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DorothyParkerWasCool said: I understand your points, but if you go back and LISTEN to the recordings, they are pretty much the same as what we hear today. I have listened to these...at least PR and Parade ...maybe not last week, but over the last few months. I don't have Lovesexy shows to listen to so my frame of reference is more PR and Parade tours. Three horn players vs. two are not that much of a difference. Mike Phillips was not there the entire tour and he and Maceo were not at that many shows together. Therefore, the Musicology tour had two sax players and a trombone player, vs. a sax and trumpeter on past tours
I was at the MSG shows.. I don't remember exaclty but I think there were 4 horn players. At least it seemed that way (more on that later). 
Btw, on the Purple Rain tour Prince used two sax men, Eddie M. and Eric Leeds. So three horn players make a horn section and two do not?
I don't think that was true for all shows. I saw an early date and I'm pretty sure Eric wasn't there yet. MOre importantly, I think a lot of it has to do with the style and feel. On PR, it was mainly a sax (or 2) playing along with the heavy synths of Lisa and Matt. Parade definitely turned the horns up, but the feel was more like traditional R&B soul which uses horns extensively (e.g. Earth Wind and Fire etc.). Around The World In A Day[/i] live on the Parade tour is another prime example. The synth line that follows "I think I wanna dance" on the album track is not on the live version. The synths are replaced by horns and they hit harder than any synth line I've heard. That's not augmenting thats replacing.
I'll listen again when I get home but I think you are wrong here. There are horns but I defintely hear the synths there too. That's my favorite part of that song. That mod-wheel synth sound is definitely there. I'm sorry, perceptions do not change reality.
Chill man . I'm not dissing the Muisiclogy tour.
People's perceptions are their realities. Andwe're talking about a subjective thing here. Again, I think it's a matter of STYLE. Even if the horn charts are exactly the same (which I really don't think they are)... the players are going to play it with their own style technique etc. Personally, I preferred the style of mixing Eric's playing with the synths to the current horn sound.  |
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GaryMF said: That mod-wheel synth sound is definitely there.
 RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time... |
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GaryMF said: People's perceptions are their realities. Andwe're talking about a subjective thing here. Perception being your reality and reality are two totally different things. That's like the differences between ideal and real cultures, one is what people say they do and the other is what really happens. I said I will not let perception change reality. Again your opinion is subjective and it can be challenged by pulling the shows and using a content analysis. I was not comparing whether or not I liked horns vs. not liking them. I was discussing whether or not there were major differences in horn usage for '04 Prince vs. 1980's Prince and there is not. Furthermore, I was discussing the lack of religious imagery in the post JW Prince Musicology tour vs. the overt messages in the pre-JW 1980's shows ie. Lovesexy, Purple Rain etc. That is not subjective that is fact because the performances are documented and therefore can be compared. GaryMF said: Personally, I preferred the style of mixing Eric's playing with the synths to the current horn sound. Now that is subjective because that is YOUR opinion. You have every right to like Eric's playing with the synths vs. Maceo, Candy, Greg and Mike Phillips. [Edited 12/22/04 13:13pm] | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: Perception being your reality and reality are two totally different things.
Well now we're getting way too deep into philosophical debate which I don't think was your original point (i.e. the debate about what is is reality and what exists etc. is thousands of years old!)
I was discussing whether or not there were major differences in horn usage for '04 Prince vs. 1980's Prince [u[and there is not[/u].
It all depends how you define "horn usage." As I stated, I think the major differences are stylistic, which by defintion, are much harder to explain or rationalize, analyze etc. Yes, both tours used horns. To my ear, Musicology has them more to the front.... or perhaps (and I just thought of this as I'm typing)... it's the fact that the signature synth sound is less prominent now, that makes the horns that way. I really dig that synth sound so I miss hearing it as much as you did on the earlier tours. Furthermore, I was discussing the lack of religious imagery in the post JW Prince Musicology tour vs. the overt messages in the pre-JW 1980's shows ie. Lovesexy, Purple Rain etc. That is not subjective that is fact because the performances are documented and therefore can be compared.
I had no comment on this topic. And overall, wasn't your whole post about asking why people say the things they do?? |
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interpret said: DorothyParkerWasCool said: I understand your points, but if you go back and LISTEN to the recordings, they are pretty much the same as what we hear today. I watched and listened to the Lovesexy, Purple Rain, and Parade shows after viewing a recording of the Musicology concert and the arrangements were very similar. Three horn players vs. two are not that much of a difference. Mike Phillips was not there the entire tour and he and Maceo were not at that many shows together. Therefore, the Musicology tour had two sax players and a trombone player, vs. a sax and trumpeter on past tours. Btw, on the Purple Rain tour Prince used two sax men, Eddie M. and Eric Leeds. So three horn players make a horn section and two do not? Again, the "Vegasy" arrangements are all over the Parade and Lovesexy shows. According to the "Vegasy" definition used on this site, I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man during the SOTT tour could be considered too vegas sounding because the horns replaced the synth oriented hook on record and live horns dominated the concert performance. ICNTTPOYM Live was altered greatly because Fink is the only synth player on that song. Bonnie Boyer is playing acoustic piano and the horns take the lead synth role. Go find a copy of the Parade shows; they played horns on damn near every note of every song. Raspberry Beret is horn driven on the Parade tour, the entire arrangement is mainly horns, with bass drums and vocals. The great synth line in Raspberry Beret is almost non-exitstent, it is replace by a horn driven lead line. Around The World In A Day live on the Parade tour is another prime example. The synth line that follows "I think I wanna dance" on the album track is not on the live version. The synths are replaced by horns and they hit harder than any synth line I've heard. That's not augmenting thats replacing. I'm sorry, perceptions do not change reality. Like I said in my initial post, this stuff is documented, I am not going from memory. You can pull the performances and listen/view them back to back, make comparisons and do a content analysis. I don't consider it "Vegasy", Prince had a more soulful Live sound starting with the Parade tour. He stripped it down in during the Gold Era and now he's using it again. [Edited 12/22/04 9:30am]  TEACH ON! TEACH ON! SCHOOL EM'Very well done!!! In fact, I may be in the minority here, but as an avid jazz fan, I always welcome the horns and I think the arrangements serve as brilliantly-composed additions. For example, I liked "Musicology" much better live because I really liked the way he added in the horn arrangement. Very nicely done.  | |
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i don't want any old-ass senior citizens in the band anymore.
i want chance howard neutered. i want dr.fink back,pronto. is this too much to ask? | |
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