who else was surprised to find out that it was actually an Andre Cymone(Anderson) creation, Happy New Year!

4nowneway said:

I've heard that before. I think it was mentioned in "Prince: A Pop Life" book.

erm....duh

Andre was presented with a gold album for controversy I think, as some sort of admission. By and large though, I think all the cronies who claim Prince ripped them off are just bitter losers. Number one, you would never have heard of any of those people without Prince, and if they had what it took to make it they would have done so. Sour grapes. So what, he stole a bass line here and there. That's the price of trying to ride on someone else's coattails.

Andre said Prince ripped him off on so many songs , that he wrote a lot of them or came up with the music 4 others ,if he was as talented as Prince why when he left Prince's group did no one hear of him again except for one song Dance Electric Prince wrote 4 him and to slag off Prince in every biography and how many albums did he sell if he was that talented he would have had success afterwards a touch of the green eyed monster i think
[Edited 1/1/05 15:30pm]

really, I never heard that b4, this is a first, does anyone know if its tru?

Well, it's probably true, Andre did a lot of work around Prince in the early stages, some of it uncredited. Prince was notorious for stealing riffs and ideas, it's just another way of improving really. But when you got people who do not have as complete a package as he does, well you're bound to hear gripes. It was said that he ripped off the time as well, Morris Day was given a contract in exchange for "partyup". It all comes out in the wash, aside from Jam and Lewis, none of the early circle had lasting success without Prince. And in the end, everyone benefited way more for having been involved with Prince, than he did from them. Like I said, no one would of heard of Wendy,Lisa,Morris,Dez etc..without the captain there. he was the guy with the balls and the vision. This is not meant as a defense, I mean it to set the record straight on these bitter clowns who act like Prince did them so much wrong. Come's down to egos, ego is blind.

mozfonky said:

`

I think the alleged "admission" was a gold record for Dirty Mind, not Controversy. Prince has certainly been known to help himself to other people's ideas without crediting them, but he has also let others take credit for his work. The first two Time albums were mostly him save for the voice, as were almost all Vanity 6 and Family stuff, not to mention Sheila E's initial output. There are very few artists who have hired so many of their friends and put them in the spotlight. And what happened after they achieved some degree of fame? Generally, they quickly faded. They may be talented, but that doesn't mean they know how to successfully use those chops on the pop scene. And you know, "Do Me Baby" is a Prince ballad whoever wrote it -- it is very clearly Prince derived if penned by anyone else. So whatever happened, the situation is not as crystal clear as so many former associates have said.

I wasn't surprised at all. Andre is an extremely talented man that everyone always overlooks.

Andre was around for years after he left Prince. He had three albums of his own, a side project called The Girls, and he had major success as a producer for Jody Watley. I hated to see him leave Prince's band but I don't blame him one damned bit and I would have been bitter too.
[Edited 1/1/05 20:11pm]

I don't doubt Andre was talented, a common mistake in the music business is thinking that really is important. Talent is just one piece of the puzzle. Got to have your image, management and a whole lot else to make it work. Prince was very smart about alot of things and he had an artistry that was true. I read that the music teacher for both of them claiming that Andre was more talented. Like I say, talent is a dime a dozen. Prince had it all.

Andre had the idea of a girl group before P, The Girls, P thrn got the idea for The Hookers, which became Vanity 6.

Andre must've made millions off of Jody Watley. He was secretly married to her and I believe wrote almost all her music.

Inever heard that he wrote DoMe baby.

What I dont'get is if he (andothers) claim that Prince ripped themo ff, w hy did they never do anything about it? People sue stars all the time claiming they were ripped off and a court decides.

Anniechristian2 said:

He was a producer as a matter of fact.....more of a behind the scenes guy. In the 80's he produced for Jody Watley.....

Anyway that doesnt surprise me that Andre wrote that song. If U really look at it, Prince hasnt had a real "good" hit since the 80's when he was surrounded by people like wendy,lisa, dez, andre.....

If the truth was told everyone might be really surprised.....could it be we have been giving him too much credit?

I wouldnt even be surprised if his dad didnt write alot of his stuff

strawberrydreams said:

Who ?

Aerogram said:

So true

You know why I dismiss all these tales of thievery even though they may be true?
Because Prince:
Left for New York at 18 in search of a record deal.
Was the architect behind the image the marketing of his music.
Capable of being a self-contained entity who really didn't need anyone else in the studio.
Had the faith and the vision for success on the scale of Purple Rain when no one else did.
Gave more than he got, "Jamie starr" may have been a thief but he also was very generous and quite stern in getting other people's careers off the ground.
Never stopped working, never lost his chops, was willing to reinvent himself numerous times to grow and did the homework necessary for it. Got better and better as a singer, musician, engineer,producer.
Because few of the old crew had any success without his direction, and the ones who did (jam and Lewis) give full credit to him, "it's a Prince sound".
He had the instincts to know what combinations of sex,religion,white,black would put him over the top, that is a talent seperate from music.
he did whatever it took to make it all happen, including improving on abilities he didn't really have in abundance. As a singer, his natural voice wasn't even usable until 1999 and he wasn't nearly the dancer entertainer that he became in those years. By sheer hard work he became whatever he needed to become.

All due respect to the den of talented cats he had around, Prince was singular.

mozfonky said:

Co-sign, Amen.

mozfonky said:

Everything you said is so true ,he got the recording contract from WB at a young age ,allowed to produce his own records which was unheard of at that time there was a reason for that ,it was not because he stole ideas from every other musician he worked with

There's no question about his hard work and dedication but, nevertheless, stealing is still stealing. If guys like Andre and Dez felt they were being ripped off, they had every right to split and to also feel bitter about it. And as for Andre, he was with Prince not only from the very beginning but even before his career. His mother even took Prince in when he had nowhere to stay. If it wasn't for her, no telling what would have become of Prince.

As for Prince's voice, it sounded the same before the "1999" album as it did afterwards. And as far as all the choreographed dancing goes, that's all fine and good but the real purpose of a concert is for the music, not for a "Broadway Show".
[Edited 1/2/05 16:24pm]

vainandy said:[quote]

There's no question about his hard work and dedication but, nevertheless, stealing is still stealing. If guys like Andre and Dez felt they were being ripped off, they had every right to split and to also feel bitter about it. And as for Andre, he was with Prince not only from the very beginning but even before his career. His mother even took Prince in when he had nowhere to stay. If it wasn't for her, no telling what would have become of Prince.

As for Prince's voice, it sounded the same before the "1999" album as it did afterwards. And as far as all the choreographed dancing goes, that's all fine and good but the real purpose of a concert is for the music, not for a "Broadway Show".
[Edited 1/2/05 16:24pm]Why didn't Andre get the recording contract with WB then if he was so amazing as a musician and songwriter

strawberrydreams said:

A mans biggest fans can be his biggest haters too
People never wanna give gredit where credit is do. If Prince hadnt been
sucessful and Lisa had, you'd be dismissing her talents

Aerogram said:

funny you mention the time's first two albums..i recently noticed a change in lisa's bio's over at their site...she now credits herself to contributing to writing parts of their first two albums...ive been wondering why she did that.....

i think they were all young (prince included) and were high off of the energy of the momment and things just sorta happened....nobody thought, "hey, this exact momment as i have fun and jamm with my peers, this is gonna create million dollar baby..i better claim this shit on my own)....it just happened...


and i think this whole, "well would they be as big as prince on their own?" arguement is just straight arse silly....there are probably people in the past that were far more talented then prince who's careers went nowhere..timing, cultural mood, luck all are factors...look at TTD...look at Tony Rich....gone from the media's eyes...they write, arrange and produce their own stuff.....these same people btw who screamed up and down that sells didnt mean anything a few years ago...




emoticanedit..
[Edited 1/2/05 19:22pm]

Anniechristian2 said:[quote]

vainandy said:

I think that way too much is being made of this. There is probably truth on both sides. In the course of jamming and hanging out together, I'm sure that musical hooks, phrases and the like were contributed by everyone involved. That's what's supposed to happen with a group -- they bounce ideas off one another. Someone starts and others add their "flavor" to the mix and evenutally a complete song may emerge.

The dispute in these instances can be a matter of perception. The sounds I added or the idea I came up is just one part of the final product, but to me, that's my baby, and I will tend to focus on it, and feel that the success of the final piece is due in large part to my influence. When I don't get the credit I feel I am owed, I can begin to feel unappreciated.

There is no formula for how much the contribution is worth and whether or not it merits writing credit. That's Prince's call and since none of us were there, it's hard to say if Prince done 'em dirty or if they're making a mountain out of a molehill. But in Prince's defense, it is also true that he gave writing credit to various people who had little to no involvement in the writing, but put their name on it as a way of offering some financial consideration.

Bottom line is that Prince wrote music before, during and long after these people were involved, so he's proven beyond doubt that he has the ability to write his own music. At the end of the day, his success has much more to do with his own will to succeed, incredible work ethic, and discipline with his craft than it has to do with the contributions of a couple folks on a handful of the thousands of songs he has created.

HalluRain said:

i got into a disagreement on another thread cause i dared hint that prince's current musical output might be better if he hung out with these people again.....not to like jam with them..but just to remember what it was like to be around people who considered you a peer (and not the million dollar genius he ended up being)...

NouveauDance°

said:

i think prince needs more people with balls hanging around..(not literally..cha know?) cause some of his songs sound great during the tours and then i listen to them on cd and they fall flat...


editasimpleedit...
[Edited 1/2/05 20:01pm]

thekidsgirl said:

but see thats what the whole discussion is about..giving credit where its due...no one here doubts princes talent...we all know he got it...but IMO its wrong to not give credit to the others involved..even if it was tiny. they still deserve that credit, just like prince does.

Moonwalkbjrain said:

And this is the reason that you end up with a cast of thousands at the podium to accept the award for songwriting these days.

From the accounts I've read of the way Prince often works with a band, he comes in with a song pretty much sketched out, plays the tape of it, then works the band through an arrangement. The band members are paid to learn it and embellish it to some extent as he's hired them for the skills and sound that they bring. But does that mean that they should get credit for writing the song?

HalluRain said:

yes they should...if they helped with the lyrics..or the music then I think they should get credit....cuz it probly wouldn'tve had this or that without their embellishing and their sound...it doesn't matter if thats what their paid 4...that makes it sound like he pays them to sign over their creativity to him..and if THATS the case then he's a bigger hypocrite than i thought. and also as far as i'm concerned u can have a million people @ a podioum 2 accept an award...cuz if they helped they should get their credit.

..and i think this whole, "well would they be as big as prince on their own?" arguement is just straight arse silly....there are probably people in the past that were far more talented then prince who's careers went nowhere..timing, cultural mood, luck all are factors...look at TTD...look at Tony Rich....gone from the media's eyes...they write, arrange and produce their own stuff.....these same people btw who screamed up and down that sells didnt mean anything a few years ago...

emoticanedit..
[Edited 1/2/05 19:22pm]
[/quote]

TTD is a fave but even he would admit to being a Prince clone. And no, he did not have the complete package of Prince. Yes many ingredients are needed but there also has to be a vision and a person to create that vision, Prince did this. In saying that his cronies had little success without him, I am pointing out that even with all his help, without him they couldn't really function, even though he gave them a better start in the biz than 99.9% of all musicians get, they still couldn't do a thing without him, even today the Time plays on Prince's popularity. Prince created a genre, an image and gave all these guys oppurtunities and for the most part they still couldn't take advantage of it, that is a fact. It is also a fact that he could be very mean spirited sometimes, point in case, his releasing shockadelica as a jab to Jesse. He also blocked Ingrid Chavez' release (reputedly) because he thought it was too good. Still, you would have heard of none of these people without the general.