I heard the song "Old Friends 4 Sale" was about Steve Fargnoli, Wendy Melvoin, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, and his late bodyguard Chick Huntsberry. What problem did he have with them?

OnionJuice said:

what part is about chick?

I thought it was about Chick getting into drugs and selling Prince's unreleased studio tracks.

Well, I listening to the original outtake version; not the one he re-recorded for the "The Vault..." album, which I think for outta respect of Chick's death, he changed the lyrics.


-----
Old Friends 4 Sale (Org. 1985 Version)

The sun set in the west this mornin'
4 I know, I know L.A. is callin'
Bad news, Steve said, and people are talkin'
They say your kingdom is fallin', yeah
They say U lost your fire
When another musician U hired
Little do they know, U wouldn't have passed go
Unless they could take U higher, yeah

The sun set in my heart this afternoon
4 2 friends of mine got stuck in the snow
In Uptown when winter's alarmin', oh
Cocaine becomes charmin'
But U talk about things U don't know 'bout
I know, no matter how pleasant your past was
Green and white return 2 blue
U're happy as long as your last buzz
And then U think U want something new, yeah

The sun, the sun set in my mind this evening
4 someone who said they would die 4 me
Sold some, they sold some more pictures and all my little memories
Chump change is 2 unravel the mystery, ah ha
But life is no fun, life ain't no fun without fantasy
Some things are better left unsaid
And some people are better left untrusted
Maybe, maybe, maybe it'll all make sense when I'm dead
When I'm dead

Old friends 4 sale
Get'em while the gettin' is hot
Watch out, they'll kiss U until they get what U got
And they'll show U the friends that they're not
Old friends 4 sale
-----

What was Prince's problem with Wendy, Terry and Jam?

sabaisabai said:

The "two friend of mine got stuck it the snow" are JImmy jam and terry louis who got fired for missing a plane i think....but it could be a cocain ref of course..the chick part is when chick sold some prince photos to a tabliod...."some who said he die for me" he was his bodyguard..."sold some more pictures..all my little memories..chump change..."

ahh...the good old days...when prince songs had meaning
[Edited 12/7/04 23:50pm]

emesem said:

Of course, a song like "Dear Mr. Man" is devoid of any real meaning

Perhaps you mean his newer material lacks real human drama reflecting P's current personal life and interaction with members of his inner circle.

But to say his songs are lacking in "meaning" is a misconception.

.

I don't think there's anything about Wendy Melvoin in it, considering it's from 1985, when their working relationship was very much coming into full bloom.

But Chic, Morris, Vanity, St. Paul, Jesse, Andre - I guess all these people could be considered. And Jimmy/Terry has always been said to be the 'stuck in the snow line' (although, snow could just be a metaphor for cocaine, which the next line of the song continues, so maybe it's not about Jimmy/Terry after all.

But Chic, Morris, Vanity, St. Paul, Jesse, Andre - I guess all these people could be considered. And Jimmy/Terry has always been said to be the 'stuck in the snow line' (although, snow could just be a metaphor for cocaine, which the next line of the song continues, so maybe it's not about Jimmy/Terry after all.[/quote]


yeah i know what you mean, i think it could be a double meaning, the stuck in the snow line is so relatable to jimmy jam and terry lewis i'd be surprised if prince himself didn't realise when we wrote it. on the other hand maybe he did so that when people heard it they thought he was singing about JJ and TL but then the coke line made it obvious he wasn't. he may have been playing about with words. who knows?

i like the thought of him lamenting the firing of JJ and TL though, just wonder what would have happened had they stayed in the time.

Actually, he does reference Wendy:

Bad news, Steve said, and people are talkin'
They say your kingdom is fallin', yeah
They say U lost your fire
When another musician U hired
"Steve" refers to Steve Fargnoli. Supposedly Steve was telling Prince about the rumors that his career was declining. People were saying that hiring Wendy was a mistake and was going to lead to the "fall" of his "kingdom."


The sun set in my heart this afternoon
4 2 friends of mine got stuck in the snow
In Uptown when winter's alarmin', oh
Cocaine becomes charmin'
This part, as people have said, refers to people close to him becoming addicted to cocaine: Big Chick, Vanity, Morris, etc. The other story is that Jimmy and Terry literally got stuck in the snow and were late, which led to a feud between them and Prince. Myself, I go with the double meaning theory: I think he was talking about both that story and, figuratively, drug addiction.


I know, no matter how pleasant your past was
Green and white return 2 blue
I always liked that line: Money and coke (green and white) might make you happy ("as long as your last buzz") but you'll return to your sadness (blue) as soon as you come down...


The sun, the sun set in my mind this evening
4 someone who said they would die 4 me
Sold some, they sold some more pictures and all my little memories
...
Some things are better left unsaid
And some people are better left untrusted
This is the part that refers to Chick specifically. He got hooked on cocaine and sold some private pictures of Prince, and I think some private stories, to a tabloid to fund his addiction. So sad.
[Edited 12/8/04 8:17am]

FunkMistress said:

Boy were THEY wrong

Wendy!!!!

EverlastingNow said:

For real.

Miles, you're a dick.

EverlastingNow said:

Agreed.

Thanks FunkMistress, now I get it!

NouveauDance said:

Anytime.

OdysseyMiles said:

Thanx...I guess.

Hey, screw you guys!!
That pic was posted with the sincerest belief that this thread rocks! Seriously!
(Man, I must have really established a reputation for sarcasm on this board )

FunkMistress said:

I'll only answer to you if you use my porn name, Pete Sugarbush.

OdysseyMiles said:

That whole picture suggests sarcasm, babe. I've used that pic a few times, and only in that spirit. But maybe I'm just a sarcastic dick.

OdysseyMiles said:

Okay. And I shall be known as Cunning Linguist.

FunkMistress said:

Alright, so I'll have to find another pic that suggests a more sincere spirit of approval. That's cool. (but the man is so fat and fuuunnny.... )
But I meant it. I like this thread. Very informative. There. That's the Dan Rather version.

Yea this threads cool...and OF4S are one of my fav tunes.

I never knew that about this song! neat to know though
I like the line about the green and white retun to blue

OnionJuice said:

Its about The Time bracking up,the first part is about Prince firing Jimmy & Terry and hiring Paul Peterson (The Family),Morris and Jesse Johnson talkin' bad about Prince in interviews.The "2 friends on cocaine" are Morris and Jesse. The "someone who said thay would die for me" is Bodyguard Huntsberry. The National Enquirer money. "Old friends for sale, watch out they'll kiss (your ass) until they get what u got. And they''ll show u the friends that they're not."

This song is great in every way:the music rocks,prince's vocal performance is great..and even has a tone of cockiness ,and the lyrics can be applied to so many situations.This song is interesting time after time."Old Friends..","all day..","all my dreams","heaven",and "i wonder"....the beginnings of one FANTASTIC outtake album!!

I still think it's his best....
And 'though it might hurt,he still has to release this one!!!!
After all these years....Stiiiiil waiting...

FunkMistress said:

I dont think this is correct at all. Prince hired Wendy before he peaked. I've never heard anyone suggest he shouldn't hire her. I'm convinced that this is a reference to someone hired after Purple rain.

You have to remember that there was a massive cocaine problem amongst many of the associates and hangers on as the Purple Rain tour went on. I think this song references much of the resultant fall out.

bkw said:

The some he hired, was when Prince hired Paul Peterson (who replaced Jimmy Jam in the New Time and The Family). People were saying that hiring Paul was a mistake and he was going to lead to the "fall" of his "kingdom."

wow..thanks 4 explaining that. i've always liked that part,but i never knew what the whole green and white thing meant.

Excellent thread. Lyrical analysis topics will ALWAYS be well received.