During the Musicology tour I noticed a few people with gripes about Prince's current views, his jazz fascination and the way he performs certain songs in concert. Yet, if you compare the Musicology shows with the Purple Rain, Parade and Lovesexy Tours, you will notice some striking similarities. I read reviews and comments made by a few concert attendees who did not like Prince adding horn sections to some of the more rock oriented songs like Let's Go Crazy. The horns didn't bother me(IMHO, they gave certain songs a warmer feel). Furthermore, I had an orger (who shall remain nameless) tell me once that they didn't know why Prince added the "Go Go Go" chant to LGC and that the “old Prince” would have never done that. However, after FINALLY seeing the Lovesexy Tour on video, I noticed that Prince used both the horns and the "Go Go Go" chant on Let's Go Crazy . There was no sax solo on Let's Go Crazy on the Lovesexy tour, but the horns did play rhythm. Other than that its nearly identical to the Musicology Tour performance. (Side note, Prince and the Revolution added horns to songs that were originally recorded without them beginning with the Purple Rain tour. The Parade tour had the most noticeable use of horns; ATWIAD live is different from the album version.)

Another gripe I heard was about the “Vegas” arrangement of Kiss on the last tour. Again, the arrangement on the Lovesexy show is nearly identical to Musicology. Ironically, the Lovesexy Tour version was a little heavier on horns while Musicology's Kiss was heavier on synths. The vocal arrangements on both shows are almost exact.


Last comment, some people complained about Prince using pretty much the same set-list every night. Yet, all of his large scale tours in the past remained close to a central setlist/choreography on a nightly basis. It's difficult to change up a large scale arena show like he did on the One Night Alone tour because the production requires more light programming, sound cues etc., therefore they must stick to a basic show. Is it that memories have faded and some people don't remember the show being the same every night in the past? Or is it that as adults we have discretionary income to spend on more than one show; therefore noticing that arena shows are similar from night-to-night with a few changes thrown in; change in songs here and there, and different showmanship techniques. I know the internet plays a large role in this too. During the 1980's the lack of technology prevented the discussions between a cross section of anonymous fans/concert goers. We did not have the ability to compare performance notes so easily and it was nearly impossible to read every critics review of the concert in EVERY city.

I typed all of this to ask why the so many fans complain about wanting Prince to return to what he did during the 1980s tours, when in actuality it's really the same thing. The major difference I found was that the Musicology show was light on religious references while the Lovesexy and Purple Rain tours had overtly/explicit religious messages and imagery. After watching a few of Prince's shows during the 1980's I've noticed that Musicology was a combination of everything that worked best during his hey-day. The entrance was identical to the Purple Rain tour, confetti drop during Let's Go Crazy '04 similar to the flowers dropped during LGC '84, the aforementioned song arrangements etc. I know that time causes us to romanticize certain events in our lives, but this stuff is documented so you can always go back, experience it again on cd/video and make comparisons. I'm just trying to get the logic; maybe I'm missing something.
[Edited 12/21/04 22:13pm]

Good points.

Oh and First!

People will always find something 2 complain about..there were complaints about Sign O The Times, Purple Rain, SOMETHING they will find.


Anyway... I am one who never really was fond of Kiss live because the instrumentation was too fast, and I have noticed this on just about every tour.

Other than that...Musicology Tour would have 2 be my favorite..it iwas awesome. Especially When Doves Cry and I Would Die 4 U. Lets not even talk about DMSR and Sign O The Times

It was a definite return to the large scale crowd pleaser. And every1 got they money's worth...probably except for the people who bouht just about every ticket they could and followed him religiously around the country ( 5 times for me this year and I didnt spend one dime and all of em were great...especially Detroit, Minneapolis and Cleveland).

paisleypark4 said:

Yeah I agree, people have to complain about something. I just find it interesting that people criticize the current tours and then give that "u should have been there when" speech whenever they want talk about past tours. I just don't understand how anyone can say that Prince is over using horns today and then turn around and praise the Parade tour. There are horns all over the live versions of ATWIAD, Controversy, Delirious, and Raspberry Beret on that tour and the last time I checked none of those songs contained horns on the studio versions. BTW, good song selections from the Musicology Tour...Sign O the Times, DMSR, When Doves Cry and Shhh were amazing. I enjoyed all 5 times i say him this year...3 in Atlanta and 2 in New York City.
[Edited 12/21/04 22:16pm]

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Awsome post.

The Musicology tour was the best Prince has done to date, not counting his informal jams at the Park. I've heard people, including unnamed orgers, bitch about the horns, but Prince has been "horny" since the Purple Rain tour (and people pissed and moaned about it then). Every night Prince played two or three different songs than he did the night before. I admit that was a bit generic (I woulda liked a bit more variation), but the Musicology tour was like a well-oiled machine. The show he developed was damn near perfect. John Blackwell is absolutely the best drummer that I've ever heard (and I've attended well over a hundred concerts). The New Power Generation, in their current form, is the best they've ever been. They're ten times better than ANY live band Prince has ever played with (including the revolution). If you didn't like the Musicology tour, you're either braindead, dead or deaf. The concert was spectacular. It exceeded my expectations in nearly every single way.

Luv & Peace,
Alex
Clubbin' in Mpls/A Night w. Prince

sloopydrew4u said:

um, I may be repeating myself here... but Awsome Post.

wdrew said:

Thanx, I appreciate it.

Wonderful, wonderful points made. These are things that I've always wanted to say, but you articulated them beautifully.
I agree that in this tour Prince combined many things that worked in the past with a few new ideas.
I've seen the man live several times, but the two Musicology shows I witnessed this year were just incredible.
People like to say that P set high standards back in the 80's, but with this tour, he has raised the bar even higher IMHO.

sloopydrew4u said:

Excellent post. I agree the current NPG is unbelievable and VERY versatile. I have been to numerous concerts and I have never heard a band as good as the NPG.

Great Thread Dorothy Parker! I too am sick and tired of people complaining about Prince doing one thing or not doing something. It's so tired. IMO, it was his best tour. I saw 3 Musicology concerts (2 in L.A. and 1 in NYC) and an aftershow at HOB in L.A. and it was the highlight of my year. I loved the horns, he set out to put a different spin on songs like Let's Go Crazy or DMSR. If he played the songs like the albums, people would complain about that. It all comes down to this, the man can do whatever he wants with his music because it's HIS music and I know that I'll be there to see what he comes up with next.

I don't count myself among those who complained about Musicology; I saw it twice and loved it (especially the last MSG date with Sheila!).

But regarding the "horny horns" comment...

There is a big difference between the use of horns on the PR/Parade/Lovesexy tours (I saw all 3) and now.

1. The first 3 tours had just Eric and Matt: 1 sax and 1 trumpet. Not exaclty a traditional horn section. In contrast, Musicology has a pretty full horn section, including more than 1 sax IIRC, trumpet, trombone, etc. That creates a very different sound and feel.

2. The earlier tours used horns to augment the signature synth-horn sound, and maybe play a solo here or there. Musicology, the real horns pretty much replace the synths or overshadow them in the arrangement.

Remember, that Prince originally used synths (Oberheims) in his recordings to paly parts that other bands used horns for, which at the time was considered very innovative.

3. Personally, I thought Eric's playing really had a unique personality that's hard to describe in words. Plus he and Eric playing in unison was also kinda unique. Kind of like vocal groups who are siblings.... together they have a sound that is just something special (thinking of the Emotions here). vs. 3 singers who are thrown together.

Anyway, like I said I love Musicology tour, but just because there were some horns onstage in the 80's doesnt' mean that the horns today are the same, and that the comments people made aren't valid.

Cuz I do agree that some of the songs today sound a bit "Vegasy" or maybe more "Mature"..... It's cool though. Part of what is great about Prince is he always reinvents and finds new ways to play the same songs.

paisleypark4 said:

I'd like to know how to do that!

GaryMF said:

I understand your points, but if you go back and LISTEN to the recordings, they are pretty much the same as what we hear today. I watched and listened to the Lovesexy, Purple Rain, and Parade shows after viewing a recording of the Musicology concert and the arrangements were very similar. Three horn players vs. two are not that much of a difference. Mike Phillips was not there the entire tour and he and Maceo were not at that many shows together. Therefore, the Musicology tour had two sax players and a trombone player, vs. a sax and trumpeter on past tours. Btw, on the Purple Rain tour Prince used two sax men, Eddie M. and Eric Leeds. So three horn players make a horn section and two do not?

Again, the "Vegasy" arrangements are all over the Parade and Lovesexy shows. According to the "Vegasy" definition used on this site, I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man during the SOTT tour could be considered too vegas sounding because the horns replaced the synth oriented hook on record and live horns dominated the concert performance. ICNTTPOYM Live was altered greatly because Fink is the only synth player on that song. Bonnie Boyer is playing acoustic piano and the horns take the lead synth role. Go find a copy of the Parade shows; they played horns on damn near every note of every song. Raspberry Beret is horn driven on the Parade tour, the entire arrangement is mainly horns, with bass drums and vocals. The great synth line in Raspberry Beret is almost non-exitstent, it is replace by a horn driven lead line. Around The World In A Day live on the Parade tour is another prime example. The synth line that follows "I think I wanna dance" on the album track is not on the live version. The synths are replaced by horns and they hit harder than any synth line I've heard. That's not augmenting thats replacing.

I'm sorry, perceptions do not change reality. Like I said in my initial post, this stuff is documented, I am not going from memory. You can pull the performances and listen/view them back to back, make comparisons and do a content analysis. I don't consider it "Vegasy", Prince had a more soulful Live sound starting with the Parade tour. He stripped it down in during the Gold Era and now he's using it again.
[Edited 12/22/04 9:30am]

LovesexyIsThe1 said:

The irony of all of this is that Prince's JW beliefs are always the subject for ridicule and criticism. About how it changes his lyrics, religious references in shows etc., but the Purple Rain performance has one of the most overt religious references during his conversation with God, before he goes into a moving performance of the song God. Furthermore, Darling Nikki's backwards tracking is played forward and you get to hear the "Hello, how are you I'm fine because the lord is coming soon, Coming Coming soon" vocal harmony. Also, the recording after the performance of Darling Nikki he prominently mentions Jesus, saying that there is only one God Jesus and if you believe he will forgive u. The Anna Stesia performance during the Lovesexy tour is interesting too. First the entire show has a religious theme/explicit imagery and during Anna Stesia he gives a speech that is very similar to the one he gave during the ONA tour. I often hear people say in the past his beliefs were more all inclusive but after hearing Prince explicitly name Jesus and or Christian based beliefs in the two shows I mentioned, its hard to see major differences. I guess the criticisms were because of his conversion to the JW beliefs because the message was still Christian based. I guess the only people offended during the 1980s shows were non-christians and atheists. Now we need to add non-JW Christians to that group.
[Edited 12/22/04 9:55am]

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

I see your points and some are very valid but I don't recall back in the 80s Prince being so vocal about how 'wrong' non-Christians were in there beliefs, vs. nowadays and how he explicitly makes clear his belief that non-JWs are not on the right path or whatever.

Yes he presented religious themes - Christian based themes - all through his career but (and maybe I'm just not recalling examples to the opposite here or misunderstood some things, I don't know) he never seemed to make it such an ISSUE then as he does now. The NPGMC is a prime example of the pervasive atmosphere nowadays. It's like a "believe this as I do or just get out or at least don't question anything" attitude, and I never felt that in the 80s despite the obviously Christian themes.

True, he's always made his religious beliefs clear and used them prominently in his music, but he never seemed to go that step further and insinuate all those who held differing beliefs were wrong or lesser or whatever until these recent years.

Like I said, I'm merely stating how I perceive things.
[/quote]
[Edited 12/22/04 10:00am]

1. I loved the Musicology Tour and disagreed with criticism about horn arrangements.

2. People are often forgetting how prominent horns were in arrangements on previous tours.

3. People often forget how many Christian (not just spiritual but actually Christianity) references Prince made on past tours. Yes, JW comments seem to be less inclusive but it is false to say he wasn't singling out certain religious beliefs previously.

4. Musicology was not as good a concert as Lovesexy or One Nite Alone but would probably be third out of all of his tours--didn't see Gold Experience live or on video so can't truly say. That is impressive.

5. Musicology was much more successful and enjoyable than almost any of us expected. It was a great cross-section of a show that had bits for bandwaggoners, casual fans, and fanatics.

TimCalhoun said:

[Edited 12/22/04 10:00am]
[/quote]


I understand your points..but when someone states "there is only one God Jesus and if you believe he will forgive you" like Prince did in 1984 on the Purple Rain tour, it is less inclusive to the non-Christians, ie, Muslims, Jews, Hindu's etc. that may have been in attendance. That statement could have been offensive to their beliefs and I'm sure they would have felt left out. The major difference is that now the group that felt included now feels left out. So the perception of his statements are different.

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Good point.

I did not recall that quote from 1984.

TimCalhoun said:

Thanx..yeah that quote is directly from 1985's Prince and The Revolution Live VHS. I watched it over the weekend.

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

TEACH ON! TEACH ON! SCHOOL EM'

paisleypark4 said:

( 5 times for me this year and I didnt spend one dime and all of em were great...especially Detroit, Minneapolis and Cleveland).

SO TELL ME MAESTRO HOW YOU MANAGED THIS TRICK? I PROMISE NOT TO SHARE THE SECRET

so u came to detroit pp4 and didn't stop by my crib!
I'm so mad at you papi!

Great thread.

OdysseyMiles said:

Odyssey, c'mon. I hope you are joking, cause I didn't mean it in a bad way. He cut short the PR tour before it came to Denver, and I never got to see that tour.

He performed more songs from PR on this tour than anything since that tour, but I didn't mind. I loved finally getting a chance to see some of them live.

Now in 2008, I swear, he better do Lovesexy Pt. 2!

I still cannot figure why people compare concert tours..

Does he not offer more, better each time that he has toured?

I think so, I have been going to his conerts for 20 something years now.. and I have never been disappointed.

In fact it has been a pleasure to have watched him evolve...

LovesexyIsThe1 said:

Dude, of course I'm joking.