There are loads and loads of Prince bootlegs eh? ... It's clear to see how the live ones appear but has anyone got any information on how the studio stuff gets out?

Do you think they might've been leaked out because there was no other way for him to get his other music out there?

Prince is the man behind those bootlegs, so he keeps the fire burning.

Xplanet said:

No.

Some outtakes get out because Prince gives a tape to a woman he's dating and she then gives it away or what have you.

Others were leaked by former employees (engineers and such)

DavidL said:

I very much agree with DavidL.. Prince is the culprit.

sag10 said:

The man gets excited about his creations and wants to share; unfortunately, the people he shares them with "do what thy will."

I think it's so strange seeing as there's so many out there that he was clueless as to what was going on. I don't know that much about this subject but it now seems as though any bootleggs containing any recently recorded music just don't appear anymore because he's now got the freedom to do what he wants with his music. ... hence the need not to leak them out anymore...


Just a thought...
[Edited 12/15/04 3:01am]

DavidL said:

I totally agree.

what usually happens is,

artist submits demos outtakes unreleased stuff to label, record executive finds out son or other relative or friend is big fan, said executive makes copy,relative or friend spreads it to someone else, and so on and so on....


and another example.. same scenario but!!! executive leaks tape to someone with those connections.

Bootlegging = The illigal sale of live recordings
Pirating = The illigal sale of studio recordings (released or unreleased).

Bootlegs - created/distributed by sound engineers etc (Sound board recordings) and Joe Public (Audience recordings)... Mass distribution by illigal labels, P2P file sharing, other means such as trading etc...

Pirates (unreleased) - created by Prince (obviously), immediate distribution by Prince(?), Prince's 'friends', managers, execs, engineers etc... Mass distribution by illigal labels, P2P file sharing, other means such as trading etc...

Pirates (released) - created by anyone with the original CD/Tape/Vinyl. immediate distribution by absolutely everyone who has ever burned songs to CD or tape-to-tape (back in the day), and then given to a friend, relative, colleague or shared with the world via internet and P2P etc etc... Also includes illigal labels distributing as genuine release.

Are bootlegs illigal? Only if profited from...

Are unreleased pirates illigal? Only if profited from...

Are released pirates illigal? Yes, protected under copyright/distribution laws etc etc... A grey area exists where copying for personal use, ie making your own 'best of' compilation for the car etc... Certain majors have added anti-copying 'stuff' to the original CD to corrupt any copying of material to another CD...

I think in the WB days that most of the outtakes were out there because he wanted them out there. Remember most artists need an engineer, musicians, lyricist, and producers to complete a project. Prince needs none of the above and he owns a his own studio since Dirty Mind. It has always been my opinion that he understood these jewels pushed his legend much like Springsteen and Dylan as prolific songwriters.

However around 95 he had a change of heart and decided these were no longer acceptable forms to put out music.

That's when the WB was at a peak, we heard of exodus, acoustic albums, and emancipation once he got free.

Then the big NYC raid happened and friends of mine @ Revolver Records had millions of $ in cd's seiged. Now this was not by Prince but by the FBI> However it should be noted that over the years they rcvd the best stuff and prince's people have been in that store.

Anonymous gifts of premiere tickets to Prince movies and concerts were common.

Then some Prince went on his amnesty bootleg campaign.

My stance is that yes the artist has the right to decide what he wants to release however if the only reason an artist fights bootlegs is because of money; the relationship between bootleg sales and a decrease in official release sales has never been proven.

I also think that Prince owes fans who have stuck with him through every turn in his career, new religions, and philosophies.

I enjoy the bootlegs more than the official releases, however I will buy just about anything he puts regardless of feedback from press or others.

aalloca said:

Prince has engineers.

Engineers, band members, friends, dancers, a scores of women he's porked.

Band member/Engineer/Dancer/Friend takes tape home to listen to it/is in studio alone - copies it.

Prince gives tape to lady friend in order to get in her knickers "I wrote this song for you"/"I can make you a star"

Above people, for whatever reason, financial, revenge, kudos - they copy or sell them on to someone, who is either a collector who has chanced upon them, or is a friend, who passes them on to a friend, who is a collector etc, etc.

Collector trades with other collector, who sells them onto bootleggers.

Somewhere down the line, once or more than once - the track is edited, dirtied up, clipped, tempo-changed - in order to "tag" it, so that the person who did the 'tagging' can tell who's fucked him over if the track gets out on bootleg without them knowing/their consent.

Bootleg gets pressed up and sold - the fans buy them/acquire them, and listen to the tracks in less than stellar quality, and trade them amongst themselves.


How's that?

Nouveau,

I think both are feasible. All I know is that I love outtakes and don't mind how they get out. As long as they get out.


I still love my crystal ball/black album for last heart with a skip in it and some overdriven parts. As well as witness with the crackling to start it.

I think it gives it personality.

happy holidays.

There are just simply too many outtakes especailly from his 80s era for me to completely believe that "girlfriend / engineer leak" -view. I doubt he was always giving his latest creations to the women he was dating and they would have spread them everywhere on their behalf. And it's even harder to think that Susan Rogers et al. were complete crooks and spread Prince's music behind his back. Further on, we don't have many real outtakes from his post WB days, which is rather curious.

Therefore I must go by the "Prince did it mostly himself" -conspiracy theory!

I agree that some of them get out because of people that surround him but I do believe that Prince leaks a lot of these out himself to make himself more desirable to his fans. You always want what you're not supposed to have. I've heard the stories about "The Black Album" but I think that Prince meant for it to be an intentional bootleg album.

it's fun to think that Prince lets out bootlegs, but the only case where this might have been halfway true was the Gett Off 12" that appeared to some DJ's way back in '92. Or the odd song like Vavoom given to a radio, or that GOld ALbum radio preview way back in '94 (which had Days of Wild right?).

From what I gather, most all the bootlegs can be traced back to friends, and former employees, cassettes in cars, engineers, and hired musicians, filmmakers, video staff... etc.

The Black Album... who knows why it was really cancelled... but you can trace the copies that leaked.

vainandy said:

Agreed. Prince knows how to keep the buzz going in the street and that is by leaking a little material out there b/c it keeps his fans hooked on the product and wanting more.

Hotlegs said:

Right.

If that was the case, how come he isn't pissing out unreleased stuff through the NPGMC, the perfect outlet to "keep his fans hooked on the product" - instead, he's only releasing newly recorded material.

One out-take (Splash) in 4 years does not count.

I reckon most of you agree with me when I first suggested that Prince himself was the mastermind behind all ruff and not so ruff non-released studio material apeering all the time. If you believe this then you've also have to think that it's no coincidence that there's been almost nothing since he started the NPGMC.

I like the idea that someone put forward about the Black album being an intentional bootleg... hmmm... how interesting! Perhaps he intended it to be the ultimate bootleg ever!

Xplanet said:

And equally, if you tend towards the belief that Prince didn't mastermind this, then it's also equally no coincidence that there's been almost nothing since he started the NPGMC.

There's also no real evidence that Prince deliberately leaked the material and I've never come across even suggestions from close associates that he planned it.

On the other hand, the "engineer / girlfriend gift" explanation has at least come from sources closer to Prince than fans simply speculating on how the material emerged.
.

Prince is not 'behind the bootlegs'. This idea keeps coming up over and over,
but unfortunately there's nothing anyone can say to stop this misconception
persisting. 'How' they happen has been covered quite well in NouuveauDance's
post. In the early days Prince wasn't that careful about who he gave music to,
and it wasn't until the non-release of the Black Album in 1987 that bootlegs
of his music really started to appear. Prince has never been even remotely
behind any bootleg releases, and I have that on THE highest authority.
(Though he did turn a blind eye to it during the time he fell out with WB,
and gave a lot of material to radio stations etc, just to let us hear it).

Honestly if both boris and langebleu agree then I am convinced.( I mean that in a non-sarcatic way)

I still love the boots more than the regular releases and honestly the fact that we have not seen any leaked really de-mystifies the whole thing.

Part of the fun with Prince was/is collecting whatever you can get your hands on. Now I have never been one for collecting tons of live stuff, so studio outtakes are my bread & butter.

Either way I wish they would start to leak out again.

Xplanet said:

Non. Prince the control freak would never have done this.

Xplanet said:

Well Said.

Thanks for letting me have your ideas on this topic people. I think alot of people love a conspirecy of some form or another. I just wondered how they got out that's all. It's good that some of the more informed Prince fans let us in on what they know too.