years now and the npgmc has never emailed me once,about anything!
i got my musicology tour tickets at ticketmaster for christsakes!
again,Prince never gave me shit!




wallysafford

well he did lower the npgmc membership from the rediculous $100 to $25...

squirrelgrease said:[quote]

laurarichardson said:

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The Celebrations were extras because he was not promoting a CD or any product. It was something he did not have to do and his public profile was low and bad at the time I don't see what potential P.R he got out it. Only hardcore fans even no about the celebrations. If they were money making is up to debate. After all he does not appear to be doing them anymore and from all reports on this board you guys really tore up the place. My point is stop acting like this artist owes you something. He does not owe you anything but a good show for your money and nothing else.

Edu said:

I'm sorry I must have missed something. Did Bruce Springsteen, U2, et al., give away boxed sets of their vault material for free. If so please give the name of the box set and where these freebies could be gotten on cd. Also do any of these other artists perform arena sized concerts for free? If so please give the tour and year.

And this is not to say Prince has done or will do any of these things either but I'm just trying to understand what respect for fans has to do with releasing old music. It's been proven over and over again in the Prince community that all fans don't necessarily like the same thing in terms of new or old un-released material.

Newman said:

You missed one off.

DOES BRUCE HAVE FAMS WHO WANT TO SUCK HIM OFF REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE DOES?