mozfonky said:[quote Prince created a genre, an image and gave all these guys oppurtunities and for the most part they still couldn't take advantage of it, that is a fact. It is also a fact that he could be very mean spirited sometimes, point in case, his releasing shockadelica as a jab to Jesse. He also blocked Ingrid Chavez' release (reputedly) because he thought it was too good. Still, you would have heard of none of these people without the general.[/quote]


but it was also a burden...take wendy and lisa for example....they created a sound w/ eroica that sheryl crow popularized years later....heck, even veruca salt had better success copying their sound (which they have admitted to)..yet, all the interviews, all the media attention is on their time with prince..which, if you listen to Eroica has no resemblance to prince's sound...

i cant speak about on the times behalf because i never really followed their career...but jesse johnson released some pretty solid albums on his own but couldnt get out of that prince box either..

sure it helped their careers..it got them noticed...but to overshadowed by prince (and some times rightfully) isnt always a rosy scenerio...expecially when you try to branch outside the box...

Wendy and Lisa may or may not have done good work, I wouldn't know. I bought their first album but couldn't get into it. Heard they got good reviews though. Prince gave them advice that they did not take, even after they left him. My feeling is that if you really got what it takes and you get the right breaks, then you will make a mark, if not then you won't. Simple.

mozfonky said:

huh? so...you really think somebody as talented but butt ugly as johnny cash or roy orbison would make it in todays musical world?

lets run down the list of recent artist that have tanked with superior work then the likes of britney, usher, ashanti and the like reign the charts..


heather headly
amel larrieux
van hunt..
meshell's "comfort woman"


heck,today, prince would be considered too wierd to get mainstream success...

its not about getting a break..its about who has enough money to bribe....sadly unless things change we will never know who is truly talented enough to deserve radio airplay....

but anyways, thats besides the whole point of this discussion..all i know is im not shocked that prince didnt give people proper credit....and im not shocked that prince gave false credit to make up for not giving proper credit....

nothing suprises me anymore....bush was re-elected...and wendy and lisa are working on a new album..they could pull a bonnie raitt and end up big at a matured age.....

who knows.....but then would all thoughs who discredit them then eat their words?

Well, it is an oversimplification. The business end is a joke, but by and large if a person can get through the right channels and they really have what the public wants then yes, they can make it. These days you can find some rather ugly or plain people who seem to make it so I don't think that is an end all in itself. I think that if you have the power as an artist to make relevant, moving music and it gets to human beings, it will effect them in a way that great art does, that is what I mean. I remember listening to Prince when I was 13 and regardless of how weird he was, how gay he seemed, none of that mattered when I sat there and felt the music move me, it's a rare thing, that and charisma. That quality that mesmerizes.

He may have not gotten a contract with Warner Brothers but he got a contract with Columbia (which is where Prince is now). On the Columbia label, he released the albums "Livin' In The New Wave", "Survivin' The 80s", and "AC". The first two albums went pretty much unnoticed (by the way, Prince didn't make a big splash off of his first album either) but his third album did fairly well on R&B radio. Yeah, Prince lended a hand with "The Dance Electric" but "Lipstick Lover", "Book Of Love", and "Satisfaction" were also being played to death down here.

He later produced Jody Watley on MCA records. Her first album was very successful. People were much more into her album that year than they were into Prince's.

Jesse Johnson also made three albums in the late 1980s on A&M records and produced two albums for TaMara And The Seen, and an album for DaKrash on A&M records. I remember several people during this time period that had loved Prince since the beginning of his career, giving up on Prince and swaying toward Jesse.

Morris Day even had two albums out in the late 1980s also that were making a little noise.

Prince definately has talent but he has worked with some very talented people also and I have always considered Andre as one of the very best. Since they were so close growing up, who knows what rubbed off on each other.

vainandy said:

so why the hell didn't they SUE HIM? If he "stole" so much? Can you answer that? This is not meant as a malicious question to start a fight I really wanna know. Cuz everytime I read an interview with them, they whine a little bit about that, so I'm like "well shit, DO something about it, sue the motherfucker, get after him! If it's THAT BAD!" I mean, really...
[Edited 1/3/05 12:11pm]

1/2/05 16:24pm][/b]
[/quote]
so why the hell didn't they SUE HIM? If he "stole" so much? Can you answer that? This is not meant as a malicious question to start a fight I really wanna know. Cuz everytime I read an interview with them, they whine a little bit about that, so I'm like "well shit, DO something about it, sue the motherfucker, get after him! If it's THAT BAD!" I mean, really...
[Edited 1/3/05 12:11pm]
[/quote]

Hard to prove it for one thing, also, we gotta remember how all those guys grew up together and really did love each other although they fought they were family and bickering is expected. Who knows, maybe they were afraid Prince had the power to retaliate businesswise against them. Either way, everyone great and small steals, there is no way around it, ideas come from somewhere, creative geniuses know how to put the pieces together in compelling ways. You never hear Elvis' sidemen saying he stole ideas, or michael's producers, it's accepted that the figurehead is going to get the credit, and is also the spark behind whatever occurs.

It's quite possible that Andre's "do me baby" was a totally different song or arrangement from Prince's.

First of all, how would they prove it? And next, how do you battle a musical giant like Prince and win? That would be like the local mom and pop grocery store going up against Kroger's. This also was the early 1980s, the widespread "suing trend" didn't start until the late 1980s.

Like it or not, Prince is not 100%, larger than life, perfect. He puts his shoes on one foot at a time just like everyone else.

vainandy said:

They could've sued him back THEN, in 1980/81, before he blew up. (or at least after they left the band, which was still around that time period before Purple Rain came out)


when did I say he was larger than life? I never said that.

[quote]

SquarePeg said:

People tend to think that Prince was basically an unknown before "Little Red Corvette". That's not true at all. He was a major star in R&B with a loyal following and he had money. Andre didn't have anything except what Prince paid him. He would have been fighting an uphill battle and probably would have lost what little bit of money that he did have. Instead, he probably just said the hell with it and set out to make his own money.

I just said the same thing in another thread ,why does everyone think Prince stole ideas ,music lyrics etc why would you come into Prince fan site to say that ,Andre and Lisa and everyone else should have sued him but they didnt ,and they are famous for being in his bands ,only famous because of him .
If he stole from other artists since 78 ,when he was given his recording contract from WB (BTW they were realy impressed with him ,in case you dont know this )thats why they let him produce himself
Prince is a genius ,he writes ,arranges and produces his albums
Wendy /Lisa /Andre ..what are they doing know
Well Andre complains about Prince in every biography that he wrote Do me baby !
Wendy and Lisa were on the 2nd disc of the P Rain dvd so they must be busy then lol
So basically its Prince who got 90 million from his concerts ,Rock and Roll hall of fame etc ,so maybe you doubters out there might be a bit wrong about him stealing from his band members ,maybe you need to think about what your saying and stop taking away what he is ,or trying to take it away ..its sounds stupid ,and when Prince starts a European tour and makes more million to add to his bank account ,he will have the last laugh .you ever think Andre and Lisa could be jealous ????? anyone can say they wrote a song and someone stole it ...this Prince org is a joke ,it should be renamed ,some people here just wont let him have his glory ..this is why HOUSE QUAKE has over 10,000 members they like him over there

Anniechristian2 said:

here we go again...

Wendy and Lisa had been doing music for movies for years. As far as Andre, I haven't heard any more from him since probably around 1989. To be selfishly truthful, I'm glad he's been gone because music as a whole went straight to hell in the 1990s and I would have hated to see him water his music down to fit in their format. And I give Jesse Johnson the highest respect for recording a hard rock album in the 1990s rather than trying to return to R&B because at that time, he would have had to water it down with hip hop. I'd rather see them all retired than to see their good names ruined. Like I said...to be selfishly truthful.

[/quote]

At prince.org, we tell it like it is and don't hold anything back. A lot of us are Prince fans and not Prince worshipers which seems to be the difference I have seen between prince.org and Housequake where everyone always agrees all the time like Prince does absolutely no wrong. Admit it, you like it here yourself. That's why you keep visiting. It's your guilty pleasure.

Yes sosgemini im a fan of Prince ,he is a big artist you know very famous very talented very admired by other artists often copied ,but some people cant let him have his glory ,so they come in here talking shit
But im sure Wendy and Lisa's next album will be huge as they gave Prince so much( senergy ) get back to me when there album and tour makes over 90 million :Andre might make a big comeback too
[Edited 1/3/05 15:24pm]

Anniechristian2 said:

sorry dear, i dont equate sales with talent.....because, based on your logic CLAY ATKINS IS MADD TALENTED...MORE SO THEN PRINCE THIS YEAR.....




but glad to see you properly using the word "senergy"...your on the right path..

Part of the reason that this whole issue rubs so many folks the wrong way is because Prince was a egomaniac for whom 'credit' was paramount.

'Produced, Arranged, Composed and Performed by Prince'

This was a staple of all of his early recordings and was included to scream 'I did it all!'. If this was the mood of his camp at that time then does it surprise anyone that there were some bitter folks who wanted their just due?

thekidsgirl said:

Excuse u, but I am indeed not a hater as u say, but more of a realist.....
I guess that is the difference between u and I and some others here. I see things as they are and u see things from an imaginary point of view. No harsh feelings though.....keep living and thinking as u wish.....after all u are the "kids girl" right!

sosgemini said:

strawberrydreams said:

You realy are a hater ,we have been giving him too much credit ! what are you on

Wendy and Lisa and Andre had little or no success after leaving Prince so they were not that bloody great :lol:or maybe his dad wrote a lot of his stuff ,your just trying to wind people up
change your avator your not a real fan ,hater

mozfonky said:

Anniechristian2 said:

Actually that's not true. Andre had great success in the late 80's early 90's producing Jody Watley. So he is a talented composer and producer. As for where he is now and what he is up too. I have'nt the slightest idea.

Peace

vainandy said:

I don't know, man...I mean, that does make sense, but...I think there was more to it then that. I mean, I read that Pepe Willie became the "spokesperson" for the band, because they were too afraid to approach Prince! Maybe that had something to do with why Andre didn't sue him.

violator said:

exactly. But the question still remains "why did they wait so long to get their just due"? Like sosgemini said on another thread "why now"? And furthermore, are they really bitter? Wendy and Lisa don't seem like bitter people to me. Should they be? I don't know. But if they should, they sure aren't showing it.

we need EverlastingNow in here

SquarePeg said:

Maybe the time is right for disclosure.

For one thing none of these folks are under Prince's thumb anymore. I don't think any of them come off as bitter. But while they were in Prince's employ did anyone really think these sort of admissions were forthcoming?

Once again.....Jody Watley....major success.

vainandy said:

Once again i never heard of Jody Watley ,what songs did she have that were hits

Anniechristian2 said:

how old are you, sweetie?

SquarePeg said:

i dont mean to laugh..that was just too cute...cause you asked with such sincerity...