Why is Prince still around selling albums ,selling out his concerts to say his early albums were not all his own work and Lisa and Andre wrote more than Prince lets on is so stupid, why did WB give him a contract to produce his own albums at the age of 19??? ,he may have pinched ideas here and there big deal but where are Andre ,Lisa , Morris now no one would know who they were without Prince ,there only famous for being in Prince' band, did they make 90 million from there concerts this year or get a place in the Rock and roll hall of fame was it Andre i saw on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine realy that is a dumb thing to say ,why is he admired by so many musicians and called a legend .A lot of Artists have there best work in the early years .but to say his only good work was in the 80's is wrong , Lisa wrote some of the Time album big deal ,u ever think Prince was realy busy at that time ,he didn't admit to writing there songs anyway,he made it look like they did it to give them some credit ,this Prince org is a bit weird at times it should become Andre ,lisa ,Wendy and Morris org if they were so great
[Edited 1/2/05 9:48am]

Anniechristian2 said:

as wierd as your overblown reaction to my statement?

nobody is saying any of what your rant leads one to believe....

1) who said andre wrote anything? re-read my posts before you go off on made up rants..

2) once again, not saying these people did anything other then inspiring prince to move his own talents up a notch...they were his muses..all great artists have them....

3) when all you have are yes men around you, it effects your judgement...look at President Bush as the perfect example of this...Prince is so revered in his industry that he will never find people to work with who have the balls to tell him, "yo, this is crap"....theres a reason why his new songs sound so great live. Musicology and Call My Name rocked ten times harder then what ended up on wax.....

4) who gives a flying fuck where Andre, Wendy or Morris are right now..it has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion....

now, how about re-reading my posts and responding rationally..

sosgemini said:

You reread your post ,it makes you wonder if the whole ..written,produced and arranged by..was a gimmick what does that mean ,your saying he lied that other people let him use there work and say he did it ? ok you must be a real big fan of Prince which is strange as your a moderator ,as well as that Gwen Stefani had about 8 different producers on her album and other people wrote some of the songs on it ,so i dont think she could help Prince esp as she said he influenced her.
[Edited 1/2/05 10:18am]

Anniechristian2 said:

oh dear.....im just wondering aloud if there were more people involved in the arranging/producing/engineering aspect.....expecially when there is evidence that others did have a hand in doing things that prince ended up getting sole credit for (which im not saying he did to be an arse.)....just thinking a loud..not making any declaration or trying to change history....because prince's recordings have really been lacking over the past decade...plastic...plastic sounding...no vitality....

and i threw out qwen's name not for her achievement but because her voice would have sounded a hell of a lot better then candy's, which proves (to me) that there arent people with the balls around prince to tell him when something sounds like shit....


and how about you sharing your opposing view without gutterballing and questioning my appreciation for the lil man, mmm-kay?

u just NOW startin to wonder? i been wonderin bout that since i read purple reign.

Also Madonna and MJ have not had a great album in years ,Ray of Light was ok ,but Madge also has great producers working on her albums ,MJ's best work was in the 80's and Madonna's best album was Like a Prayer in my opinion,so maybe they worked with more talented people at that time too? Prince has been around a long time ,you can't say every album since the 80,s has been plastic no vitality etc thats your opinion ,i happen to think N.E.W.S was amazing but a lot of people dont like it .After 25 years im sure someone would have came out and said Prince didn't write this or produce that ,maybe he did not write any songs maybe he cant play guitar maybe Madonna can sing and MJ likes sex with woman. :pout:why has Musicology had such great reviews,some critics saying its his best work in years ?
[Edited 1/2/05 12:19pm]

Anniechristian2 said:

because it is some of his best work years..but its still missing a certain vitality to it....something spiritual and alive...

and the difference between mj, madge vs. prince is that prince has written some wonderful songs that are transformed to perfection when performed live....another example of this is Reflection..Its an okay short lil tune on cd..but performed live during the Tavis Smiley show and the song became something much more....

and its not a matter of him being in need of a producer (cause most producers would be chicken shit to tell him he were wrong..maybe not quincy jones.. ). thats why i keep referencing his old school buddies...cause something tells me wendy would still tell him he was full of shit if she thought something sounded bad....

its interesting, neil finn (who globally is huge...) did a recent interview were he talked about his love for collaborating....he said it pulls something out of him that normally would stay dorment....bjork has said similiar things btw...but anyways, who did wendy and lisa recently say they learned the most from musically? neil finn...

you cant be a one man band forever..prince himself proved this after 1999..sometimes you need outside inspirations.....and sometimes you do need to call it solo..but prince has been solo for how many years now?

It just annoys me some people say Wendy and Lisa had a lot of input in P Rain and Parade and Andre came up with Vanity 6 etc and everything else on Dirty Mind according to him !but Prince is still here doing his best making music being an amazing musician getting the most attended concerts in the US,where as Wendy and Lisa did kind of disappear soon after they were no longer apart of the Revolution ..why could they not have there own lasting success if they were so good ? im not being smart just you cant take it away from Prince , saying maybe he wasn't as good as we all think he was

CalhounSq said:

Yes they can be!

Anniechristian2 said:

ehh...wrote a lot of crap that ended up being erased..

all i gotta say to you is that it took Bonnie Raitt years to get the respect and media attention she deserved.....wendy and lisa arent dead yet..and they are actually currently at the age Bonnie was when she became huge..so it can still happen....


but if you want to use sales and media attention as proof of talent..i guess that means Clay Atkins is more talented then prince then..cause he sold more albums then Prince this year...

and why should it upset you to find out that some of the stuff on Purple Rain was a collaborative effort? If in the end, the music is quality, then thats all that matters....

GeminiCalling said:

(again )

Lodger said:

That was funny ,no way Beyonce has enough bloody songs in the charts without ruining his most famous song ,her Tina Grammy performance was enough ,screeching over Prince's vocals trying not to let him steal the show which he did ok sosgemini i understand what your saying ..ok i will shut up now !

[Edited 1/2/05 13:47pm]

littlemissg said:

I'm speaking in terms of his career and his public image. Prince is right, the music industry does suck -but it doesn't hurt to play by their rules every once in while. A little good PR can go a long way in not alienating people.

Mani shouldn't have anything to do with that.

GeminiCalling said:

SnowQueen said:

I feel exactly the same!

WATCH THIS:

Basically, at the end of an undeniably successful year for Prince we come to the conclusion that once again, errbody knows how to run Prince's business better than he does.

Lodger said:

Glad I'm not the only one!

:::hands you a barf bucket:::

Anniechristian2 said:

Sorry to say this but being on the charts does not a good band make. There are a lot of great bands, singers.etc. that do not have high attendence at shows.

Miguel

Universaluv said:

i couldnt've said it any better than this.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

oh come on mrs crabtree..we were just having fun.....

and sure, the tour was a success..but lets not kid ourselves..the album sold because prince found a work-around to get back on the charts....his tours have always been successful..in the end, you have a rather flat album to some..or a good but not great album to others.....

how do we get it back to the music? cause everything thats been a success about prince this year *wasnt* about the music..despite what prince said in that ew article.

sosgemini said:

umm...perhaps a road trip to paisley's in order? find mr. nelson, drag 'im outta wherever and strap some funky electrical torture device to his nipples and demand the music, lest he wants to experience some excruciating pain and/or scorched chest hair?

sosgemini said:

Ok, did Prince release another SOTT? No.

Unless he named it "The Flat Album" whether or not it's flat is a matter of opinion. For what it's worth, musicology got overwhemingly good reviews, and a minority of reviews that said it was ok. (Personally, it's a middle tier album for me, not his best, no where near his worst, still a good album overall).

The tour was waaaaay more sucessful than any of his recent ventures.

His performance on the Grammy's with Beyonce was the show's highlight.

And he stole the show with the RRHOF.

And he's got a bunch of Grammy nominations to boot..

Heck I'd call it a success that he released videos that didn't look homemade.

Universaluv said:

once again, all that stuff has nothing to do with the music..and your own admission that the album wasnt great reinforces my statement....

and lets not talk about critics..for years here at the org everybody bitched and moan about critic responce yet now we are supposed to use them to support the quality of work? the same with the grammys? lets see...what happened here at the org when alicia keyes and norah jones won a boat load of grammy's? everybody discredited the institution..

so that leaves us..our opinion..and the conscensus seems to be, either its a flat album or its a good album...but not great...and my whole arguement on this thread has been what i personally think prince needs to do to make a great album...

nothing more...nothing less...

sosgemini said:

that is true but the skeletons of those songs were still Prince's...Lisa added her colors to it.
[Edited 1/3/05 10:40am]

SquarePeg said:

its on her website..under bios...it wasnt their originally and must have changed sometime this year..which struck me as weird..why now take credit? thats what made me wonder if prince is now acknowledging the fact or something...


and no way no how am i trying to discredit prince's talents.....he is a musical genius, period.

sosgemini said:

Well, my point about the critics is that the consensus seems to be that Musicology was a good (not flat) album. To the extent that we are talking about what the "consensus" is, I don't think it's wrong to bring up what the critics generally thought. In addition to you and I, they are people who also have opinions. As opinions go, there will always be some who don't like an album no matter what the consensus is (see RS's original review of SOTT by Kurt Loder "a relative letdown").

I personally never got into trashing the Grammy's based on somebody I don't care for winning some, so whether its a discredited institution is not my fight. Rightly or wrongly, it is still considered a measure of success in the music industry.

As far as the idea that Prince needs to make a "great album" . Sure, I'm all for it.


Note 2 Prince: Make great album.


There I've done my part. I can't wait to hear it!

sosgemini said:

you noticed I edited my post? LOL Cuz I had just remembered reading that in DMSR....but you bring up a good point...WHY bring that up now??? Who knows However it's still good to know, cuz LIsa is a genius in her own right...

Ok this is how I understand the situation, from reading DMSR.....what would happen is this....Prince, Lisa Andre, Fink and Bobby would be jamming (during rehearsals or whatever)...and Lisa and the guys would play these "ideas" that Prince liked...next thing you know....it's on an album.

And in the case of most of those tracks on Dream Factory/SOTT...I realized from reading that MOST of those songs that Wendy and Lisa embellished were already written by Prince some five, six years earlier....I had thought that they had written them, or something.

And sosgemini I agree with what you said about the girls getting in his face and telling him to change stuff, because I GAR-TON-TEE (guarantee) that had they still been with him when he added "rap" to his stuff...they would've said HELL NAW!!! but you know what? Everything happens for a reason. We can't change history, ya know...and I happen to think he made some pretty incredible stuff in the 90s.
[Edited 1/3/05 10:53am]

Let's see your scary qualifications, please.
If you agree that the man is a musical genius, who are you to step up with your fantastical scenarios? Get behind an instrument and jam with Prince onstage, then tell him what he should and should not do.

OdysseyMiles said:

because if we didnt talk about this this whole forum would be one big masturbatory bore...

which it is normally..but i decided to try and have some fun in it, which i did....




errredit...
[Edited 1/3/05 11:12am]